Daisy Cutter Pale Ale

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bjacokes

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Has anyone else in the Midwest tried Half Acre's Daily Cutter PA? Haven't seen any attempts to clone it, but I love this stuff and would be interesting in making something close. Thought maybe someone has attempted this already... I'm assuming it has the usual suspects, Amarillo/Cascade/Simcoe/etc, but to me this tastes pretty distinct from most other brews using those hops. Relevant info below.

"Daisy Cutter Pale Ale is a West Coast Strong Pale Ale, focusing on the aromatic qualities of the hops. A master blend of five different hops creates a powerful nose and a dynamic flavor."

5.20% ABV
I'm guessing around 40-50 IBU (not listed online)
 
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bjacokes

bjacokes

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I got more info and gave this a shot a few months ago, although it was a fair bit off from the real thing. As a side note, I had a Daisy Cutter from the can a couple of weeks ago and it seems quite a bit hoppier than it did 12+ months ago when I first had it. In my opinion the less hoppy version was tastier, plus it was more of a hit with my non-hophead friends. Perhaps I'm making that difference up, but regardless I was shooting for what I remembered as the 12-month-ago version. Here are the numbers I was working with.

FG: Around 1.011 - 1.012 (measured)
OG: Around 1.050 - 1.052 (working backward from 5.2% ABV)
IBU: Not provided. If I had to take a wild guess I'd say 30 IBUs when I first had it and 37 IBUs now. I think I overestimated when I made my recipe.
SRM - I originally guesstimated 10 SRM, but I think it's actually closer to 7-8 SRM.
Hops: A guy at the brewery told me they use Ahtanum, Columbus, Simcoe, Amarillo, and Sterling. He hinted that they use tons of hops. Given the aroma I'd say it is mostly late+dry hopping.

Here is my recipe. I forgot to get crystal malt at the store and all I had left was a few ounces of C10L, C20L, C40L, and honey malt, so it was a bit haphazard. I also subbed Centennial for Ahtanum.

malt (1.052 OG)
75% american 2-row malt
12.5% assorted crystal malt
7.5% wheat malt
5% light munich malt

hops (40 IBU)
0.5oz each Amarillo+Simcoe FWH
0.5oz each Amarillo+Simcoe 10min
1oz each Amarillo+Sterling 1min
0.75 each Amarillo+Sterling dry hop
0.5oz Centennial dry hop
0.25oz each Simcoe+Columbus dry hop

Your choice of neutral american ale yeast

Compared to Daisy Cutter, this is a bit hoppier, too dark, too crystal-y, not quite aromatic enough, and not quite the right hop schedule. Nevertheless it's a great pale ale and people have found it plenty tasty.

After looking at the differences between mine and the real thing, I think Daisy Cutter is closer to something like Gumballhead than I had originally thought -- crisp and somewhat malty with a moderate but very aromatic hop presence. Here's some advice if you're looking to make a clone. Stay away from crystal malts; if you want them then stick with 10L and 20L in low amounts. Try some Vienna, possibly Munich, to get the color up to 8 SRM. This isn't a wheat beer but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of wheat in there to make things crisp. Keep IBUs in the low 30s and do some magic with the hops that were listed. And let me know how it goes!

-b
 

m750

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totally interested in this, and wonder if anyone has refined it.

I found another clone,
http://hopville.com/recipe/398786/american-pale-ale-recipes/daisy-cutter-clone
but don't have enough experience to compare the two. My research so far, has yielded two things. They use chicago public water, and 5 varieties of hops for Daisy cutter.
It's not available around here, but I'd like to make a batch for spring / summer.
Any further progress on this?
AO
 

amingo

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totally interested in this, and wonder if anyone has refined it.

I found another clone,
http://hopville.com/recipe/398786/american-pale-ale-recipes/daisy-cutter-clone
but don't have enough experience to compare the two. My research so far, has yielded two things. They use chicago public water, and 5 varieties of hops for Daisy cutter.
It's not available around here, but I'd like to make a batch for spring / summer.
Any further progress on this?
AO

Can't wait to try this. I'm curious about what gives Daisy Cutter its "grassy" aroma. I'm 4 kits into brewing and think it's about time to experiment a little more. I also live about a mile away from Half Acre and have the same access to Chicago water that they do.

I'll report back when I get around to it.
 

EricT

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Can't wait to try this. I'm curious about what gives Daisy Cutter its "grassy" aroma. I'm 4 kits into brewing and think it's about time to experiment a little more. I also live about a mile away from Half Acre and have the same access to Chicago water that they do.

I'll report back when I get around to it.

The grassy aroma may come from whole hops instead of pellet?
 

amingo

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EricT said:
The grassy aroma may come from whole hops instead of pellet?

Thanks EricT. Are you suggesting whole hops in dry-hopping only or throughout the brewing process?
 

Oldsock

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The grassy aroma may come from whole hops instead of pellet?

If anything I've found that pellets are grassier than whole hops. Since pellets are broken up they have more chlorophyll exposed to the wort (which I suspect is the source of that grassiness). It also may just be a bigger hop bill, and fresh beer than other pale ales.
 

amingo

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If anything I've found that pellets are grassier than whole hops. Since pellets are broken up they have more chlorophyll exposed to the wort (which I suspect is the source of that grassiness). It also may just be a bigger hop bill, and fresh beer than other pale ales.

Do you know of any hop varieties that are "grassier" than others?
 

EricT

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If anything I've found that pellets are grassier than whole hops. Since pellets are broken up they have more chlorophyll exposed to the wort (which I suspect is the source of that grassiness). It also may just be a bigger hop bill, and fresh beer than other pale ales.

Thought I read somewhere that whole hops tend to have a grassy flavor in beer. I just searched this site and it seems if you dry hop for a longer period (over 2 weeks) you can geta grassy flavor from any hop. So I guess just use whatever hop you want and dry hop it for a couple weeks :)
 

m750

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I also heard that if you first wort your hops, which for extract, doesn't meant too much, but I guess starting with them in your pot with your steeping grains maybe?
Another note, that I saw is that the brewery uses a lot of Marris Otter grain, not sure what specifically that is, sorry, I'm still green.
AO
 

Oldsock

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Thought I read somewhere that whole hops tend to have a grassy flavor in beer. I just searched this site and it seems if you dry hop for a longer period (over 2 weeks) you can geta grassy flavor from any hop. So I guess just use whatever hop you want and dry hop it for a couple weeks :)

I routinely leave whole hops bagged in kegs for a couple months without my beers getting grassy. It may be that the lower temps prevent the issue, but I suspect that it is that they are whole hops.
 

Oldsock

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Grassiness can come from leaving dry hops in for longer than the usual 7-10 days.

Have you ever had this happen, or are you just repeating something you read? If you had it happen what was the situation, how many ounces of hops, whole or pellet, what sort of beer, what was the temperature?
 

Randar

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Have you ever had this happen, or are you just repeating something you read? If you had it happen what was the situation, how many ounces of hops, whole or pellet, what sort of beer, what was the temperature?

I had it happen on a Chinook IPA that was using pellet hops. around 1.5-2 oz hops in a 5 gal batch. This was a long time ago though on a kit and I left it for close to a month when I got busy. Was still drinkable, but the grassy notes took over the beer compared to the usual pine & citrus Chinook gives. I honestly haven't left it for more than 14 days since that time, so that's my only data point.
 

Oldsock

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I had it happen on a Chinook IPA that was using pellet hops. around 1.5-2 oz hops in a 5 gal batch. This was a long time ago though on a kit and I left it for close to a month when I got busy. Was still drinkable, but the grassy notes took over the beer compared to the usual pine & citrus Chinook gives. I honestly haven't left it for more than 14 days since that time, so that's my only data point.

It seems like it is always pellet hops that cause the problem, so that is the hypothesis I'm sticking to.
 

EricT

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From Palmers How to Brew book, he says grassy flavors can come from poorly stored ingredients such as malt. Aldehydes can form in old malt and can contribute green grass flavors. Hops are another source if poorly stored or not properly dried prior to storage, the chlorophyll compounds will become evident in the beer.
 

amingo

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m750 said:
To get this back on track, has anyone had success cloning it?

Apparently not. I actually enjoy the slight grassiness in Daisy Cutter and am trying to figure out how to duplicate it.
 

PaulHilgeman

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Reviving an old thread for a worthy beer.

Just drank some, not going to formulate a recipe, but this is what I definitely think after having 3 cans of this stuff tonight.

-There is definitely wheat in the beer.
-SRM is around 6-7, definitely no higher.
-Tastes like 2-row, wheat, and some VERY light crystal malts to me, but very very little malt sweetness to it.
-Definitely finishes around 1.010, definitely not much higher
-Solid bitterness (maybe 30 IBU from a 60 minute addition), but tons of LATE hop flavor/aroma.
- Definitely has the grassiness that is discussed here.
- It definitely doenst have a dry-hopped flavor, but certainly has the aroma. I am guessing it is dry hopped for a very short time with a ton of hops. This gives a different hop flavora/aroma than the typical 10-14 day dry hop that us homebrewers do. Maybe it is something different, like a hop tea, or some other unusual hopping technique.
- Yeast is defintiely VERY clean, Lets just say it is WLP001 or WY1056

More on the hop aroma. When I crash a beer and get it nearly crystal clear before I dry hop it, I get a really nice sweet hop flavor andthe citrus and sweet hop aromas really come through, but it takes at least 1-2 weeks for this to happen.

When I dry hop when the yeast is still in suspension, or without crashing or gelatian, I get a rougher, grassier, more bitter, less sweeet contribution, but it takes more hops to do this, and overall it is has less flavor, especially after the yeast drops out.
 

bossbrews

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I also notice a very almost cereal-like after taste in there. Reminds me of the torrified wheat I used in recent attempt at a Gumball Head clone. Not totally sure however.
 

olsond

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Paul -
Did you brew one yet? Have you formulated a recipe? Love this beer and love this brewery.
 

MattCinatl

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I get a ton of Simcoe out of Daisy Cutter. I'd go real heavy on Simcoe in the dry hop. One of the dankest beers I've ever had.
 

skibb

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Has anyone tried emailing the brewer? Some of the time you will be pleasantly surprised by their response!
 

OutsidersAl

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i think you guys want to work some Victory in there. how much? not terribly sure, but probably more than you might think.
 

NorthSide

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anyone end up having success with this one? 2-row, crystal 20, victory, wheat? columbus, ahtnum, amarillo, simcoe. anything i'm missing?
 

NorthSide

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brewed an attempt last tuesday, here's what i used:
10 lb 2-row
.5 lb crystal 20L
1 lb victory malt
1 lb torrified wheat

.75 oz columbus 60 min
.5 ahtanum 15
.25 columbus 12
.5 centennial 10
.5 amarillo 8
.5 simcoe 6
1 columbus FO

us-05 yeast.

gonna dry hop with .5 amarillo, .5 simcoe, .5 ahtanum, .5 centennial, and 1 columbus.

tasted a sample after 6 days in primary and it's damn close! when it's done i'll do a side by side tasting...
 

gsanstra

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Was at half acre today, checking out the store. Drink some double daisy cutter, and that was awesome. Let us know how it is working out, I would love to brew this.....
 

vespahulb

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Any word from HA about Daisy Cutter? They're usually super responsive in regards to homebrewers cloning recipes. I ran into Gabe, the founder while filling some growlers and had a good conversation with him in regards to cloning Over Ale. He had the brewer email me the recipe!
 
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