Crystal Clear Wort May Not Be Desireable

[waddsworth]

So here's the deal. A month and a half ago I brewed a 10 gallon batch of my modified Sculpin clone (modified the hops to accommodate my stock). After a good chill with my immersion chiller I began to siphon from the top down. I was amazed at how clear the wort was as I filled up my first carboy (pic below) - the entire thing filled up crystal clear. However, once I switched to my second carboy and got down lower in the kettle I started to pick up some break material. Needless to say, the second carboy was very cloudy and full of break and hops matter (as most of my 5 gallon brews are anyhow). I realized that I had inadvertently presented myself with an opportunity to conduct a bit of an experiment. I marked each carboy with "cloudy" and "clear", and fermented them both with the same yeast from the same very big starter, and at the same temp. It was hard to see any difference in the speed of fermentation and both were racked at the same time to secondary and dry hopped the same.

The first noticeable difference came a few days after racking to secondary. The half that was originally cloudy had begun to clear out more than the one that was originally clear. I hadn't expected that. In fact, the one that was originally clear never caught up to the other in terms of clarity and brightness. Come bottling day I ended up bottling the half that was originally clear and kegged the other half. Just to make sure I'd be able to test the two with all things being equall - I bottled two from the keg using priming sugar added directly to the bottles and a homemade bottling gun (thanks Bobby!), and marked the bottles.

Before doing my ultimate test, I could already tell that the beer from the keg (originally cloudy) was far more enjoyable than what was in the bottles. That was disapointing, because I bottled half for the explicit purpose of bringing a case with me camping to share. Anywho, this past weekend, during a brew day with some friends, I did a side-by-side with the bottles. The originally cloudy brew was a unanimous winner. Appearance, aroma, and flavor were all clearly (oh yeah, that's a pun) superior. So, for now at least, I'm not worried about removing the break. Of course, this has to be repeatable to be proven, so I see a bunch more 10 gallon batches in my future - with updates to follow, of course.

Anyone else see similar results?

 

[bigbeergeek]

Very interesting, great post. I've never done a side by side experiment with break material as you describe (I chill with a CF chiller), but I never skim the hot break from my dark (ie stouts) or cloudy (wits) beers, just in case I might see benefits in body, head retention, etc.

 

[Kaz]

I haven't tried the experiment, but I do remember reading or hearing that there are proteins and compounds in break material that yeast can/will use as food. So it is completely understandable the difference you are tasting. I don't worry that much about getting break material in the carboy, a good long 4 weeks in the primary usually lets everything settle out and then the 2-3 weeks it sits in the fridge while carbing settles everything else. If one had a need to 'fast track' a beer, keeping most of the break material out may get them a clearer beer in less time, but as you've found, it may not be the same beer.

 

[Golddiggie]

A good reason to use a kettle with a ball valve to get your chilled wort into primary. I've never attempted to get clear wort from the kettle, just get as much of it into primary as possible. Using hop bags helps reduce the hop matter going into primary, but otherwise everyone goes into the pool. I only used a siphon with a few batches, before I modified the pot into a kettle. That was only to make the transfer easier, not in an attempt to leave the break material behind.

Your test does provide solid reasons for not leaving the break material behind. IMO, get as much of the wort into your fermenter as will fit and don't worry about it. Obviously, as many already know, given the right amount of time, and conditions, the wort will become clear brew...

 

[wilserbrewer]

Great to hear...as I have alway wondered about my "ferment it all in the kettle" method. (yes hops and all). Doesn't get any easier.

 

[jfrank85]

Ok that all sounds good but what about long term stability? I understand a moderate abv beer would be consumed fairly quickly but what about the affects on storing a beer?

 

[Hermit]

I'll take this one step further. I'm thinking about to from 3 gallon stove top batches to 5 gallons and wondering if I really ant to get away from BIAB because of the 'extras' that end up in the boil. I have only done ales and they aren't "crystal" clear but they drop clear enough. I prefer the darker ales anyhow so this might be playing into my reasoning. I suppose I could be limiting myself with other styles.

 

[Kaz]

I do BIAB and keg my beers. I'm still surprised at how clear they come out. I did an American Wheat that ended up with about 4" of junk in the bottom of the fermenter when I transferred, and it was still crystal clear...and delicious.

 

[waddsworth]

Ok that all sounds good but what about long term stability? I understand a moderate abv beer would be consumed fairly quickly but what about the affects on storing a beer?

Well, if it's better in the short term, than it should probably be fine long term. That'd be my guess.

 

[waddsworth]

I'll take this one step further. I'm thinking about to from 3 gallon stove top batches to 5 gallons and wondering if I really ant to get away from BIAB because of the 'extras' that end up in the boil. I have only done ales and they aren't "crystal" clear but they drop clear enough. I prefer the darker ales anyhow so this might be playing into my reasoning. I suppose I could be limiting myself with other styles.

I imagine that in the interim, you'd be doing a BIAB-partial mash to get your five gallons? I'm not super familiar with BIAB... What extras are you concerned with?

 

[dwarven_stout]

Guy in my club did basically this experiment with an ESB, then had 3 BJCP judges from the club triangle-taste the two beers. 2 of 3 three, irrc, identified that they were different and that the "clear" one was better, but the differed in their perceptions of the "cloudy" beer.

 

[Vance71975]

I have personally never tried to remove the break material, i read in one of my many books(Fix's Book i believe Principles of Brewing Science) that it provides nutrition to the yeast, so i just let if go and i must say i have had some beers that i found to be amazing. I also never try to get my beers super clear, i like the nutrition i get from the yeast still in the beer. Yeast is a great source of Vitamins and minerals for us. But Fix also States that it can effect long term storage of beers.

 

[Vance71975]

Ok that all sounds good but what about long term stability? I understand a moderate abv beer would be consumed fairly quickly but what about the affects on storing a beer?

In Fix's Book(Principles of Brewing Science) he said that is why pros go to such an extent to filter and remove break, it is great for the yeast but it can effect long term storage of the beer.

 

[passedpawn]

Excellent write-up. Thanks for taking the time to do this experiment. You're gonna make a lot of whirlpool-handicapped brewers happy. (me)

 

[waddsworth]

In Fix's Book(Principles of Brewing Science) he said that is why pros go to such an extent to filter and remove break, it is great for the yeast but it can effect long term storage of the beer.

Is that if it gets into the bottle? Or just if it gets into the fermenter?

 

[Vance71975]

Is that if it gets into the bottle? Or just if it gets into the fermenter?

Well the problem is that, the yeast doesn't use all of it, there is always going to be some components that go into the beer. Which can lead to stability issues in an extended aging. So on a barley wine, you would want to keep trub out as much as you can, but on a 5% or less beer that will be drank fast its not much of an issue.

 

[waddsworth]

Well the problem is that, the yeast doesn't use all of it, there is always going to be some components that go into the beer. Which can lead to stability issues in an extended aging. So on a barley wine, you would want to keep trub out as much as you can, but on a 5% or less beer that will be drank fast its not much of an issue.

I think a thorough cold crashing can probably remedy that.

 

[Hermit]

I think a thorough cold crashing can probably remedy that.

I now work out of town so I brew on weekends. My 'normal' beers get one week at whatever the fermentation temp I choose, a week at 75 to finish up and a week of cold crashing at 0F before bottling. I just started this so I don't know what effects it will have yet.

 

[Hermit]

I imagine that in the interim, you'd be doing a BIAB-partial mash to get your five gallons? I'm not super familiar with BIAB... What extras are you concerned with?

With BIAB you don't filter the wort through the grain bed so you get 'material'. That gets boiled. Kind of like a mini decoction in a way.

 

[Vance71975]

I think a thorough cold crashing can probably remedy that.

On that one i dont know, i never cold crash my beers, because i simply do not worry about clarity.

 

[waddsworth]

I think I'm getting ready for a Friday brew day with a 10 gallon batch of American Pale Wheat. I'll take pics and keep log going.