Creature Comforts Tropicalia Clone

[skeezerpleezer]

Thanks for breaking down those ratios from the podcast



Do you think adding some cara-pils would help with the mouth feel a little bit?



Heres what i built in brewsmith2 for my 3.80 gallon brew (i cant boil more than 5 gallons)...



Tropiclonia



M.I.A.B. (Mash in a bag in a cooler) - 65-70 efficiency

Mash @ 150f - 60mins

Batch Sparge @ 170f - 10mins



1tbsp - PH 5.2

7lbs Pale 2 row - 78.9%

12oz Crystal 20 - 8.5%

12oz Cara-Pils - 8.5%

6oz Flaked Wheat - 4.2%



Boil

60mins



.5oz Warrior - 60mins - 31.5ibus

.2tsp Irish Moss - 10mins



Hopstand/Steep

Adding the hops just after flameout and going to ice bath and slow cool for 30mins-45mins before i whirlpool and transfer to a cold kettle to continue cooling.



.75oz Centennial - Steep/Whirlpool- 12.1ibus

.75oz Citra - Steep/Whirlpool- 14.5ibus

.25oz Galaxy Steep/Whirlpool- 5.7ibus



Fermentation



1 Smack Pack 1968 London ESB



4.3 gallons into my carboy for 2wks at 68-70f



Dryhopin the secondary for 3-4 days with the same amount of steeping hops at the 1 week mark.



Let me know what you think.



I see your in alpharetta. Thats not to far away from Dublin so maybe ill send you one

I would say decrease crystal malts by about 13-14% and increase the late hops.

 

[clint404]

I emailed Blake at CC today and he confirmed that both crystal and wheat are in the beer at small amounts.

Beer smith gives those IBU values for the hops at the end based on a 30min steep time. The water will be 175-200 degrees for at least 30mins so that should impart the flavor and aroma I'm looking for. Tropicalia is 65ibus.

With the ESB and keg carbonation this beer will be ready to drink in 2.5-3weeks and if something needs to change it will. This is just my jumping off point.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I emailed Blake at CC today and he confirmed that both crystal and wheat are in the beer at small amounts.



Beer smith gives those IBU values for the hops at the end based on a 30min steep time. The water will be 175-200 degrees for at least 30mins so that should impart the flavor and aroma I'm looking for. Tropicalia is 65ibus.



With the ESB and keg carbonation this beer will be ready to drink in 2.5-3weeks and if something needs to change it will. This is just my jumping off point.

I don't think you'd get those IBUs from the whirlpool/steeping hops, but I could be wrong. Trop isn't really bitter anyway, so may be fine. 1.75oz is pretty light for flameout/whirlpool IMO, I'd at least double that, if not more.

17% isn't a small amount of crystal malts, that's why I said I'd scale that back in my last post.

 

[clint404]

The cara pils is there for body. It's barely a crystal malt at all.

I'm pretty sure putting in those high alpha hops at near boiling for 30mins is gonna bring the IBUs up to the 60+ I'm looking for. The warrior gives it 30 alone.

As I said Tropicalia is a 65 IBU beer and creature comforts do one bittering hop and whirlpool and dry hops.

BTW this isn't a 5 gallon batch. The boil is 5.2g and bottling is just under 4g.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

The cara pils is there for body. It's barely a crystal malt at all.

I'm pretty sure putting in those high alpha hops at near boiling for 30mins is gonna bring the IBUs up to the 60+ I'm looking for. The warrior gives it 30 alone.

As I said Tropicalia is a 65 IBU beer and creature comforts do one bittering hop and whirlpool and dry hops.

BTW this isn't a 5 gallon batch. The boil is 5.2g and bottling is just under 4g.

You can certainly do as you wish; I'm sure it will make a good beer. I was just providing some of my thoughts based on the regular conversations that I have with Blake about brewing (he's a friend of mine)

 

[mbbransc]

Blake's very approachable as I've reached out to him a couple times working on a Trop recipe.

I'm brewing another Trop-ish beer on MAR12. I'm actually going to try (2) whirlpools; one at 170° and another at 140°. 3oz in the first and 6 oz in the second (10gal batch). I'm also throwing in a small 20m addition and warrior to bitter. Three separate dry hops; first as fermentation is finishing (around day 5), a second will be done with a pump for recirculation and then a third in the keg (2.5oz, 10oz, 4oz respectively). Swapped centennial for columbus and sticking with galaxy and citra for the rest.

 

[clint404]

I actually made a decision to not dry hop but instead do the same thing with 180f whirlpool addition and 140f whirlpool addition in equal parts.

 

[Doctor_M]

I actually made a decision to not dry hop but instead do the same thing with 180f whirlpool addition and 140f whirlpool addition in equal parts.

Why?

I've only had this beer one time (matter of fact it was @skeezerpleezer who gave it to me during DLD weekend) but I just can't see this beer not being dry hopped.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

It's definitely dry hopped.

 

[clint404]

Getting hop oils in before you rack to primary or during dry hop. Basically the same thing if your below isomerisation (sp) temp. Maybe up the amount on the -140f whirlpool...

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Getting hop oils in before you rack to primary or during dry hop. Basically the same thing if your below isomerisation (sp) temp. Maybe up the amount on the -140f whirlpool...

So fermentation doesn't have any effect? Seems like if a 140f whirlpool provided the same effect as dry-hopping then breweries would just do that and avoid the time and trouble of dry hopping post fermentation, sometimes multiple dry-hopping stages.

 

[Doctor_M]

Getting hop oils in before you rack to primary or during dry hop. Basically the same thing if your below isomerisation (sp) temp. Maybe up the amount on the -140f whirlpool...

No its not the same. You blow off aromatics during active fermentation. Yes I know certain well respected brewers add their First dry hop addition when primary fermentation is drawing near. I've spoken with them one on one. That's not the same as what your talking about doing.

I'm sure your beer may taste good but Tropacalia is definitely dry hopped going on nose from the can alone.

 

[clint404]

Cool. Thanks for the info guys. I may dry hop after all. Maybe I'll whirlpool addition around 150-160.

 

[Pumblechook]

Just wanted to jump in and offer a few things I learned after talking to one of the brewers.

The malt bill and yeast mentioned here are correct - CC uses pilsner as a base malt in all their beers, and Tropicalia in particular is just pilsner and a small amount of crystal and wheat. I could've sworn he said White Labs yeast (WLP013 maybe?) as their house strain, but it is definitely an ESB/London ale yeast.

As far as hops, Galaxy, Centennial, and Citra are used in BOTH the boil and dry hop. I didn't get the exact schedule, but judging by the aroma I'd guess Citra is the late addition in both the boil and dry hop. I'm going to try a clone with Galaxy as FWH, Centennial at flameout, and Citra in the whirlpool, with the same dry hopping order.

 

[skibb]

CCB is on an episode of The Session and they give quite a few details out about this beer. Like lb/bbl hops etc.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/the-session-creature-comforts-brewing-co/

 

[howephillip]

This is what info could get from Blake. I know it's vague but at least it gives you an idea of where to start.

60-65 IBU
6.6% ABV

Citra
Centennial
Galaxy - Just a little
Apollo - Small Bittering addition
Ratios are about the same from Whirlpool to Dry Hop

Amount for a Batch:
~4oz per 5gal Dry Hop
~3.2oz per 5gal Whirlpool

Grain:
Pilsner
Crystal 40
Wheat

Yeast:
1968

 

[Pumblechook]

Interesting! So with the exception of the small Apollo bittering addition, are the hops just whirlpool and dry? I wouldn't be surprised - Tropicalia has a very smooth bitterness.

Here is the recipe I'm going to try:

Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 8.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.7 IBUs

12 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 89.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
0.30 oz Apollo [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 16.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 5 18.9 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 6 22.6 IBUs
0.20 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 7 3.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124. Yeast 8 -
1.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Interesting! So with the exception of the small Apollo bittering addition, are the hops just whirlpool and dry? I wouldn't be surprised - Tropicalia has a very smooth bitterness.

Here is the recipe I'm going to try:

Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 8.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.7 IBUs

12 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 89.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
0.30 oz Apollo [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 16.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 5 18.9 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 6 22.6 IBUs
0.20 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 7 3.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124. Yeast 8 -
1.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

I would scale that c40 back to a half pound or less.

 

[Doctor_M]

I would scale that c40 back to a half pound or less.

Agreed. A pound is wayyyy to much.

Anyone know if Creature comforts is on a direct fire system or do they have a boiler?

Edited to add: I forgot how dark tropicalia is. A pound is still too much but as Heath mentioned start with a half pound or a bit less.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Agreed. A pound is wayyyy to much.

Anyone know if Creature comforts is on a direct fire system or do they have a boiler?

Edited to add: I forgot how dark tropicalia is. A pound is still too much but as Heath mentioned start with a half pound or a bit less.

I would guess around 2.5-3% C40, then maybe some Munich to get a little more color as needed.

 

[howephillip]

Edited to add: I forgot how dark tropicalia is. A pound is still too much but as Heath mentioned start with a half pound or a bit less.

It's actually not that dark at all. I might try 2%
This was canned 5/10/16

 

[howephillip]

Interesting! So with the exception of the small Apollo bittering addition, are the hops just whirlpool and dry? I wouldn't be surprised - Tropicalia has a very smooth bitterness.

Here is the recipe I'm going to try:

Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 8.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.7 IBUs

12 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 89.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
0.30 oz Apollo [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 16.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 5 18.9 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 6 22.6 IBUs
0.20 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 7 3.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124. Yeast 8 -
1.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

Definitely let us know how it goes! I am going to do a similar recipe but will substitute the wheat for light munich since I have so much. Also, I will probably do about 5oz of C40.

 

[tadkays]

I think the magic in this beer is the water chemistry and I suspect it is a more attenuative yeast than 1968 ESB.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I think the magic in this beer is the water chemistry and I suspect it is a more attenuative yeast than 1968 ESB.

The yeast is definitely 1968. For water, I wouldn't go sulfite levels of west coast style IPA, but less chloride than east coast style.

 

[Pumblechook]

I also specifically asked about the water, and the brewer said they just carbon filter, no amendments.

 

[tadkays]

Should we all brew one and enter it in the Macon homebrew competition? Entries due 7/15.

 

[howephillip]

I also specifically asked about the water, and the brewer said they just carbon filter, no amendments.

Correct! There's nothing they do to the water. They have old concrete pipes that fees the brewery and get natural amendments through the pipe.

 

[Wduncan1983]

Brewed this today off of the video with Brian Beauchamp from CC.

http://youtu.be/G99yr7VC2Ec

OG = 1.056
FG = 1.010

5.5 gallon

GRAINS
13lbs - Pilsner Malt
1lbs - White Wheat Malt
.5lbs - Crystal 20

Mash
@ 150

HOPS
.5oz Centennial @ 10
.5oz Galaxy @ 10
.5oz Citra @ 10

2oz Citra @ 180° for 20 min
1oz Galaxy @ 180° for 20 min
1oz Cenntenial @ 180° for 20 min

Yeast - was supposed to use 1968 but received 1318 in the mail


Plan to dry hop aggressively with citra being dominant

 

[tadkays]

Looks good to me! Did you add CaCl2?

 

[Wduncan1983]

I didn't. I'm new to brewing salts but plan to on the next go around.

 

[optimal_pizza]

How did this turn out?

Brewed this today off of the video with Brian Beauchamp from CC.

http://youtu.be/G99yr7VC2Ec

OG = 1.056
FG = 1.010

5.5 gallon

GRAINS
13lbs - Pilsner Malt
1lbs - White Wheat Malt
.5lbs - Crystal 20

Mash
@ 150

HOPS
.5oz Centennial @ 10
.5oz Galaxy @ 10
.5oz Citra @ 10

2oz Citra @ 180° for 20 min
1oz Galaxy @ 180° for 20 min
1oz Cenntenial @ 180° for 20 min

Yeast - was supposed to use 1968 but received 1318 in the mail


Plan to dry hop aggressively with citra being dominant

 

[Wduncan1983]

This turned out very close to Tropicalia. Color was spot on. Bitterness was close as well. Might whirlpool at 160 to drop the bitterness down a small amount. The main difference was a noticeable Pineapple aroma. I'm going to add to the citra dry hop and reduce galaxy and centennial. Also plan to cut the wheat in half to help remove some of the haze. 1318 worked out just fine but I will switch to 1968 now that I have it on hand. Overall, I'm happy how this turned out and will probably be a recipe I brew consistently.

 

[tadkays]

Nice report! Glad it turned out well for you. Cheers.

 

[grahamfw]

What kind of dry hop schedule and amounts have you guys done?

 

[Troger11]

Just ordered the ingredient for this. Gonna give it a try as well. I'll take your recommendation and possibly half the wheat. What did you do for dry hopping? I ordered 8oz of citra so I'd have plenty left for dry hopping. I was thinking starting with 2oz citra dry hopped when fermentation is close to complete. Any new suggestions?

 

[couchsending]

Revisiting this thread after listening to the CC guys on a few podcasts recently. Must say I love their brand, their transparency, etc. Never had their beers but hopefully one of these days...

A few things I would say that I gathered from listening to them is:

They don't add any Gypsum but they did say they add some salts and they're not the normal ones. Not 100% sure but I would lean toward maybe some Epsom salt to get some
sulfates but also plenty of Magnesium.

Supposedly Trop is out of the brewery in like 13 days. Pitch at 62, first few days at 64 then slowly rise to 68 or 70. Can't remember which temp he said they try to never get the yeast above, believe it was 70. Haven't used 1968 before but everything I've read makes it sound like it can throw a ton of Diacetyl and it floccs like crazy. I would bet that they're rousing the yeast along the way to get some better attenuation out of it.


They then drop/harvest the yeast and add dry hops. Sounds like the Galaxy addition is a fairly small amount in relation to the Citra/Centennial. They recirculate the hops for two days at temps above 70. I believe Adam said you get less vegetal peoperties at those temps. Since most of us can't recirculate hops I would say contact time would have to be closer to 4 days.

So no dry hopping during fermentation, only hop once FG is reached.

Where does everyone get these whirlpool temps of 180 or 140? On a 30bbl scale it would take them forever to get wort down to 180 as it doesn't run through any heat exchanger from the kettle to the whirlpool. The risk of DMS reforming (especially with Pilsner Malt they use) would be way to high to be worth the risk. I really wonder what temp these guys actually whirlpool at. I have a good friend who is head brewer at a place with a 30 barrel system and the lowest he's ever recorded the whirlpool temp is 193... and they're at elevation so their boiling temp is lower than 212.

 

[Wduncan1983]

A few things I would say that I gathered from listening to them is:

They don't add any Gypsum but they did say they add some salts and they're not the normal ones. Not 100% sure but I would lean toward maybe some Epsom salt to get some
sulfates but also plenty of Magnesium.

Supposedly Trop is out of the brewery in like 13 days. Pitch at 62, first few days at 64 then slowly rise to 68 or 70. Can't remember which temp he said they try to never get the yeast above, believe it was 70. Haven't used 1968 before but everything I've read makes it sound like it can throw a ton of Diacetyl and it floccs like crazy. I would bet that they're rousing the yeast along the way to get some better attenuation out of it.


They then drop/harvest the yeast and add dry hops. Sounds like the Galaxy addition is a fairly small amount in relation to the Citra/Centennial. They recirculate the hops for two days at temps above 70. I believe Adam said you get less vegetal peoperties at those temps. Since most of us can't recirculate hops I would say contact time would have to be closer to 4 days.

So no dry hopping during fermentation, only hop once FG is reached.

Where does everyone get these whirlpool temps of 180 or 140? On a 30bbl scale it would take them forever to get wort down to 180 as it doesn't run through any heat exchanger from the kettle to the whirlpool. The risk of DMS reforming (especially with Pilsner Malt they use) would be way to high to be worth the risk. I really wonder what temp these guys actually whirlpool at. I have a good friend who is head brewer at a place with a 30 barrel system and the lowest he's ever recorded the whirlpool temp is 193... and they're at elevation so their boiling temp is lower than 212.

Interesting they don't use gypsum. 1968 is an animal. I'm usually close to FG within 3-4 days max. I'm usually raising the temps to 71 by day 7 for the Diacetyl rest and dry hop around day 9-12/14 depending on when I have time to rack. I will try the higher temp dry hop on my next attempt. I usually give the carboys a spin twice a day to get the hops as much contact as possible. In reference to the whirlpool at 180-160, I picked this up from another homebrewer and never had an issue with DMS. I'm guessing that's because I boil for 90 minutes and eliminate the majority of it. I only whirlpool for 20 minutes as well so it's not a long time to create DMS.

I wasn't aware that they recirculated the dry hop for 2 days. I'm guessing that is how they get that crazy hop flavor.

 

[tomhunter]

I live in Atlanta and drink a lot of Tropicalia.
Here's my latest recipe for Tropicalia based on an interview with the brewer, some additional research, and side by side tastings:

5.5 Gallons - batch sparged OG: 1.072
Grains:
13 lbs German Pilsner 2 Row (2.0 SRM)
1 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 10L (10.0 SRM)
8 oz Car-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
4 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM)
Mash at 156 for 60 minutes

Boil/Steep Hops:
.50 oz Centennial 10% 1st wort 60 minutes
1/2 tablet of whirlfloc at 10 minutes
3.00 oz Citra 12% at flame out & steep/whirlpool 20 minutes at 180-185F
.50 oz Galaxy 14% at flame out & steep/whirlpool 20 minutes at 180-185F

Yeast:
1 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968)

Dry Hops
3 oz Citra 12% Dry Hop 3 days in primary starting when krausen falls
.5 oz Galaxy 14% Dry Hop 3 days in primary starting when krausen falls

Crash cool in primary for 2 days and then keg and carbonate

Note, if you want really clear ale, you need to maintain the steep/whirlpool temp at 180-185 F for 20 minutes and then drop it as quickly as possible - or just add dissolved gelatin before kegging.

 

[tomhunter]

I live in Atlanta and drink a lot of Tropicalia.
Here's my latest recipe for Tropicalia based on an interview with the brewer, some additional research, and side by side tastings:

5.5 Gallons - batch sparged OG: 1.072
Grains:
13 lbs German Pilsner 2 Row (2.0 SRM)
1 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 10L (10.0 SRM)
8 oz Car-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
4 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM)
Mash at 156 for 60 minutes

Boil/Steep Hops:
.50 oz Centennial 10% 1st wort 60 minutes
1/2 tablet of whirlfloc at 10 minutes
3.00 oz Citra 12% at flame out & steep/whirlpool 20 minutes at 180-185F
.50 oz Galaxy 14% at flame out & steep/whirlpool 20 minutes at 180-185F

Yeast:
1 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968)

Dry Hops
3 oz Citra 12% Dry Hop 3 days in primary starting when krausen falls
.5 oz Galaxy 14% Dry Hop 3 days in primary starting when krausen falls

Crash cool in primary for 2 days and then keg and carbonate

Note, if you want really clear ale, you need to maintain the steep/whirlpool temp at 180-185 F for 20 minutes and then drop it as quickly as possible - or just add dissolved gelatin before kegging.

Here is a link to a podcast with Adam Beauchamp where he discusses the recipe:


Update:
Notes from peer side by side comparisons. (Amazing how much more you can taste and smell when both beers warm up and go slightly flat.)
Color: Recipe is very slightly darker than Tropicalia. Tropicalia is slightly more hazy.
Head: Tropicalia has more head and better retention than this recipe
Mouthfeel: Topicalia is a bit thinner and slightly more acidic
Malt: Tropicalia is less malty - it may not have any crystal at all.
Flavor hops: Tropicalia has more hop taste, mainly citra. Thinking about adding appollo or upping the centennial to see if the citra/centennial combo produces more pineapple.
Nose: Tropcalia has more hop aroma. Mainly citra. Will whirlpool longer next batch. And increase dry hops.

Thoughts for next batch: Cut back or eliminate Crystal 10. Add 8 oz of torrified wheat. Increase whirlpool time. Shoot for 175-180F - 45 minutes. Increase dry hops to 4.5 oz. Possibly replace Centennial in boil with Apollo.
I am working on a revised recipe and will post it for anyone who is interested.

Tropicalia is truly a great beer. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I'd swap that pound of Crystal 10 and half pound of Carapils out for about 5-6oz of Crystal 40/45. It might have a little munich in there also. I'd guess Trop has around 2.75-3#/bbl of hops, so I'd say your ~3oz at flameout is good, and dryhop should be around 4.25oz.