Creature Comforts Tropicalia Clone

[howephillip]

Edited to add: I forgot how dark tropicalia is. A pound is still too much but as Heath mentioned start with a half pound or a bit less.

It's actually not that dark at all. I might try 2%
This was canned 5/10/16

 

[howephillip]

Interesting! So with the exception of the small Apollo bittering addition, are the hops just whirlpool and dry? I wouldn't be surprised - Tropicalia has a very smooth bitterness.

Here is the recipe I'm going to try:

Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 8.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.7 IBUs

12 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 89.3 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.1 %
8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
0.30 oz Apollo [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 16.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 5 18.9 IBUs
1.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 6 22.6 IBUs
0.20 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 Hop 7 3.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124. Yeast 8 -
1.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

Definitely let us know how it goes! I am going to do a similar recipe but will substitute the wheat for light munich since I have so much. Also, I will probably do about 5oz of C40.

 

[tadkays]

I think the magic in this beer is the water chemistry and I suspect it is a more attenuative yeast than 1968 ESB.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I think the magic in this beer is the water chemistry and I suspect it is a more attenuative yeast than 1968 ESB.

The yeast is definitely 1968. For water, I wouldn't go sulfite levels of west coast style IPA, but less chloride than east coast style.

 

[Pumblechook]

I also specifically asked about the water, and the brewer said they just carbon filter, no amendments.

 

[tadkays]

Should we all brew one and enter it in the Macon homebrew competition? Entries due 7/15.

 

[howephillip]

I also specifically asked about the water, and the brewer said they just carbon filter, no amendments.

Correct! There's nothing they do to the water. They have old concrete pipes that fees the brewery and get natural amendments through the pipe.

 

[Wduncan1983]

Brewed this today off of the video with Brian Beauchamp from CC.

http://youtu.be/G99yr7VC2Ec

OG = 1.056
FG = 1.010

5.5 gallon

GRAINS
13lbs - Pilsner Malt
1lbs - White Wheat Malt
.5lbs - Crystal 20

Mash
@ 150

HOPS
.5oz Centennial @ 10
.5oz Galaxy @ 10
.5oz Citra @ 10

2oz Citra @ 180° for 20 min
1oz Galaxy @ 180° for 20 min
1oz Cenntenial @ 180° for 20 min

Yeast - was supposed to use 1968 but received 1318 in the mail


Plan to dry hop aggressively with citra being dominant

 

[tadkays]

Looks good to me! Did you add CaCl2?

 

[Wduncan1983]

I didn't. I'm new to brewing salts but plan to on the next go around.

 

[optimal_pizza]

How did this turn out?

Brewed this today off of the video with Brian Beauchamp from CC.

http://youtu.be/G99yr7VC2Ec

OG = 1.056
FG = 1.010

5.5 gallon

GRAINS
13lbs - Pilsner Malt
1lbs - White Wheat Malt
.5lbs - Crystal 20

Mash
@ 150

HOPS
.5oz Centennial @ 10
.5oz Galaxy @ 10
.5oz Citra @ 10

2oz Citra @ 180° for 20 min
1oz Galaxy @ 180° for 20 min
1oz Cenntenial @ 180° for 20 min

Yeast - was supposed to use 1968 but received 1318 in the mail


Plan to dry hop aggressively with citra being dominant

 

[Wduncan1983]

This turned out very close to Tropicalia. Color was spot on. Bitterness was close as well. Might whirlpool at 160 to drop the bitterness down a small amount. The main difference was a noticeable Pineapple aroma. I'm going to add to the citra dry hop and reduce galaxy and centennial. Also plan to cut the wheat in half to help remove some of the haze. 1318 worked out just fine but I will switch to 1968 now that I have it on hand. Overall, I'm happy how this turned out and will probably be a recipe I brew consistently.

 

[tadkays]

Nice report! Glad it turned out well for you. Cheers.

 

[grahamfw]

What kind of dry hop schedule and amounts have you guys done?

 

[Troger11]

Just ordered the ingredient for this. Gonna give it a try as well. I'll take your recommendation and possibly half the wheat. What did you do for dry hopping? I ordered 8oz of citra so I'd have plenty left for dry hopping. I was thinking starting with 2oz citra dry hopped when fermentation is close to complete. Any new suggestions?

 

[couchsending]

Revisiting this thread after listening to the CC guys on a few podcasts recently. Must say I love their brand, their transparency, etc. Never had their beers but hopefully one of these days...

A few things I would say that I gathered from listening to them is:

They don't add any Gypsum but they did say they add some salts and they're not the normal ones. Not 100% sure but I would lean toward maybe some Epsom salt to get some
sulfates but also plenty of Magnesium.

Supposedly Trop is out of the brewery in like 13 days. Pitch at 62, first few days at 64 then slowly rise to 68 or 70. Can't remember which temp he said they try to never get the yeast above, believe it was 70. Haven't used 1968 before but everything I've read makes it sound like it can throw a ton of Diacetyl and it floccs like crazy. I would bet that they're rousing the yeast along the way to get some better attenuation out of it.


They then drop/harvest the yeast and add dry hops. Sounds like the Galaxy addition is a fairly small amount in relation to the Citra/Centennial. They recirculate the hops for two days at temps above 70. I believe Adam said you get less vegetal peoperties at those temps. Since most of us can't recirculate hops I would say contact time would have to be closer to 4 days.

So no dry hopping during fermentation, only hop once FG is reached.

Where does everyone get these whirlpool temps of 180 or 140? On a 30bbl scale it would take them forever to get wort down to 180 as it doesn't run through any heat exchanger from the kettle to the whirlpool. The risk of DMS reforming (especially with Pilsner Malt they use) would be way to high to be worth the risk. I really wonder what temp these guys actually whirlpool at. I have a good friend who is head brewer at a place with a 30 barrel system and the lowest he's ever recorded the whirlpool temp is 193... and they're at elevation so their boiling temp is lower than 212.

 

[Wduncan1983]

A few things I would say that I gathered from listening to them is:

They don't add any Gypsum but they did say they add some salts and they're not the normal ones. Not 100% sure but I would lean toward maybe some Epsom salt to get some
sulfates but also plenty of Magnesium.

Supposedly Trop is out of the brewery in like 13 days. Pitch at 62, first few days at 64 then slowly rise to 68 or 70. Can't remember which temp he said they try to never get the yeast above, believe it was 70. Haven't used 1968 before but everything I've read makes it sound like it can throw a ton of Diacetyl and it floccs like crazy. I would bet that they're rousing the yeast along the way to get some better attenuation out of it.


They then drop/harvest the yeast and add dry hops. Sounds like the Galaxy addition is a fairly small amount in relation to the Citra/Centennial. They recirculate the hops for two days at temps above 70. I believe Adam said you get less vegetal peoperties at those temps. Since most of us can't recirculate hops I would say contact time would have to be closer to 4 days.

So no dry hopping during fermentation, only hop once FG is reached.

Where does everyone get these whirlpool temps of 180 or 140? On a 30bbl scale it would take them forever to get wort down to 180 as it doesn't run through any heat exchanger from the kettle to the whirlpool. The risk of DMS reforming (especially with Pilsner Malt they use) would be way to high to be worth the risk. I really wonder what temp these guys actually whirlpool at. I have a good friend who is head brewer at a place with a 30 barrel system and the lowest he's ever recorded the whirlpool temp is 193... and they're at elevation so their boiling temp is lower than 212.

Interesting they don't use gypsum. 1968 is an animal. I'm usually close to FG within 3-4 days max. I'm usually raising the temps to 71 by day 7 for the Diacetyl rest and dry hop around day 9-12/14 depending on when I have time to rack. I will try the higher temp dry hop on my next attempt. I usually give the carboys a spin twice a day to get the hops as much contact as possible. In reference to the whirlpool at 180-160, I picked this up from another homebrewer and never had an issue with DMS. I'm guessing that's because I boil for 90 minutes and eliminate the majority of it. I only whirlpool for 20 minutes as well so it's not a long time to create DMS.

I wasn't aware that they recirculated the dry hop for 2 days. I'm guessing that is how they get that crazy hop flavor.

 

[tomhunter]

I live in Atlanta and drink a lot of Tropicalia.
Here's my latest recipe for Tropicalia based on an interview with the brewer, some additional research, and side by side tastings:

5.5 Gallons - batch sparged OG: 1.072
Grains:
13 lbs German Pilsner 2 Row (2.0 SRM)
1 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 10L (10.0 SRM)
8 oz Car-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
4 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM)
Mash at 156 for 60 minutes

Boil/Steep Hops:
.50 oz Centennial 10% 1st wort 60 minutes
1/2 tablet of whirlfloc at 10 minutes
3.00 oz Citra 12% at flame out & steep/whirlpool 20 minutes at 180-185F
.50 oz Galaxy 14% at flame out & steep/whirlpool 20 minutes at 180-185F

Yeast:
1 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968)

Dry Hops
3 oz Citra 12% Dry Hop 3 days in primary starting when krausen falls
.5 oz Galaxy 14% Dry Hop 3 days in primary starting when krausen falls

Crash cool in primary for 2 days and then keg and carbonate

Note, if you want really clear ale, you need to maintain the steep/whirlpool temp at 180-185 F for 20 minutes and then drop it as quickly as possible - or just add dissolved gelatin before kegging.

 

[tomhunter]

I live in Atlanta and drink a lot of Tropicalia.
Here's my latest recipe for Tropicalia based on an interview with the brewer, some additional research, and side by side tastings:

5.5 Gallons - batch sparged OG: 1.072
Grains:
13 lbs German Pilsner 2 Row (2.0 SRM)
1 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 10L (10.0 SRM)
8 oz Car-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
4 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM)
Mash at 156 for 60 minutes

Boil/Steep Hops:
.50 oz Centennial 10% 1st wort 60 minutes
1/2 tablet of whirlfloc at 10 minutes
3.00 oz Citra 12% at flame out & steep/whirlpool 20 minutes at 180-185F
.50 oz Galaxy 14% at flame out & steep/whirlpool 20 minutes at 180-185F

Yeast:
1 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968)

Dry Hops
3 oz Citra 12% Dry Hop 3 days in primary starting when krausen falls
.5 oz Galaxy 14% Dry Hop 3 days in primary starting when krausen falls

Crash cool in primary for 2 days and then keg and carbonate

Note, if you want really clear ale, you need to maintain the steep/whirlpool temp at 180-185 F for 20 minutes and then drop it as quickly as possible - or just add dissolved gelatin before kegging.

Here is a link to a podcast with Adam Beauchamp where he discusses the recipe:


Update:
Notes from peer side by side comparisons. (Amazing how much more you can taste and smell when both beers warm up and go slightly flat.)
Color: Recipe is very slightly darker than Tropicalia. Tropicalia is slightly more hazy.
Head: Tropicalia has more head and better retention than this recipe
Mouthfeel: Topicalia is a bit thinner and slightly more acidic
Malt: Tropicalia is less malty - it may not have any crystal at all.
Flavor hops: Tropicalia has more hop taste, mainly citra. Thinking about adding appollo or upping the centennial to see if the citra/centennial combo produces more pineapple.
Nose: Tropcalia has more hop aroma. Mainly citra. Will whirlpool longer next batch. And increase dry hops.

Thoughts for next batch: Cut back or eliminate Crystal 10. Add 8 oz of torrified wheat. Increase whirlpool time. Shoot for 175-180F - 45 minutes. Increase dry hops to 4.5 oz. Possibly replace Centennial in boil with Apollo.
I am working on a revised recipe and will post it for anyone who is interested.

Tropicalia is truly a great beer. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I'd swap that pound of Crystal 10 and half pound of Carapils out for about 5-6oz of Crystal 40/45. It might have a little munich in there also. I'd guess Trop has around 2.75-3#/bbl of hops, so I'd say your ~3oz at flameout is good, and dryhop should be around 4.25oz.

 

[couchsending]

After finally getting to try some Trop last night I would say this.

The floral aspect that Centennial delivers is what stood out the most. I had a really hard time picking out any Galaxy which is generally so easy to identify as it’s so potent and unique. 50/40/10 Citra centennial/Galaxy for my first guess.

I don’t believe they dry hop during fermentation. Generally with 1968/002 if you wait until after FG and D-rest it will flocc so hard the DH addition won’t add any haze and you can get very clear beer with no finings.

This wasn’t a very hop saturated beer for me. It was very well balanced and very crushable. The 3oz / 3.75 FO/DH addition seems about right. They do recirc so they are probably getting better extraction so you might need to bump
It up a little. If you’re adding that small
Of an amount with much yeast activity you will get aroma loss.

I doubt they’re whirlpooling much below 200. A: it’s very hard to get 30 BBls of beer to drop in temp without running through a heat ex and B: they said most of their IBUs are coming from the whirlpool so dump in at 200ish and let it get down to 180 over 30 minutes or so then cool.

The video cuts out but I swear it sounds like he says there is 10% Munich in Trop. You can get Trop color with probably 2% C40.

 

[bkv04fsu]

I've used a bunch of information from this thread. Worked up a Beersmith recipe. Thoughts?

 

[bkv04fsu]

Brewed recipe above this past Sunday. I hit the gravity and pitched the yeast around 66 degrees. Signs of fermentation after 10 hours. I will rack into a keg for dry hopping this Sunday (1 week after brew day). Rack to a new keg on Wednesday/Thursday and carb. I will report back with results. And I'll get some pictures to share.

Notes: I did my whirlpool between 180-176 degrees. I ended up mashing at 153 degrees. Made a yeast starter.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Brewed recipe above this past Sunday. I hit the gravity and pitched the yeast around 66 degrees. Signs of fermentation after 10 hours. I will rack into a keg for dry hopping this Sunday (1 week after brew day). Rack to a new keg on Wednesday/Thursday and carb. I will report back with results. And I'll get some pictures to share.

Notes: I did my whirlpool between 180-176 degrees. I ended up mashing at 153 degrees. Made a yeast starter.

Why not just dryhop in the primary to avoid more potential oxygen exposure?

 

[bkv04fsu]

Why not just dryhop in the primary to avoid more potential oxygen exposure?

After watching the interview/podcast posted in this thread, the brewer said they crop off the yeast/trub after 6 days. I am not able to do that. For me to get the beer off the yeast I have to transfer.

I've been using the dry hop keg method for my NEIPAs and have very good results.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

After watching the interview/podcast posted in this thread, the brewer said they crop off the yeast/trub after 6 days. I am not able to do that. For me to get the beer off the yeast I have to transfer.

I've been using the dry hop keg method for my NEIPAs and have very good results.

I imagine the reason they drop the yeast is because they can easily do that and to harvest it, but doubt impacts the final product much leaving it on another few days during dryhop. That said, If you are able to do a closed/CO2 transfer then I would not hesitate to do that. That’s how I rack, but normally just do the first dryhop in primary for my beers because i am lazy

 

[bkv04fsu]

I imagine the reason they drop the yeast is because they can easily do that and to harvest it, but doubt impacts the final product much leaving it on another few days during dryhop. That said, If you are able to do a closed/CO2 transfer then I would not hesitate to do that. That’s how I rack, but normally just do the first dryhop in primary for my beers because i am lazy

Good point. I do agree, they probably reuse the yeast. Thanks for pointing that out. I am very careful with the transfers, but I do see limiting the O2 exposure is the best practice. I may just keep it in primary.

 

[bkv04fsu]

Pretty good. Didn't clear for some reason.

I would bump the bitterness a tad. I would also dial back the whirlpool and dry hop. Maybe 2oz citra instead of 3. And .25oz galaxy instead of .5.

I messed up and kept the beer on the dry hops for a full 7 days. I got really busy. I wanted to do 2-3 days.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Pretty good. Didn't clear for some reason.

I would bump the bitterness a tad. I would also dial back the whirlpool and dry hop. Maybe 2oz citra instead of 3. And .25oz galaxy instead of .5.

I messed up and kept the beer on the dry hops for a full 7 days. I got really busy. I wanted to do 2-3 days.

Creature Comforts has a centrifuge which likely helps their clarity. I don’t think they use wheat either, so maybe drop that next time. Looks good though [emoji481]

 

[bkv04fsu]

Creature Comforts has a centrifuge which likely helps their clarity. I don’t think they use wheat either, so maybe drop that next time. Looks good though [emoji481]

Thanks for the feedback. I plan on brewing again with some tweaks. I will report back later.