Conan Yeast Experiences

[globe]

So has anyone had no krausen with conan before? MY starter had tons of krausen but the actual beer did not... I pitched at 68 and kept it there for 3 days or so. It was chugging like mad through the blow off tube but really no krausen. I took an early sample and usually i have issues reading the hydro sample because of bubbles/head but not this time.

There are a lot of hops in my recipe and oats/wheat so unless the hop oils are killing the krausen i have no idea. I am just hoping I will have some head retention in the future.

 

[ianmatth]

Conan is tart. Taste the beer you make from your starter and you will think it has lemon in it.

 

[sixxpoint]

How much heat is typically produced during active fermentation?

In other words, do you pitch this yeast at 62-63 F, or do you pitch it a few degrees shy of this target so that the bulk of the fermentation stays in this range instead of getting hotter via the heat produced by primary fermentation?

I expect fermentation to be somewhat complete in 4-5 days, at which point I will let the beer free rise to 67-68 F, and hold it here until it is time to dryhop and rack.

 

[sweetcell]

How much heat is typically produced during active fermentation?

answer will depend on the yeast strain, type of wort, aeration & nutrition, fermenter type, etc. could be negligible, could be as much as 10 degrees F (possibly more).

In other words, do you pitch this yeast at 62-63 F, or do you pitch it a few degrees shy of this target so that the bulk of the fermentation stays in this range instead of getting hotter via the heat produced by primary fermentation?

ideally you pitch at your desired fermentation temp, then use cooling to keep it there. so if you want to ferment at 63, pitch at 63 and then have methods to keep it at 63.

 

[mintyice]

Cleared Conan Wheat IPA with Nelson Sauvin and some other stuff. I wrote more about it on my blog

https://latchkeybrewing.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/serendipitous-something-slap-dashed-conan-ipa/

or

http://wp.me/p5f5aF-2k

 

[Awesome-X]

Link on your blog is broken!

 

[sweetcell]

Link on your blog is broken!

if you're referring to mintyice's blog, both links (last post, and in his sig) work fine for me.

 

[mintyice]

Link on your blog is broken!

I had someone else say that too so I don't know what's up with it. It works fine for me though?

http://wp.me/p5f5aF-2k might work too

 

[Kingbogart]

It doesn't work for me either. I click, and it goes, but then redirects to https://latchkeybrewing.wordpress.com/?p=144, with an error. Happens if I click it from inside your blog as well. The German link works the Serendipitous Slap-whatever doesn't.

 

[mintyice]

It doesn't work for me either. I click, and it goes, but then redirects to https://latchkeybrewing.wordpress.com/?p=144, with an error. Happens if I click it from inside your blog as well. The German link works the Serendipitous Slap-whatever doesn't.

No idea what's going on then. Stupid wordpress.

 

[tagz]

Cleared Conan Wheat IPA with Nelson Sauvin and some other stuff. I wrote more about it on my blog

https://latchkeybrewing.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/serendipitous-something-slap-dashed-conan-ipa/

or

http://wp.me/p5f5aF-2k

I agree with you about the one dimensional nature of Conan. It's tasty but after a few batches it got old for me.

 

[mintyice]

I'm going to give Conan one last shot with this recipe:

OG: 1.049 70% efficiency
9# 2 row
1# Pearl
1.5# Flaked oats

0.25 oz Warrior 15%AA FWH
0.5 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.9%AA 5 min
0.5 oz Buzz Bullets 11.1%AA 5 min
0.5 oz Azacca 10.3%AA 5 min
0.5 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.9%AA 20 min whirlpool @ 185F
0.5 oz Buzz Bullets 11.1%AA 20 min whirlpool @ 185F
0.5 oz Azacca 10.3%AA 20 min whirlpool @ 185F
1 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.9%AA Dry hop 4 days
1 oz Buzz Bullets 11.1%AA Dry hop 4 days
1 oz Azacca 10.3%AA Dry hop 4 days

I'm going to mess with the pitching rate of Conan and a lower starting fermentation temp. I got the scoop from a local brewery that uses Conan and they are experimenting with low pitch rate (0.5mil cells per mL per degree Plato to boost the production of esters. Start in the mid 60s and ramp up during fermentation to ~70-72.

A formula for the pitch rate is 500,000*(volume of wort in mL)*(degree plato), so for this batch 500,000*19873.4 (5.25gal)*12 plato, or ~120 Billion cells. Based on yeastcalculator.com, this is about a 400mL stirred starter. Seems low, but I'll give it a shot for beer science.

I'll see how it turns out!

 

[stpug]

Cleared Conan Wheat IPA with Nelson Sauvin and some other stuff. I wrote more about it on my blog

In your blog you indicate that you used Avangard 2-row malt, Briess Wheat Malt, and Carapils. What exact Avangard malt did you use? I ask because it looks like some beer I've been producing with Avangard Pale Ale malt. In fact, a CAP with Avangard Pale Ale and Corn came out that same basic color - which is WAYYY too dark for the lovibond/srm rating given to the malt. I've made this CAP before using a different (british) base malt and the color was straw - not dark gold/light copper. I've also experienced similar strange sweetness and fruitiness in pale beers produced with this malt. I have come to very much dislike this malt (I've used it in about 4-5 beers now) in any "pale" beer, but have found it works quite well in dark, roasty beers.

Sorry to go off topic and single you out, it's just that I have yet to find someone who has experienced the same thing as me when using Avangard Pale Ale malt. Additionally, the color contributed by the malt is more in-line with a Munich but the flavor is not. I always describe the malt as though it contains about 25% Crystal 40L due to the sweetness and color imparted by it.

 

[mintyice]

In your blog you indicate that you used Avangard 2-row malt, Briess Wheat Malt, and Carapils. What exact Avangard malt did you use? I ask because it looks like some beer I've been producing with Avangard Pale Ale malt. In fact, a CAP with Avangard Pale Ale and Corn came out that same basic color - which is WAYYY too dark for the lovibond/srm rating given to the malt. I've made this CAP before using a different (british) base malt and the color was straw - not dark gold/light copper. I've also experienced similar strange sweetness and fruitiness in pale beers produced with this malt. I have come to very much dislike this malt (I've used it in about 4-5 beers now) in any "pale" beer, but have found it works quite well in dark, roasty beers.

Sorry to go off topic and single you out, it's just that I have yet to find someone who has experienced the same thing as me when using Avangard Pale Ale malt. Additionally, the color contributed by the malt is more in-line with a Munich but the flavor is not. I always describe the malt as though it contains about 25% Crystal 40L due to the sweetness and color imparted by it.

Great question, and honestly I don't know. I bought a sack of it under the pretense that it was 2 row. I put the sack in two buckets and tossed the sack right when I got it. It didn't occur to me after that the fact that it might be pale ale malt. I also dislike it and can't wait to finish the sack and get something like Pearl instead. I also get kind of bad efficiency out of it compared to something like GWN northwest pale ale malt which I was using a lot before this.

 

[mintyice]

I'm going to give Conan one last shot with this recipe:

OG: 1.049 70% efficiency
9# 2 row
1# Pearl
1.5# Flaked oats

0.25 oz Warrior 15%AA FWH
0.5 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.9%AA 5 min
0.5 oz Buzz Bullets 11.1%AA 5 min
0.5 oz Azacca 10.3%AA 5 min
0.5 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.9%AA 20 min whirlpool @ 185F
0.5 oz Buzz Bullets 11.1%AA 20 min whirlpool @ 185F
0.5 oz Azacca 10.3%AA 20 min whirlpool @ 185F
1 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.9%AA Dry hop 4 days
1 oz Buzz Bullets 11.1%AA Dry hop 4 days
1 oz Azacca 10.3%AA Dry hop 4 days

I'm going to mess with the pitching rate of Conan and a lower starting fermentation temp. I got the scoop from a local brewery that uses Conan and they are experimenting with low pitch rate (0.5mil cells per mL per degree Plato to boost the production of esters. Start in the mid 60s and ramp up during fermentation to ~70-72.

A formula for the pitch rate is 500,000*(volume of wort in mL)*(degree plato), so for this batch 500,000*19873.4 (5.25gal)*12 plato, or ~120 Billion cells. Based on yeastcalculator.com, this is about a 400mL stirred starter. Seems low, but I'll give it a shot for beer science.

I'll see how it turns out!

Cold crashing this now and will dry hop soon. FG is 1.008. Glad this yeast is still working hard!

 

[ao125]

I used RVA's "Hoptopper" in this:
https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/single-hop-rakau-ipa-test-2

I haven't tried culturing from Heady Topper cans or the GigaYeast variant, but I'm hoping for good things.

Will let you know in two weeks how it turned out.

 

[masonsjax]

Anyone made stouts with Conan yet? I plan to try it, but have a few other batches on deck first.

 

[stpug]

Anyone made stouts with Conan yet? I plan to try it, but have a few other batches on deck first.

I had a porter made with conan at White Labs over the holidays. Very tasty and distinctly different than the other version with san diego super yeast. It was displayed as using a white labs experimental ale yeast. I talked with the server about the yeast and he said, "Have you heard of Heady Topper?" (yes) "This [experimental ale yeast] is conan yeast. They've told me that I can tell people since it WILL eventually be released." The conan porter definitely had a big fruity aspect to it that was not found in the 090 version, and it was extremely muddy looking as compared to the 090 verison.

 

[sweetcell]

I had a porter made with conan at White Labs... I talked with the server about the yeast and he said "This [experimental ale yeast] is conan yeast. They've told me that I can tell people since it WILL eventually be released."

in case anybody missed that - great news!

 

[stpug]

in case anybody missed that - great news!

Yeah, but their new packaging was supposed to be released back in October of last year. Maybe they'll have the new packaging and conan release coincide - that'd be nice!

Edit:
Experimental Ale WLP095 was the strain indicated to be Conan. And I sampled it against WLP001 (not WLP090 as I said previously).
And, from the looks of it, all white labs has been focusing on with this strain is porters and browns. Maybe they're on to something

 

[geoffey]

I can't see WL releasing a Conan strain when they currently produce it for The Yeast Bay.

 

[stpug]

I can't see WL releasing a Conan strain when they currently produce it for The Yeast Bay.

TYB purchases white labs services to bank and propagate yeast as needed for the strains that TYB banks with them. That's all on TYB what they choose culture, where they get their cultures, what they bank, and what they pay to store/propagate.

Just because I manufacture TVs for Sanyo doesn't mean it precludes me from making and selling my own TVs to the public - unless, of course, there is a no-competition contract I signed.

 

[geoffey]

TYB purchases white labs services to bank and propagate yeast as needed for the strains that TYB banks with them. That's all on TYB what they choose culture, where they get their cultures, what they bank, and what they pay to store/propagate.

Just because I manufacture TVs for Sanyo doesn't mean it precludes me from making and selling my own TVs to the public - unless, of course, there is a no-competition contract I signed.

Right. I can't imagine there isn't some kind of agreement in place that protects TYB's strains. But who knows.

 

[ao125]

Just because I manufacture TVs for Sanyo doesn't mean it precludes me from making and selling my own TVs to the public - unless, of course, there is a no-competition contract I signed.

Vizio would be skroooooooooooooooooood then. That's their whole business model.

Anyway, I was having a discussion last night with someone about yeast strains and the "rights" to them. Unless you're in a Monsanto type situation, where they genetically engineer something and have a patent on it - and then make the end user agree to certain rights and usage, I don't think there is a lot you can do to protect usage and sale of various yeast strains.

 

[tgmartin000]

Vizio would be skroooooooooooooooooood then. That's their whole business model.

Anyway, I was having a discussion last night with someone about yeast strains and the "rights" to them. Unless you're in a Monsanto type situation, where they genetically engineer something and have a patent on it - and then make the end user agree to certain rights and usage, I don't think there is a lot you can do to protect usage and sale of various yeast strains.

Shhh! Don't give Monsanto any ideas. I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[missigsfan]

I'm fermenting a PseudoSue clone of sorts with GigaYeast Vermont IPA (double pitch pack with a 1L starter) and it's the first time I haven't needed a blow off tube. It's on day two of fermentation and it seems to be pretty vigorous, I'm just worried that the blow off wasn't necessary. I have about a half gallon of headspace too which isn't out of the ordinary. The krausen hasn't gotten bigger than maybe an inch or so but it's filled with hop matter. OG was 1.066 and I've needed a blow off for less than that before.

So has anyone had no krausen with conan before? MY starter had tons of krausen but the actual beer did not... I pitched at 68 and kept it there for 3 days or so. It was chugging like mad through the blow off tube but really no krausen. I took an early sample and usually i have issues reading the hydro sample because of bubbles/head but not this time.

There are a lot of hops in my recipe and oats/wheat so unless the hop oils are killing the krausen i have no idea. I am just hoping I will have some head retention in the future.

Wow ok this sounds like the exact same thing I'm experiencing. I used wheat and oats too!

 

[ao125]

Wow ok this sounds like the exact same thing I'm experiencing. I used wheat and oats too!

This is what I had from my Oatmeal IPA

 

[missigsfan]

This is what I had from my Oatmeal IPA

Checked gravity yesterday and it's getting into the 1.010s so I guess it's just not that violent of a fermentation, but it certainly gets the job done.

 

[MeanDeuce]

Got a starter going from a 9 month old batch of conan from TYB. Had previously used it to make a HT clone in Oct'14. Turned out great.

I am hoping the 9 months in the fridge didn't mess it up too much, so far the starter seems to be happy after 24hrs, took about 12 hrs to get going.

Going to do a modified version of Oldsock's Simcoe and Sons Pale Ale.

Anything I should be worried about with this old yeast? Planning to do an additional step tomorrow night get plenty of yeast for a Saturday evening pitch.

 

[BrewCityBaller]

Got a starter going from a 9 month old batch of conan from TYB. Had previously used it to make a HT clone in Oct'14. Turned out great.

I am hoping the 9 months in the fridge didn't mess it up too much, so far the starter seems to be happy after 24hrs, took about 12 hrs to get going.

Going to do a modified version of Oldsock's Simcoe and Sons Pale Ale.

Anything I should be worried about with this old yeast? Planning to do an additional step tomorrow night get plenty of yeast for a Saturday evening pitch.

Let us know how the starter works out! I have a jar of conan from December '14 that I may want to use soon. Hopefully if yours turns out okay mine would too!