estricklin
Well-Known Member
I’ve been brewing IPLs for years, people always said things like “that just doesn’t work”, but hey they’re trendy now!
Cold IPA
- Thread starter DrGMG
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Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying it can't be a great beer and I'm not taking anything away from DrGMG. I'm just railing on the style name as an aside. The misappropriation of beer style names is just a pet peeve of mine. I had a 17 year career in tech standards and naming conventions and it's hard to shake that off.
My thoughts as well Bobby. The BJCP 21B category could get out of hand if new styles aren’t appropriately captured in the name. When I get a chance to brew this beer, it will probably be with Chico yeast, pale malt, significant flaked rice and dry with a low FG. I feel that would be in keeping with originators intentions. It would be different from an IPL, which I have never cared for.
hopjuice_71
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I agree with the objection to naming, but I just attribute to a marketing ploy to make beer look new and different. There is a brewery near me that has been making an IPA for somewhere near 5-6 years, maybe more, and because they are a German beer focused brewery make their IPA with lager yeast (and typical west coast IPA hops) at low temp fermentations. It's quite delicious, but they never called it a "Cold IPA" just a WCIPA. Actually, just looked them up and its renamed as a "Cold IPA" 
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But Bobby, isn't that same thing at the heart of IPAs in general?
A few years ago my favorite local brewery bottled an IPA (their first; they usually brew traditional European beers, with their Kolsch being one of the best I've had, outside of Koln).
I picked up a sixer expecting their expression of the "IPA" that we've all come to expect. This wasn't even close. Floral, subdued hoppiness, bitter but pleasant rather than face-plant puckery. I thought, "This tastes more like something I have on a pub crawl in London." After adjusting my glasses, I realized that the 'small print' said English style IPA.
My expectation didn't match the realization, yet it held vastly more fidelity to the true origin of IPA than anything we serve here on this side of the pond.
I brewed a Black Saison once for the novelty aspect, I used a little bit of Black Prinz, it provided minimal to none flavor contribution and was jet black.
You may be an old fart now, I know I am, hey kids get off my lawn. lol
So what should people call this beer characterized by lager grain bill/yeast and high hop-content fermented at ale temperatures?
Preferably in 3 words or less.
I get the gripes (sort of), but when someone says something like "session IPA", however technically incorrect, I know exactly what they're talking about.
Preferably in 3 words or less.
I get the gripes (sort of), but when someone says something like "session IPA", however technically incorrect, I know exactly what they're talking about.
Incorporate the word "Hazy" and it will stick. Not to mention, it matches the appearance.
Alright, I had to look it up as well. Based on the description in this article below, it is hard to differentiate from an IPL IMO. Whatever the case, hazy should not be a characteristic so scratch my sarcastic comment above. Bright and Crisp and Hoppy sound delicious. But I'll take a bit of bitterness too please.
https://www.brewer-world.com/what-is-a-cold-ipa/
https://www.brewer-world.com/what-is-a-cold-ipa/
OP
OP
Agreed, mine came out hazy for some reason...the commercial ones I've had, have been clear. I will try again, maybe crash for longer.
Seems like Cold IPA is the child of West Coast IPA and a Pilsner? Could you just use a pilsner grainbill and west coast hop schedule, then pitch a Kolsch yeast at low temps?
I get the word salad on these styles, but doesn't bother me. CDA vs BIPA when it's really a "bull **** hoppy stout" in the end. Still a good tasting beer.
I get the word salad on these styles, but doesn't bother me. CDA vs BIPA when it's really a "bull **** hoppy stout" in the end. Still a good tasting beer.
I think cold ipa = IPL for all intents and puposes.
Wayfinder (Oregon) makes a darn fine version.
I personally am so excited for Lagers to become "the next big thing" on the beer scene. I don't care what the marketing team decides to call it!!
Some darn fine breweries are making thoose ultra delicate, hard to hide errors beers.... yum.
And... if i can drop some uber pretentiousness here...
Check out Hanabi Lager from Napa CA. They are trying to do for grain (malt) what we do now for hops. Make a focus on the grain strain, where it's grown, etc. Lager is a great beer to do this. Sorry off topic just a bit...
But my point is:
I love beer
I love people that make beer
I love people that try to make new beer
I love people that only make 1 style of beer
I love people who make beer between the two (1 beer style to many new beer styles)
I look at beer names like Horse names in a race- call 'em whatever the hell you want to- it's how it performs that counts to me.
Off topic a tad, but to the OP:
I haven't made one yet. Looking forward to it soon.
In the meantime... i'm doing as much research as i can!
Wayfinder (Oregon) makes a darn fine version.
I personally am so excited for Lagers to become "the next big thing" on the beer scene. I don't care what the marketing team decides to call it!!
Some darn fine breweries are making thoose ultra delicate, hard to hide errors beers.... yum.
And... if i can drop some uber pretentiousness here...
Check out Hanabi Lager from Napa CA. They are trying to do for grain (malt) what we do now for hops. Make a focus on the grain strain, where it's grown, etc. Lager is a great beer to do this. Sorry off topic just a bit...
But my point is:
I love beer
I love people that make beer
I love people that try to make new beer
I love people that only make 1 style of beer
I love people who make beer between the two (1 beer style to many new beer styles)
I look at beer names like Horse names in a race- call 'em whatever the hell you want to- it's how it performs that counts to me.
Off topic a tad, but to the OP:
I haven't made one yet. Looking forward to it soon.
In the meantime... i'm doing as much research as i can!
American IPA was an extension of the original intent of English style IPAs. It was a decidedly more hop forward ale than anything before it. When it was Americanized, the hops got more potent but it was still pale in color and fermented with ale yeast. It wasn't filled with oxymoron like Black Pale or Lager Ale.
I have nothing against the beer itself, experimentation or pushing boundaries. I'm just calling shenanigan's on the lazy naming.
Edit- i re-read Bobby's point and realized... i was arguing the sane point! D'oh!
Makes me think of South Park and Super Troopers. Dang i am just so immature!
Edit- this is still true!
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Pretty much in agreement with everything. Just pointing out a subtle exception.
A few years back, around the time that 'Black IPA' was making its debut in the Pacific Northwest, I entered a small local BJCP sanctioned comp that was limited to IPAs. I thought I'd get 'too cute by half' and enter a Black IPA, to separate it from the crowd.
My entry got DQ'd (correctly, I might add) for not meeting the style guidelines. It did, however, get some very favorable comments from the judges who sampled it
I agree that calling it Black IPA is a stretch, but named as a new or provisional style (Cascadian Ale) is both accurate and appropriate to the region where it originated.
I had this one recently. I mean Iron Maiden, right? Really cool looking can. I have to say it was good.
I'm from Tennessee, and I agree it should've been called Cascadian Dark Ale, instead of Black IPA. I'm not irate against it being called BIPA like some of our PNW brethren were, but totally understand their angst against it. Michael Dawson referred to it as "bull **** hoppy stout" in his Mashmaker book (recommended reading if you don't have it) and too be honest, I like that best.
I've had their Trooper Ale and thought it was pretty damn good!
Now, if I can just get a few cans of Rush's new beers...............
I LOVE Iron Maiden! But The Trooper IPA had a great bottle label and the caps were arguably cooler. However the beer itself was pretty crappy, sadly...
I've had their Trooper Ale and thought it was pretty damn good!
Now, if I can just get a few cans of Rush's new beers...............
The Trooper Ale is not bad. But the Trooper IPA is pretty stanky...
Rush has beer?!?!? WANT!
They talk about it pretty frequently on the Sirius XM channels I listen to. Apparently its not available in the US yet from what I heard. They have a few different beers.
They have merchandise for sale we can buy though. Most of it is pricey. T-shirts are sold out.
https://shophendersonbrewing.com/collections/rush
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Buying my time. I can't wait to sample some if it ever makes it way to my neck of the woods.
I have a somewhat (with help from a member here) "clone recipe" of the Canadian Golden Ale. Henderson's Brewing, who make Rush's beer, had the ingredients listed on their sight. I quickly copied it down and with Coastalbrew's help, have a makeshift recipe. Just got to get around to brewing it.
Off topic, but the 40th Anniversay of Moving Pictures is worth getting. The live show, Toronto '81, is out of this world!
InspectorJon
Well-Known Member
I might get chastised for wandering from the the original subject matter but it seems a shame some things get named the way they do. I think it would have been better to call NEIPA New England Ale but there is a whole other very long thread on that subject.
OP
OP
SNCIPA?
Guys I’m coming back around on this and I apologize for some snarky comments earlier.
I just got a fridge for making lagers and I guess the old adage is true - when you’re holding a hammer everything looks like a nail.
So I have 2 lagers in the works - a golden lager and an amber lager - and I’m looking for another beer I can do with this yeast. (Wyeast 2035). I first thought about making a small batch of bock. Something I probably wouldn’t want alot of. But thats probably not the right yeast. Then I came back to this.
So aside from semantics - we understand this is not an “official” BJCP style. What would you think are the defining characteristics of an IPL vs IPA and what are we looking for in the finished beer? Most commercial examples seem to focus on a lighter color than we would typically see with an IPA. Alcohol strength seems to be about the same. Then it seems like we’re playing with the hops.
So is this “just” a lighter colored IPA recipe fermented with lager yeast? Or do we start with a NEIPA recipe? Are New Zealand hops a must? Would it be “wrong” to use all American C hops? I’ve had a couple good English IPAs - so I wonder how it would play as an English IPL with all British hops? That might make for a decent experiment.
I just got a fridge for making lagers and I guess the old adage is true - when you’re holding a hammer everything looks like a nail.
So I have 2 lagers in the works - a golden lager and an amber lager - and I’m looking for another beer I can do with this yeast. (Wyeast 2035). I first thought about making a small batch of bock. Something I probably wouldn’t want alot of. But thats probably not the right yeast. Then I came back to this.
So aside from semantics - we understand this is not an “official” BJCP style. What would you think are the defining characteristics of an IPL vs IPA and what are we looking for in the finished beer? Most commercial examples seem to focus on a lighter color than we would typically see with an IPA. Alcohol strength seems to be about the same. Then it seems like we’re playing with the hops.
So is this “just” a lighter colored IPA recipe fermented with lager yeast? Or do we start with a NEIPA recipe? Are New Zealand hops a must? Would it be “wrong” to use all American C hops? I’ve had a couple good English IPAs - so I wonder how it would play as an English IPL with all British hops? That might make for a decent experiment.
I don't think there are any rules here other than the fact that you won't get the typical esters of an ale yeast.
OP
OP
Glad you're coming around. I will forgive you.
So, an excellent local brewery here, Sideward, made their third cold IPA and released it at the same time as a dry hopped pils. Their cold IPA was excellent, but their dry hopped pils was amazing. I think they're trying to follow the clean, light, crisp recipe for a cold IPA. The pils was hazy, like a Trillium beer.
I would say make the cold IPA bitter, hoppy, and as clear as possible (mine was hazy as hell). Use a neutral lager yeast, don't complicate things.
deadwolfbones
Well-Known Member
Disagree, mainly because IPLs classically use European noble hops while cold IPA uses new school American and Aussie/Kiwi hops, plus the cold IPAs use a healthy dose of adjunct for added crispness.
deadwolfbones
Well-Known Member
To make you style purists even angrier, there's also West Coast Pils (in the style of Timbo Pils from Highland Park Brewery in LA), which is similar to cold IPA but lower IBU and ABV.
The style purist in me is primarily annoyed by the oxymorons like putting lager yeast in a wort, fermenting it cold and using the word "ale" in the proposed new style name. Nah. Same for Black IPA (black = pale?). Blonde Stout?
Secondarily it's about breweries commandeering classic style names and completely changing what they are. As a consumer, it's frustrating. Order a pale ale anymore and it's completely opaque with 10% lactose in it and enough hop burn to cause 24 hour acid reflux. Sure, West Coast Pilsner. Kind of a crisp clear very hoppy lager, like a IPL but it needs a new name because marketing. Get off my lawn.
Secondarily it's about breweries commandeering classic style names and completely changing what they are. As a consumer, it's frustrating. Order a pale ale anymore and it's completely opaque with 10% lactose in it and enough hop burn to cause 24 hour acid reflux. Sure, West Coast Pilsner. Kind of a crisp clear very hoppy lager, like a IPL but it needs a new name because marketing. Get off my lawn.
deadwolfbones
Well-Known Member
Hmmm... i had not looked it at like that.
Is that a hard and true fact? I figured these terms are so "loosey goosey" (that is an offcial BJCP term of course) that one can interchange any hop with either...
That being said- i like your observation. Gives me something to consider and look for going forward.
Now- to go a little off topic here... i see you are from Bend.
I recently picked up travel up there. What are your top 3 breweries to try?
I have enjoyed Wayfinder, Pfriem so far.
OP
OP
Craft Beer and Brewing just released an issue on this BTW.
deadwolfbones
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Highly recommend Sunriver, Van Henion, and Boneyard.
Boss Rambler is doing an interesting stuff with heavy SoCal vibes, and Ale Apothecary is a must if you like sours.
And of course Deschutes is worth a visit (recommend the brewery taproom over the downtown pub).
I think one thing is the heavy use of base adjuncts (ie. corn/rice) to drive the FG way down. It seems, to me at least, that's a common denominator in the pros' versions.
Am i the only one who figures a (craft) IPL (or cold IPA) is simply an aggresively hopped, lager-yeast, cold fermented beer?
I haven't looked at the grain bills of most i drink, but i figured it was a way to combine a lager with the hop popularity right now.
I thought it was that simple.
Am i that off base? Yet again?
I haven't looked at the grain bills of most i drink, but i figured it was a way to combine a lager with the hop popularity right now.
I thought it was that simple.
Am i that off base? Yet again?
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Nope, pretty much hit the nail on the head...think WC IPA with 34/70 yeast.
Plus adjuncts. I don't have a horse in this race, but when I see people trying to categorize Cold IPA, they usually leave out the intended use (heavily) of adjuncts.
https://newschoolbeer.com/home/2021/2/what-is-a-cold-ipa-wayfinder-kevin-davey-definition
OP
OP
Exactly.
