what makes it a cold ipa

[fluketamer]

isnt it just a lager with ale hops?

i was planning on brewing an APA this week but noticed i dont have any fresh ale yeast. i have 34 /70 however and pilsner malt so i thought i might make a cold IPA.

since the grist is the same and the yeast is the same isnt this the same as a lager with ale hops?

not that it matters of course.

 

[AlexKay]

isnt it just a lager with ale hops?

i was planning on brewing an APA this week but noticed i dont have any fresh ale yeast. i have 34 /70 however and pilsner malt so i thought i might make a cold IPA.

since the grist is the same and the yeast is the same isnt this the same as a lager with ale hops?

not that it matters of course.

My limited understanding of the style:

• American adjunct lager grain bill, scaled up to ~7-8% ABV.
• West Coast IPA bitterness and hop intensity (with West Coast hops)
• 34/70 fermented warm

I’ve done a few according to the above, though I lean more towards tropical fruit with the hops, rather than pine and grapefruit. They are tasty.

 

[mac_1103]

So is there a difference between a cold IPA and an IPL, or are they basically the same thing?

 

[AlexKay]

So is there a difference between a cold IPA and an IPL, or are they basically the same thing?

Well, arguably the the term is more marketing and spin than anything else. But I believe the people who coined it wanted to make something decidedly distinct from an IPL.

There was a Master Brewer's Podcast on it a while back:
https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/225

One of the guests is the head brewer from Wayfinder in Portland who brewed the first one.

 

[fluketamer]

So is there a difference between a cold IPA and an IPL, or are they basically the same thing?

slightly more confused now as i thought an ipl was a lager grist fermented with ale yeast.

i guess i am asking because i want to make beer and have everything for an ipa but the yeast and i have lager yeast. and dont want ot make anything too weird but i guess 34 /70 warm is not going to be too far off from a clean fermenting ale yeast .

 

[David Coy]

So is there a difference between a cold IPA and an IPL, or are they basically the same thing?

Much like I used to describe the difference between a "Red" and a "Brown" is "the brewer decided to name it that way."

There are differences between the two, but an argument can be made that either is the other.

 

[AlexKay]

slightly more confused now as i thought an ipl was a lager grist fermented with ale yeast.

i guess i am asking because i want to make beer and have everything for an ipa but the yeast and i have lager yeast. and dont want ot make anything too weird but i guess 34 /70 warm is not going to be too far off from a clean fermenting ale yeast .

Go with the 34/70, at whatever temperature you like, and it'll be good. That's one of the many beautiful things about 34/70.

My last cold IPA recipe (for a ~1.25-gallon batch):

2.5 lbs. Briess MaltGems
1 lb. sugar

3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 60 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 15 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 5 min.
4 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) @ 5 min.
4 g Grove (11% AA) @ 5 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
6 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
6 g Grove (11% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) dry hop at packaging
8 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) dry hop at packaging
8 g Grove (11% AA) dry hop at packaging

34/70

~8% ABV

 

[David Coy]

Go with the 34/70, at whatever temperature you like, and it'll be good. That's one of the many beautiful things about 34/70.

My last cold IPA recipe (for a ~1.25-gallon batch):

2.5 lbs. Briess MaltGems
1 lb. sugar

3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 60 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 15 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 5 min.
4 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) @ 5 min.
4 g Grove (11% AA) @ 5 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
6 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
6 g Grove (11% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) dry hop at packaging
8 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) dry hop at packaging
8 g Grove (11% AA) dry hop at packaging

34/70

~8% ABV

"Dry hop at packaging."

Not something I've seen often. Could you describe what you are doing to dry hop at packaging? Are you running through a Randle or something?

 

[fluketamer]

"Dry hop at packaging."

Not something I've seen often. Could you describe what you are doing to dry hop at packaging? Are you running through a Randle or something?

i was going to ask the same thing. whats that?

do you mean you dryhop in the serving keg and leave the hops in there for the life of the keg?

 

[AlexKay]

"Dry hop at packaging."

Not something I've seen often. Could you describe what you are doing to dry hop at packaging? Are you running through a Randle or something?

I ferment in a keg with a floating dip tube, and use the fermentation gas to purge a second keg, which also has a floating dip tube. That purged keg is loaded with the dry hop charge on brew day.

I usually, though not always, spund.

When fermentation is done, I transfer the beer without oxygen exposure, cool the beer immediately, and leave the beer on the hops. It takes a few days at serving temperature to get the impact of the dry hop. I haven't had any trouble with grassy flavors, but I do try to drink them fast.

 

[fluketamer]

I ferment in a keg with a floating dip tube, and use the fermentation gas to purge a second keg, which also has a floating dip tube. That purged keg is loaded with the dry hop charge on brew day.

I usually, though not always, spund.

When fermentation is done, I transfer the beer without oxygen exposure, cool the beer immediately, and leave the beer on the hops. It takes a few days at serving temperature to get the impact of the dry hop. I haven't had any trouble with grassy flavors, but I do try to drink them fast.

how fast is fast . a keg usually lasts me 4-5 weeks sometimes 6 at most.

i was nervous about leaving my beer on hops so i transferred it but it would be easier to just leave it on the hops.

 

[AlexKay]

how fast is fast . a keg usually lasts me 4-5 weeks sometimes 6 at most.

i was nervous about leaving my beer on hops so i transferred it but it would be easier to just leave it on the hops.

I would say 6, but some have probably gone past 8. I’ve never had a problem. Keeping it cold the whole time might be a necessary thing, though. That’s smart practice for anything oxygen sensitive, anyway.

 

[odie]

what makes it a "cold IPA"? if it's nice and cold to drink on a hot day...well it's a cold IPA.

Once you pitch lager yeast...the "A" no longer exists...

 

[AlexKay]

This has inspired me to make a cold black IPA.

That would be “I” as in American, “P” as in Black, and “A” as in Lager.

 

[fluketamer]

i am going with
9 lbs briess 2 row
1 lb vienna
.5 lbs of dextrose
.5 carapils.

.5 oz chinook fwh
no flavor additions
4 oz citra whirlpool at 160 for 30 mins.

i will pitch one pack of 34/70 at around 64 and maybe lower it to 60 (maybe not)

then on day 7 ish ( around high kreusen)
i am throwing in 1 oz of citra and 1 oz of zamba then i am going to just leave it in there and drink off it after the hops sit for a few days.

i have a very good feeling about this one,.

i will call it a cold ipa but i think its an ipl . not sure. dont care at this point.

 

[David Coy]

what makes it a "cold IPA"? if it's nice and cold to drink on a hot day...well it's a cold IPA.

Once you pitch lager yeast...the "A" no longer exists...

You might be surprised at how many folks are making IPAs using Global at ale temps.

 

[mac_1103]

Once you pitch lager yeast...the "A" no longer exists...

This has inspired me to make a cold black IPA.

Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)

 

[mac_1103]

i am going with
9 lbs briess 2 row
1 lb vienna
.5 lbs of dextrose
.5 carapils.

.5 oz chinook fwh
no flavor additions
4 oz citra whirlpool at 160 for 30 mins.

i will pitch one pack of 34/70 at around 64 and maybe lower it to 60 (maybe not)

According to the always impeccably accurate Wikipedia, that would be an IPL - IPA wort fermented with lager yeast at lager temps. OTOH, they claim that a cold IPA is an American adjunct lager grain bill hopped like an IPA (also fermented with lager yeast at lager temps).

I guess I learned something today. Just not sure if what I learned is true...

 

[fluketamer]

yeah google AI is giving me similar results. when i googled cold ipa it said its made with lager yeast at 62 degrees which i didint think was that cold?

then ipl says something about the grist. but the ipa also can have lager grist so basically i think its all just semantics.

 

[mac_1103]

I call my Black IPA "Oxymoron Ale" but I suppose that name could work for a lot of styles.

 

[worlddivides]

An IPL is just a lager version of an IPA (hence why "A" (ale) is just changed to "L" (lager)). A cold IPA is a misnomer since it's fermented with lager yeast, making it not an IPA AT ALL. But it's apparently just marketing since they don't expect customers to know IPL as well as IPA, so they just came up with a name that uses "IPA" even though it's not an ale. The difference between an IPL and a cold IPA is that IPLs are normally fermented at typical lager temperatures, while cold IPAs are lager yeasts fermented at the low end of ale temperatures (so why is it "cold"? They still tend to ferment them within the range of what ale yeasts ferment at. If I recall correctly, cold IPAs don't even lager, so what's cold?!). West Coast Pilsner is a specific type of IPL that's basically a lager using West Coast hops and West Coast IPA-style bitterness.

The cold IPA also frustrates me because what they consider "cold" is the temperature I typically ferment my normal IPAs (as in, with ale yeast).

 

[AlexKay]

What is a Cold IPA? Definition explained by Wayfinder brewmaster Kevin Davey

Kevin Davey on the Thinking Behind “Cold IPA”

Recipe: Wayfinder Original Cold IPA, Illustrated​

“Cold” is supposed to invoke crispness; it has little to do with the actual temperature, either during fermentation or serving.

Yes, it’s marketing. Yes, I agree it’s kind of a silly name. But it does mean something now, and that something is distinct from a West Coast IPA or an IPL.

TL, DR (the links):
“I came up with the recipe mainly as a lager brewer’s answer to the brut IPA trend. The term “cold IPA” was certainly cheeky, but it really was a great way to describe a lighter and more refreshing IPA. We had a meeting where we brought up the obvious complaint that all IPAs are cold and it doesn’t make sense—but in my view, it does makes sense. Asahi Super Dry is actually super-wet. There is no milk in cream ale. Hell, even India pale ales aren’t made for shipping to India anymore (and some of them aren’t even pale). It’s all just a way of communicating to the customer what they’re going to get.”

 

[worlddivides]

TL, DR (the links):
“I came up with the recipe mainly as a lager brewer’s answer to the brut IPA trend. The term “cold IPA” was certainly cheeky, but it really was a great way to describe a lighter and more refreshing IPA. We had a meeting where we brought up the obvious complaint that all IPAs are cold and it doesn’t make sense—but in my view, it does makes sense. Asahi Super Dry is actually super-wet. There is no milk in cream ale. Hell, even India pale ales aren’t made for shipping to India anymore (and some of them aren’t even pale). It’s all just a way of communicating to the customer what they’re going to get.”

At least the guy who came up with the name is fully aware of all of that. I hadn't even considered the idea that all IPAs are served cold. I only considered it in reference to it being brewed "cold," though it's still brewed within normal IPA fermenting temperatures. I do think most breweries brew their IPAs at between 68 and 72F, whereas I've tended to brew them closer to 64F to 67F. The real irony is that US-05's packaging says ferments between 53.6F and 77F. I've never fermented any variant of Chico under 60F before (though I have fermented them closer to 77F before, especially near to when I first started brewing). Seems like a real "cold IPA" would be brewed with US-05 at 54F. Heh.

But Alex, you are definitely right that "cold IPA" is now firmly established as a style, even though the style name has probably been commented on more than any other beer style I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[AlexKay]

At least the guy who came up with the name is fully aware of all of that. I hadn't even considered the idea that all IPAs are served cold. I only considered it in reference to it being brewed "cold," though it's still brewed within normal IPA fermenting temperatures. I do think most breweries brew their IPAs at between 68 and 72F, whereas I've tended to brew them closer to 64F to 67F. The real irony is that US-05's packaging says ferments between 53.6F and 77F. I've never fermented any variant of Chico under 60F before (though I have fermented them closer to 77F before, especially near to when I first started brewing). Seems like a real "cold IPA" would be brewed with US-05 at 54F. Heh.

But Alex, you are definitely right that "cold IPA" is now firmly established as a style, even though the style name has probably been commented on more than any other beer style I can think of off the top of my head.

I may not be able to hear "Asahi Super Dry" in the future without thinking "Asahi Super Wet."

Off topic, I'm fermenting a wheatwine right now with Nottingham. My fermentation chambers are full up, so I put it in my garage at 60 F ambient ... and then the temperature plummeted. It's below 50 ambient away and the yeast is still bubbling away like mad.

 

[bwible]

Go with the 34/70, at whatever temperature you like, and it'll be good. That's one of the many beautiful things about 34/70.

My last cold IPA recipe (for a ~1.25-gallon batch):

2.5 lbs. Briess MaltGems
1 lb. sugar

3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 60 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 15 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) @ 5 min.
4 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) @ 5 min.
4 g Grove (11% AA) @ 5 min.
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
6 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
6 g Grove (11% AA) stand 10 minutes @ 160 F
3 g Citra LUPOMAX (18% AA) dry hop at packaging
8 g Nectaron (9.6% AA) dry hop at packaging
8 g Grove (11% AA) dry hop at packaging

34/70

~8% ABV

You sure you got enough hops in that?

 

[worlddivides]

I may not be able to hear "Asahi Super Dry" in the future without thinking "Asahi Super Wet."

And that was him being "cheeky" too since we all know that "dry" means it has low residual sugars (Super Dry has a final gravity close to 1.000). It's not Japanglish or anything either. It's why we have "dry gin" in English (which is unsweetened) and how "dry" is used for the sweetness of wine. The actual Japanese word for "dry" in an alcohol context (beer, wine, gin, etc.) is "karakuchi," which is literally written with the symbols for "spicy" and "mouth," but Asahi Super Dry isn't "spicy" in an overly literal sense either. At least in Japan, the cans of "Asahi Super Dry" have "Karakuchi" written at the top of the can both in Japanese kanji and romaji.

I think he just wants to excuse himself for calling a lager an ale.

 

[day_trippr]

In light of the winter we're having around here today's sunny 40°F made it a stellar day for a ride to look for an example of the fabled "Cold IPA" to see if it might be something I want to brew. At the end of the day, only one retailer roughly near me (Julio's in Westboro MA a half hour away) carries an example - in their case it's Notch Brewing's "Garageland"...

...but what Julio's has in stock was brewed last March, and has sat on a warm shelf since then. Nope nope nope

So, from my informal survey, it appears cold IPA never gained any traction to speak of around here. Has to be a reason for that but until I can find one worth drinking it'll remain a mystery to me...

Cheers!

[ps] Treehouse Brewing lists around 64 IPAs in their repertoire and none of them are classified as "cold IPA". That has to mean something wrt the style's marketability because Treehouse will brew pretty near anything called "IPA"

 

[mac_1103]

Treehouse will brew pretty near anything called "IPA"

I resemble that remark.

 

[An Ankoù]

isnt it just a lager with ale hops?

i was planning on brewing an APA this week but noticed i dont have any fresh ale yeast. i have 34 /70 however and pilsner malt so i thought i might make a cold IPA.

since the grist is the same and the yeast is the same isnt this the same as a lager with ale hops?

not that it matters of course.

Not really, it's more of an ale brewed with lager yeast, but brewed warm - I suppose lager yeast gives fewer esters. There's also a high percentage of adjuncts, rice or maize, and Centennial hops seem to figure in the mix. Dry hops are thrown in at the height of fermentation to encourage biotransformation and the end product should be clear rather than hazy or cloudy, and served chilled.
I made one, once, and was very happy with the way it turned out.
Must do it again.

 

[Shenanigans]

Not really, it's more of an ale brewed with lager yeast, but brewed warm - I suppose lager yeast gives fewer esters. There's also a high percentage of adjuncts, rice or maize, and Centennial hops seem to figure in the mix. Dry hops are thrown in at the height of fermentation to encourage biotransformation and the end product should be clear rather than hazy or cloudy, and served chilled.
I made one, once, and was very happy with the way it turned out.
Must do it again.

What was your recipe?
I don't have any 34/70 but M79 or Diamond Larger should work too.

 

[An Ankoù]

What was your recipe?
I don't have any 34/70 but M79 or Diamond Larger should work too.

Diamond will be fine.
Check out Kevin Davey from Wayfinder Beer of Cold IPA
Also John Palmer, here:
https://www.beerandbrewer.com/john-palmers-cold-ipa-all-grain-recipe/
and especially here:
https://www.wildabouthops.nz/cold-ipa.html

If you still want my recipe I'll look it up later.

 

[Shenanigans]

Diamond will be fine.
Check out Kevin Davey from Wayfinder Beer of Cold IPA
Also John Palmer, here:
https://www.beerandbrewer.com/john-palmers-cold-ipa-all-grain-recipe/
and especially here:
https://www.wildabouthops.nz/cold-ipa.html

If you still want my recipe I'll look it up later.

Thanks I'll check out the links later tonight.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

AA have you brewed a Cold IPA with NZ hops. I’ve got some Southern Cross, Nelson Sauvin and Galaxy, I was thinking
25g SC @ 60m
25g NS @ 15m
25g Galaxy @ whirlpool and dry hop.

 

[An Ankoù]

I did brew one and it wasn't my best, but I think one of the hops wasn't as fresh as it should have been. I'll look up the details when I get in.

 

[An Ankoù]

Something to bear in mind. Cold IPA should be served crystal clear. To some extent it's a grudge beer against the cloudies! Hops contain up to 2% pectin, which will cause haziness. Add a couple of teaspoons full of pectinase (a common wine maker's ingredient) 24 hours before packaging to prevent this fault in the beer.

 

[An Ankoù]

Here's a link to another forum where I developed my ideas and posted my recipe.
https://www.homebrewinguk.com/post/cold-ipa-12701984?highlight=cold%20ipa&pid=1335826198

I used a Kölsch yeast instead of the ubiquitous W-34/70, and rice instead if corn.

 

[InspectorJon]

Lots of information In This Thread