Cold crashing versus just kegging

[djonesax]

I was wondering how many of you that keg beers will cold crash before kegging or just got to keg and pour off the sediment in the first couple pints?

David

 

[number40fan]

I cold crash then keg.

 

[Yooper]

I keg, without cold crashing before hand. But my beer is totally clear when I keg, and the only sludge is in the first 3 ounces, which I pour out and the rest is clear beer as long as I don't move the keg.

 

[dobes]

I cold crash almost all the time. When I don't its not a big deal don't notice any difference maybe a bit more sediment but never an issue.
Just remember carbing pressures are different for warm vs cold kegs.

 

[brew_ny]

I cold crash then keg it helps to compact the yeast

S_M

 

[djonesax]

I cold crashed my last couple brews because I wanted to see if it helped me get clearer beer but it really didn't. I always use wirfloc and even with the cold crashing my brews are always have chill haze at least. I just haven't had good luck with clarity yet. I can always tell when a keg has two pints left because the beer will finally be clear, and then it kicks.

Anyway lifting a 10 gallon primary into the kegerator is tough which is why I am asking how many do it.

 

[BrewWNC]

Cold crash as well. Not all the time but most of the time. Seems to help.

 

[djonesax]

I cold crash almost all the time. When I don't its not a big deal don't notice any difference maybe a bit more sediment but never an issue.
Just remember carbing pressures are different for warm vs cold kegs.

I'm not carbing warm kegs. The thing is that I am cold crashing at a 40 degree serving temp any way so was wondering if it made a difference versus just kegging since its at the same temp anyway.

 

[paperairplane]

Every time I don't cold crash, I wish I had. Less yeast gets to keg, clears faster, carbs faster b/c already cold.

 

[dobes]

I guess you can look at it this way,
If you don't cold crash, then rack into your keg-
then chill your keg you are essentially cold crashing in your keg.
What would be the difference?- Maybe a bit more sediment in your keg.
Don't see it hurting anything.
I keep two kegs on tap and have 2 in the fridge as backups. So the 2 backups usually have been chilled for at least a week before I tap them. The sediment I usually pull off if they were not cold crashed is no more than a 6 oz glass. A lot of that will also depend on your racking skills.

 

[day_trippr]

The only beers I don't cold crash before kegging are stouts and porters...

Cheers!

 

[hottpeper13]

When I started kegging I turned my cold crashing fridge into a kegerator. It is set at 40* and it amazed me how much longer it took the kegs to clear verses the carboys at 38*, about twice as long. Am looking forward to my ferm chamber with the ability to go to 32* and maybe a little colder.

 

[Jay-Brew]

I have been cold crashing the last number of batches to try and settle the hops from dry hopping before kegging. Seems to make a fairly big difference in terms of that.

 

[NathPowe]

I cold crash before kegging. I think it helps with achieving clearer beer faster and keeping yeast/sludge out of the keg. I also do it because I like to fill my kegs through the liquid dip tube with the lid closed. Kind of a closed off system to reduce any O2 exposure. Anyway, when the beer I'm racking into a keg is cold, I can monitor the fill level from the outside because of the condensation that forms. It's handy.

Cheers.

 

[doodoobutter]

I cold crash, especially since I dry hop sometimes. After fermentation finishes, I dry hop in primary for 5 days.

Whether I dry hop or not, I then do a sloppy rack into the secondary. This way I can get as much beer as possible out of the yeast cake. I probably take about 10% of the yeast cake into the secondary. Then I let it cold crash until I get around to kegging. Very thin layar of yeast compacted to the bottom.

I've found I can get clear, quickly carbonated beer this way, and I end up with a little more beer since I don't have to be so careful with my racking skills.

 

[Bassman2003]

I cold crash everything except hefes and dunkleweizen. Just makes sense to leave as much yeast behind rather than transfer to the keg.

But, I have a question: If you are using an airlock, what do you do with it during the cold crash? If you leave water in it, chances are the water will be sucked into your beer due to the temp changes.

 

[dobes]

I cold crash everything except hefes and dunkleweizen. Just makes sense to leave as much yeast behind rather than transfer to the keg.

But, I have a question: If you are using an airlock, what do you do with it during the cold crash? If you leave water in it, chances are the water will be sucked into your beer due to the temp changes.

That can happen for sure. I use a one piece air lock and that avoids that issue.
Which brings up another issue, the introduction of O2.

 

[hunter_le five]

Another vote for "I cold crash, then keg".

Clear beer in, clear beer out. No wasting the first couple pours.

 

[Jay-Brew]

I have used sanitized plastic wrap over the mouth of a carboy secured with an elastic after taking out the airlock of course. With my SS Brew Bucket I take the airlock out of the bung and basically tape over the top of it to keep the air out.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[rekoob]

I have done both.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I cold crash everything except hefes and dunkleweizen. Just makes sense to leave as much yeast behind rather than transfer to the keg.

But, I have a question: If you are using an airlock, what do you do with it during the cold crash? If you leave water in it, chances are the water will be sucked into your beer due to the temp changes.

Everything below is in regards to the S shaped airlocks which is what I use:

Unless the airlock is overfilled, this does not happen for me. Try this experiment. Fill an airlock properly and suck on it from the bottom.

Very little sanitizer will come through and you'll mostly get an airbubble that moves through the airlock in the reverse direction. It will suck air, but not much sanitizer.

If you're uncomfortable with it sucking in ambient air (it'll be sanitized as it passes through the sanitizer in the airlock btw) for oxygen reasons, you can always just plug the bung with a size 0 stopper before cold crashing. If you do this in a better bottle, the bottle will deform as the air and liquid inside of it contracts. I generally have a c02 line with free flowing CO2 coming out the end of it when I carefully remove the stopper. The carboy will suck air in and I try to do it in a way so that it's mostly sucking in CO2.

Truthfully, I haven't really had a problem with any of these methods though, so saying one works better then the other is probably not in order.

I've also just racked it and then run the tap on the first pour until it's running clear and dump the yeast.

To address Yoopers important point, moving the keg will stir up the yeast again and the settling process will start all over, although the first yeasty pour will likely be less the 2nd time around.

If I want to move a keg, I clean and sanitize a new one and "jump" the beer from the first keg to the second. Carefully watching the jumper line and removing the new keg QD before any cloudy dregs make the jump. Your new keg is clear and clean with no yeast this way and can be transported without fear of stirring the sludge.

 

[tmm0f5]

That can happen for sure. I use a one piece air lock and that avoids that issue.
Which brings up another issue, the introduction of O2.

This is why I stopped cold crashing. You're oxidizing your beer if you cold crash in a carboy. I transfer to keg, flush with CO2, then crash. Wait 1-2 weeks pour off the sediment and then enjoy the beer. If I need to move the keg, I just jump it to another keg with a CO2 transfer. Then move the keg all I want.

 

[day_trippr]

That can happen for sure. I use a one piece air lock and that avoids that issue.
Which brings up another issue, the introduction of O2.

Yes, there is that bug-a-boo. And being around-the-bend obsessed with O2 I've outfitted my ferm fridge with CO2 drops to put a plan into action to defeat it. Just waiting on the new regulator...

Cheers!

 

[Jay-Brew]

This is why I stopped cold crashing. You're oxidizing your beer if you cold crash in a carboy. I transfer to keg, flush with CO2, then crash. Wait 1-2 weeks pour off the sediment and then enjoy the beer. If I need to move the keg, I just jump it to another keg with a CO2 transfer. Then move the keg all I want.

Wouldn't covering the opening with sanitized plastic wrap work for an easy way of doing it. I've done that a couple of times without issue. As for it keeping oxygen completely out I don't know, but it should introduce much less than the airlock option I would think.

 

[dobes]

On my post about introducing O2 while cold crashing, now I do believe unless you have a perfect seal O2 will get in. With that being said I still believe it would not be an issue unless you really got your carboy rocking enough to mix it in.
There should be still enough of a blanket of CO2 to keep the O2 out I would think. However I am not sure.

 

[day_trippr]

Outside of a laboratory, the fabled "CO2 blanket" is pretty much a myth.
Gas theory assures of us that - along with the survival of most life forms on this particular planet.

There is no doubt that cold crashing a vessel with greater than zero headspace will eventually draw something in - air, if no counter-measures are applied.

Whether the rather short exposure (by Day 4 my crashed brews are CO2-pushed to a purged keg) to air mixed with CO2 in the head space of an otherwise undisturbed vessel held at crashing temperatures can significantly degrade the beer is a question I can't currently answer.

But I'm working to eliminate the issue...

Cheers!

 

[doodoobutter]

Interesting that this hasen't been brought up... I always cold crash, but shoot some co2 into it with my 5lb canister to clear out the o2 that creeped into the head space that allowed itself in during racking. What if we purge the majority of the o2 with a blast of co2 and then put a stopper in the carboy, then crash cool?

I've never had a problem purging and fixing an airlock. Sure some o2 gets in there, and some starsan, but I've never had a problem, even aging. Maybe I've been lucky because of the co2 purging minimizing the oxidation.

Gonna grab some stoppers brb

 

[doodoobutter]

Outside of a laboratory, the fabled "CO2 blanket" is pretty much a myth.
Gas theory assures of us that - along with the survival of most life forms on this particular planet.

There is no doubt that cold crashing a vessel with greater than zero headspace will eventually draw something in - air, if no counter-measures are applied.

Whether the rather short exposure (by Day 4 my crashed brews are CO2-pushed to a purged keg) to air mixed with CO2 in the head space of an otherwise undisturbed vessel held at crashing temperatures can significantly degrade the beer is a question I can't currently answer.

But I'm working to eliminate the issue...

Cheers!

Not to start an argument... but co2 sinks and poses a risk to small animals. In massive amounts ofcourse. Because it sinks, and pets are at the floor. I know this, but I don't know how much this actually pertains to co2 creating a safety blanket in fermenting beer.

I think the answer would be a question. What can sink below the fabled co2 blanket, and can it affect the beer?

 

[day_trippr]

Not to start an argument... but co2 sinks and poses a risk to small animals. In massive amounts ofcourse. Because it sinks, and pets are at the floor. I know this, but I don't know how much this actually pertains to co2 creating a safety blanket in fermenting beer.

I think the answer would be a question. What can sink below the fabled co2 blanket, and can it affect the beer?

For the sake of discussion, let's stipulate that CO2 introduced into an enclosed space "sinks". Do you believe that it forms a stable layer?

That would be the error - it doesn't. In short order the CO2 will have evenly distributed through the enclosed volume.

Which is why we're all not dead...

Cheers!

 

[TAK]

+1 to racking skills. I've started brewing slightly larger batches so that I can rack hassle-free from the carboy without worrying about touching the cake.

Still though, I have to move my carboy from my ferm chamber to rack, and in that process it knocks some sediment from the walls. So, I've started racking into a keg with one of those floating dip-tubes. I crash in the keg for a few days with modest CO2 pressure, then closed transfer to the serving keg.

The bit that's left in the first keg, man up, pour it in a pint glass, let it settle for a minute, and drink the rest.

 

[doodoobutter]

I see, so it just mixes, maybe a more concentrated co2 mixture towards the bottom, and less concentrated on top, instead of an impermeable blanket.

I was just thinking of the time my cylinder emptied into my chest freezer from a leak in a co2 line. I bent into the freezer to grab something and it felt like I took a breath of death lol. Cylinder empty...

 

[jbaysurfer]

For the sake of discussion, let's stipulate that CO2 introduced into an enclosed space "sinks". Do you believe that it forms a stable layer?

That would be the error - it doesn't. In short order the CO2 will have evenly distributed through the enclosed volume.

Which is why we're all not dead...

Cheers!

Damn it. I hate you for teaching me this. I usually coldcrash in the carboy with a stopper completely blocking the air hole, and I currently have two batches on tap that I cold crashed for a week with an S-Shaped airlock. How long do you think I have before I'm going to have oxidation off flavors?

 

[danhercules]

Crazy thought..........


I have the 3 piece bubbler. How bout filling a balloon with co2, and putting it over the bubbler. When the beer cold crashes, and sucks in thru the bubbler, it will be sucking in co2.


Am I crazy or might that just work?

 

[danhercules]

Outside of a laboratory, the fabled "CO2 blanket" is pretty much a myth.
Gas theory assures of us that - along with the survival of most life forms on this particular planet.



Cheers!

In a closed inviorment with no air movment, why cant the co2 stay at the bottom? After fermenting I have leaned in to smell my beer with the lid off, as you get closer you get hit with the co2. Seems to me there is a layer covering the beer.

I dont think you can compair it to the earth, there is wind and thermal rising, ect.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Crazy thought..........


I have the 3 piece bubbler. How bout filling a balloon with co2, and putting it over the bubbler. When the beer cold crashes, and sucks in thru the bubbler, it will be sucking in co2.


Am I crazy or might that just work?

Maybe? Intriguing!

 

[jbaysurfer]

In a closed inviorment with no air movment, why cant the co2 stay at the bottom? After fermenting I have leaned in to smell my beer with the lid off, as you get closer you get hit with the co2. Seems to me there is a layer covering the beer.

I dont think you can compair it to the earth, there is wind and thermal rising, ect.

This is a good point, but if the airlock is sucking air back through itself and into the carboy you do have air movement in there. It might only be a little bit per bubble, but the headspace in a carboy while fermenting isn't much. Disturbing the air probably wouldn't take much.

 

[danhercules]

I can see that. But the minimal amount of air only happens when cooling. Then once cool, there is no more movement.

I think I am gonna try the balloon deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jbaysurfer]

^ I like the idea. Please get back to us and let us know how it works?

 

[day_trippr]

In a closed inviorment with no air movment, why cant the co2 stay at the bottom? After fermenting I have leaned in to smell my beer with the lid off, as you get closer you get hit with the co2. Seems to me there is a layer covering the beer.

I dont think you can compair it to the earth, there is wind and thermal rising, ect.

^That's why.

The kinetic theory of gas holds that - except under extreme (laboratory) conditions - the molecules are in constant, random, rapid motion.

Therefore, if you fill a vessel with one gas and introduce another, there will be a homogenous result in short order. No "wind" required...

Cheers!

 

[TAK]

This whole blanket or no blanket debate is silly.

There is no "air" molecule. Air is a mix of N2, O2, Ar, CO2, and other stuff. Add some CO2 from fermentation, and it's not like it's not going to mix with the rest to some degree.