Cider Kindergarten

[FunkedOut]

I'm going to attempt a simple cider. I'm not expecting any gold medals here.
100% store bought, pasteurized, filtered apple juice and a dry pack of safcider. I apologize for all the grimacing this may have caused you cider brewers.

My question comes from my planning stages:
I bought some juice and took a gravity reading; 1.052.
Label says 28g of sugar per 8oz.
BeerSmith and every calculator I've found puts that at 1.046-1.047.
32g per 8oz makes 1.052.

Is there something else in this juice that is affecting its gravity?
Or is the label off?

I'm planning on letting the yeast eat until it's done, then rack and 'back sweeten' to taste with more of the same juice. Then force carb.
Just trying to keep track of an ABV estimate.

Thanks.

 

[voltron]

I got some apple juice here with the same sugar content as you and got 1.050 so i go with your hydrometer

 

[voltron]

Im am not sure if this is the reason for the weird reading but i suspect be oz. oz is a weight and not a volume. so if we measure 8 oz of water and 8 oz of apple juice it would have a different volume. So when we read 8oz we are most of the time assuming 8oz cup of water, but the volume of an 8oz apple juice may be dofferent. . Just a hunch.

 

[madscientist451]

I'

I'm planning on letting the yeast eat until it's done, then rack and 'back sweeten' to taste with more of the same juice. Then force carb.


Thanks.

Using juice to backsweeten will reduce your ABV, frozen apple juice concentrate is a better choice for backsweetening.

 

[Transamguy77]

How you are planning is how I do it, I ferment 4 gallons and then backsweeten with another gallon after adding some campdon tabs. And madscientist451 is correct which is why I started adding some sugar to the fermenting batch so when I add my gallon I don't dilute it as much.

 

[FunkedOut]

The label specifically calls out fluid ounces.

I was planning on sweetening with juice to keep this simple.
At the same time, I don't want to go through all the trouble for 1% ABV.
That's why I started with the math and hit this snafu right out the gate.

If I assume all of the 1.052 is fermentable sugar, that would attenuate over 7% if FG is 1.000.
Add juice to 1.017 would put it closer to 6%.
I could live with that.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I bottled a dry hard cider a week ago. My FG after 9 weeks was 1.000. I could tell that it was done because there was no activity at all in the fermentor and the juice had cleared completely. I Started with an OG that equates to 6%. After priming, I expect my ABV to be about 6.5%. I didn't backsweeten before priming. I did however taste my hard cider and it was delicious. The apple flavor gave it a sort of sweetness that isn't cloying like the commercial brands that I have tried. I am very excited about my dry cider, and can't wait to taste my apple champagne.

As far as the sugar content, the juice company probably doesn't give a rats ass if the juice is 1.045 or 1.055, just as long as its between 1.045 and 1.055.

 

[Maylar]

1.050 is typical. The sugar numbers on the label are an average for their product, but it will vary by batch as apples do. Trust your hydrometer.

Same goes for cans of frozen concentrate. I've seen significant gravity differences between brands even though the labels are identical.

 

[madscientist451]

The label specifically calls out fluid ounces.

I was planning on sweetening with juice to keep this simple.
At the same time, I don't want to go through all the trouble for 1% ABV.
That's why I started with the math and hit this snafu right out the gate.

If I assume all of the 1.052 is fermentable sugar, that would attenuate over 7% if FG is 1.000.
Add juice to 1.017 would put it closer to 6%.
I could live with that.

The problem with the above plan is that you backsweeten to achieve a flavor profile you are looking for. Sure, you can make 4 gallons of cider and then add 1 gallon of juice, but is it going to taste the way you want?
What if you have to add more juice to get the desired flavor profile ?
Some juice will be more acidic than others and may need more backsweetening or you just might want more apple flavor. Everyone has different tastes and the apple juice is a variable product.
Using frozen juice concentrate isn't any more difficult than backsweetening with juice. You can just dump it in and hope for the best, but a better plan is to run some blending trials with different amounts of whatever you are going to use for backsweetening before you blend the whole batch.

 

[FunkedOut]

appreciate the sounding board. I'll make a run at it.
sweetening a glass of cider to taste, measuring the SG and then blending the rest of the batch is the plan!
I might just like it dry. I have a carb cap for soda bottles so I can carb the samples.
I'll report back in a few weeks. 9 weeks is a long time. I was expecting 3. We'll see.

 

[z-bob]

Has anyone tried using sucralose (the active ingredient in Splenda) for sweetening? It wouldn't take much.

 

[Wovensummers]

Has anyone tried using sucralose (the active ingredient in Splenda) for sweetening? It wouldn't take much.

You can use Splenda to sweeten, but it will only sweeten. There is nothing there for yeast to eat so you will not get any carb from it. Other boards I've seen have recommended 2 to 4 TBS per gallon.

 

[voltron]

Has anyone tried using sucralose (the active ingredient in Splenda) for sweetening? It wouldn't take much.

I have. ages ago i was trying to made a hard root beer but it was coming out super dry. anyway I decided to add spleda and it turn out delicious I added it directly to the bottles. The key is your are going to have to fill an empty bottle while it is still flat and add a packet of spleda to see if you like it, it not sweet enough add another half packet etc until you get desired result.
then you know how many packets to use. .you still need to add the appropriate amount of real sugar to carbonate it.

 

[FunkedOut]

Finally got a chance to do this.
Brewed a lager yesterday and figured I’d place the cider in the fermentation chamber along side it.

I poured 18qts of the juice in an ale pale and the OG was 1.049.
I rehydrated a 5g packet of safcider and aerated.
Now the wait...

 

[FunkedOut]

1 week later at 55*F, SG is 1.035.
not so much activity in the airlock anymore, but when I took the lid off the bucket, I could constantly see bubbles breaking the surface.
pretty tasty at this point too. of course this juice is delicious.

The lager is going to free rise to 68*F in the fermentation chamber for 4 days, then start a slow drop to 32*F over the course of an additional week.

Fermentis states this yeast is good between 50*F and 86*F.
My plan was to let the cider continue to ride alongside the lager until that slow ramp down approaches 50*F, at which point I pull the cider out of the chamber and place it in my house until it's done. The house pretty much stays between 69*F and 72*F all the time.

Sound good?

 

[wuyi_wulf]

how warm/cold was the juice when you checked it ?

 

[FunkedOut]

55*F.
It’s been at that temp from pitch until last night when it began the climb to 68*F.
It’s at 60*F tonight.

 

[Calaeb]

I have a 4 gallon batch going right now as well. I added a pound of table sugar to it which brought my sg up to 1.085, I plan to back sweeten it once I keg it but not sure which route I will take. For those of you that use FAJC how many cans are you adding to the keg? I'm also on the fence about using anything to "kill the yeast" as it will be in a keezer for its life span I don't think the need is really there, but I could be convinced otherwise. @Funkedout, how long were you planning to ferment?

 

[MarkKF]

I’ve heard of unpasteurized cider wild fermenting in a 38 deg. F. fridge. So commercial yeast might continue in your keezer.

I add 1/2-1 gal of cider that I freeze concentrate for just sugars.

 

[FunkedOut]

I was planning on fermenting until the SG levels out.
Not sure what to expect; 1.000 or below?

After the SG is stable for a week or so, I was going to bring the temp down to just above freezing and rack it making sure not to get any yeast off the bottom.
In my mind, this was enough to make sure there wasn't going to be any further fermentation when I back sweeten it.

I may be in for a surprise. This is my first.

 

[FunkedOut]

we've had some cooler weather, so that free rise to 68*F took just about the whole week.
end of week 2 and SG is down to 1.006.
not sweet at all anymore.
not sure how much further this will attenuate.

thinking i'm gonna pull it out of the ferm chamber before the lager starts the ramp down and place it in the 72*F house for a week and take another reading.

 

[Maylar]

Cider isn't beer. Keep it below 65°F for the duration. The longer it takes to finish, the better the cider will be.

 

[FunkedOut]

if I leave it in the ferm chamber, it’ll get down to 52*F by Monday night.
safcider lists 50*F as it’s lowest temp.
the ferm chamber will keep dropping and hit 32*F by Friday.
I could just leave it in there and rack to a keg next weekend.

 

[FunkedOut]

I’m thinking about the next step of this cider; sweetening.
I’ll be kegging it, but want to ensure that yeast will not eat any sugar/juice I add for flavor.
I’ve read about pasteurizing bottles to kill yeast.
Could I accomplish the same thing by racking this cider into a brew kettle and heating the batch up that way?
I’m thinking I could heat the cider up to about 190*F without evaporating any goodness.
You think I need to hold at 190*F for any length of time?
Or would just the slow climb and fall be enough to do the trick?

 

[z-bob]

The easiest and safest way to sweeten the cider is at serving time. If mine is too dry I'll sometimes pour just a little in my glass, muddle a sugar cube in it, then pour the rest. But sometimes I like it dry.

Even easier would be to make some thin sugar syrup and keep it in a squirt bottle in your fridge. Or some concentrated apple juice. Add a little of that to your glass. An added benefit is you can serve people who like their cider bone dry and those like it sweet from the same batch.

 

[Droot]

the guy at one home brew shop told me put this in and it will stop it.
Potassium Sorbate.

At 1.022 I put the cider outside where it was in the 40s. Racked to another carboy, and added the required amount.

Back in the basement (68*f) it started out fermenting again. Now its back outside where its in the 30s f with no sign of activity. I serve it still, and want it sweet.

Waiting for it to clear, then will rack again., Maybe keep the keg in the fridge.

I think if you take your cider up to 190, it will evaporate all the alcohol off.

David

 

[MarkKF]

Dry cider & a shot of Jameson! Sweet enough.

 

[FunkedOut]

another week passed as it slowly dropped to 32* and it was still right at 1.006.
got very clear cider racked to a keg.

I dissolved 9 tablespoons of xylitol (everything I had on hand) into a pint of the same apple juice and added that to the keg. (The xylitol did not affect the gravity reading of the juice at all.)

I topped off the keg with more apple juice, sealed it up, checked for leaks and shook it up a bit.

I placed a spunding valve on it and left it at room temp (72*F).
A week later, pressure has climbed to 12psi.
The valve is set to release at 15psi.

This particular keg I acquired with a dip tube that was cut, and leaves about 8oz in the keg.
Getting the cider out of here should be yeast free.

You guys think I should rerack to another keg after another cold crash?
Or just serve from here when I get room on taps?

 

[Droot]

I treated the cider one more time with campden tablets and potassium
Sorbate. Put the carboy outside for a couple weeks with a low of 32*f.

Yesterday we put it in mason jars. FG 1021. It seems to have stopped and tasted really good.

It worked so far.

David