Catty -- where does it come from and how can we prevent it?

[philosofool]

Cattiness comes from hops, but what specifically causes it? Is it just the particular lot of hops, or are there ways in which hops are used that increase the cattiness they produce? Is it late kettle hops? Early additions? Dry hops? Is there any way to tell if a hop will be catty before we add it to the beer?

Basically, I want a thread for cattiness and how to control it. your observations, experiences and knowledge will all be appreciated.

 

[Zekk]

I've heard simcoe and citra hops can cause this if boiled too long. My buddy put 1 oz of simcoe and magnum for bittering in his IPA, tasted like a dirty litter box. He either couldn't taste it, or was lying to himself since it was his homebrew and he was proud of it.

 

[NTexBrewer]

I have read somewhere that it is an individual taste thing. Some people may taste cat pee other people get fruity/floral.

From the article Advanced Dry Hopping Techniques, by Dave Green, BYO December 2014, Vol. 20, No. 8

"Finally there are sulfur compounds such as thiols like 4mmP, a polarizing compound some beer drinkers liken to cat pee while others perceive as tropical fruit aromas."

The article did not talk about if different hops have different levels of sulfur compounds and how to look for this. I'm guessing that some hops will have higher levels than others.

 

[beergolf]

I have never gotten the catty taste, but then I love cilantro.

Maybe you are one of those people that taste thing differently. The cilantro reference is that some people sayi t tastes like soap.

 

[passedpawn]

Simcoe, one time, was a litterbox for me. But then, I just used simcoe in an IPA and didn't get it. So... I'll just lurk here and see what comes of it.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Simcoe tastes like cat pee to me too. :-(

The only exception is Bell's Hopslam. I don't know why, but I taste 0% cat pee in that beer. Weird...

 

[chickypad]

Put me in the simcoe/cilantro lovers' camp. I have gotten some weirdness before overdoing it with citra, not sure if that's the cat pee folks describe.

 

[Reisende]

My first (and only) attempt at a cream ale, I used Cluster (I know, I know). It was great... except for the catty aroma and flavor. Did you by chance use Cluster?

 

[philosofool]

Simcoe is my favorite hop. I have frequently used simcoe to wonderful effect, including in the two most aromaticallly wonderful IPAs I've ever made. I have never made a catty beer, except maybe the Citra-Chinook-Azacca IPA I'm dry hopping right now. But I've certainly tasted it at my homebrew club in beers that included simcoe or citra. I too love cilantro, though I can understand the soap analogy.

 

[Paps]

Some people may taste cat pee.

HEY! Leave Budweiser out of this!

 

[tagz]

I think it's just a matter of selecting hop varieties that match your palate. I'm sensitive to the onion flavor in some hops so I avoid those.

 

[drainbamage]

I can't recall getting cattiness from Simcoe, but I've had a couple beers that were bittered with Citra and I found it unpleasant.

Like tagz just said, I'm also susceptible to onion flavor in hops. Love onion in my food...not a big fan of it in my beer.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

So I've had some really weird tastes in commercial IPAs recently... actually a horrible off-taste they all shared. Still haven't figured it out how to describe the flavor. I'm not sure what cat pee tastes like though, so I'm not sure if that is it.

How does everybody know what cat pee tastes like? How can somebody even GUESS what cat pee tastes like? Is it different than other pee?

I'm not even trying to be funny. I hear people use that description all the time and it confuses the heck out of me.

 

[philosofool]

So I've had some really weird tastes in commercial IPAs recently... actually a horrible off-taste they all shared. Still haven't figured it out how to describe the flavor. I'm not sure what cat pee tastes like though, so I'm not sure if that is it.

How does everybody know what cat pee tastes like? How can somebody even GUESS what cat pee tastes like? Is it different than other pee?

I'm not even trying to be funny. I hear people use that description all the time and it confuses the heck out of me.

The effect is most prominent in the aroma. If you have ever cleaned a litter box, you've smelled it. Whether the taste actually resembles that of cat pee, I don't know.

 

[Yooper]

A very fresh all-citra beer screamed CAT PEE to me. Braufessor sent me two, a session IPA, and it was cat pee (in a good way). About 10 or 12 days later, I cracked the second one (he wanted to know if some of the harshness would fade), and the cat pee aroma was much less and it was more fruity that catty by then.

I get a bit of the same from very fresh simcoe beers, particularly late hopped or whirlpool additions, but then it fades to more of a piney citrus, almost resin flavor.

 

[drainbamage]

So I've had some really weird tastes in commercial IPAs recently... actually a horrible off-taste they all shared. Still haven't figured it out how to describe the flavor. I'm not sure what cat pee tastes like though, so I'm not sure if that is it.

How does everybody know what cat pee tastes like? How can somebody even GUESS what cat pee tastes like? Is it different than other pee?

I'm not even trying to be funny. I hear people use that description all the time and it confuses the heck out of me.

Ammonia would be a less-gross comparison for the aroma than cat pee. I can't attest to how either of those taste, but in general the flavor we associate with it is an astringent bitterness vs. a resinous or citrus character.

 

[progmac]

Citra, Galaxy, Simcoe -- fresh they smell like nothing but cat pee to me. I get no cat pee whatsoever from hops that were heated one way or another, but I do get a bit from dry hops, however nowhere near what I get from the fresh hop.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I like galaxy and citra, and I love zombie dust such which is all citra. Not crazy about simcoe.

I wonder if it is similar to the cilantro thing.

 

[philosofool]

I like galaxy and citra, and I love zombie dust such which is all citra. Not crazy about simcoe.

I wonder if it is similar to the cilantro thing.

I don't think this is just the cilantro thing because I have made a lot of outstanding beers with The Usual Suspects, especially Simcoe, but I have certainly experienced some gross cat pee beer. So, it should be possible to make beers with these hops without adding the feline compounds.

 

[MerlinWerks]

So I've had some really weird tastes in commercial IPAs recently... actually a horrible off-taste they all shared. Still haven't figured it out how to describe the flavor. I'm not sure what cat pee tastes like though, so I'm not sure if that is it.

How does everybody know what cat pee tastes like? How can somebody even GUESS what cat pee tastes like? Is it different than other pee?

I'm not even trying to be funny. I hear people use that description all the time and it confuses the heck out of me.

As someone alluded to "having cleaned a litter box", I'm wondering if there is a correlation between perceiving cat pee in a beer vs floral/other with certain hops and if you've ever had a cat?

I've had cats and I definitely get the cat pee reference

As the same person pointed out it's the aroma that any cat owner would immediately recognize and since taste and smell are closely related...