I agree about oxidation being a major factor. That, and likely some rough treatment of finishing hops without adequate flavor hop additions to add depth to the overall profile. Hence the multiple angles being explored here.
3.) I bottle condition (I don't have kegging equipment and don't want to get it) so the beer is exposed to a lot of air in the bottling bucket and the empty bottles. Could the hop flavor be getting lost that way? I know that happens with the super hoppy New England IPAs but people have been bottle conditioning regular IPAs for decades, yes?
I think @BrewnWKopperKat was onto something. I think James is bottling with Cooper's Carbonation Drops. This eliminates the bottling bucket...just fill the bottles direct from your fermentor and I would think this would substantially reduce oxygen pickup during bottling. The drops will also assure you are getting enough carbonation to push some hop aroma into your face when you taste the beer.If it wasn't covered in one of their existing eposides, it might be interesting to email the guys over at Basic Brewing to find out how they bottle their "Hop Sampler" batches.
What is a “hop tube?And #1 and #2, oxygen is not that aggressive in non bio transformed beers, as there are less bindings going on, it definitely affects but I've had commercial bottle condiotions dry hopped saisons, some 3 years old and there was still hop freshness, due to that lack of binding components going on. He's reducing hop extraction at whirpool by removing them earlier and he's doing the same thing with the use of bags at dry hop, I don't do Hazy IPAs but I do dry hop other beers and I had a massive change in my beers when I moved from musslim bags to a hop tube in dry hop.
So I would leave the hops until the end of the cooling, a strainer is pretty easy to sanitize so you can use it at cool temps, and move to a hop tube, it will improve a lot the hop extraction. Oxygen shouldn't be a major issue when it comes to not biotransformed beers, obviously don't leave them there to sit for months, specially out of the fridge, but they should be good during a couple months so you should be able to drink through those batches while still tasty
I think I had read somewhere that you must get all of the hop sediment out of the wort before fermentation. I believe the idea was that hops in the wort result in off flavors, excessive bitterness, etc.Out of curiosity, why are you so worried about hops in your fermenter? You are removing the very thing you want more of.
And if carbonation drop / tabs don't work, there are a number of additional ideas for dosing individual bottles over in "one gallon brewers unite".The drops will also assure you are getting enough carbonation to push some hop aroma into your face when you taste the beer.
Those commercial bottles likely were bottle to the industrial standard of having a low ppb range of dissolved oxygen. Post fermentation oxygen is definitely detrimental to all beers. A home brewer bottling from a bucket is going to have a hard time getting into the ppm range.oxygen is not that aggressive in non bio transformed beers, as there are less bindings going on, it definitely affects but I've had commercial bottle condiotions dry hopped saisons, some 3 years old and there was still hop freshness,
And yet many of us make beer that we (and our friends) enjoy.A home brewer bottling from a bucket is going to have a hard time getting into the ppm range.
And I'm sure that you aren't splashing all over the place while bottling and that you aren't keeping "3 years of hop freshness". If you oxidize fermented beer it will, among other things, greatly reduce the hop flavor very quickly. With the answers on process from the OP oxidation seems to be the most likely culprit.And yet many of us make beer that we (and our friends) enjoy.
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Thank you.I'm not saying that you cannot bottle good beer at home.
It was mentioned back in #26.I don't think it has been asked, what are you fermenting in?
"Asking for a friend": could those of you who have good cold side processes talk about your process?Talk less about your hop additions and more about your cold side process.
If you're talking post chill and once in fermenter, here's what I do..."Asking for a friend": could those of you who have good cold side processes talk about your process?
You're very correct. It would seem my hot and cold side processes both suck like an Electrolux.@Nick Z , the real challenge begins once you pitch the yeast.
Your recipe and pre-pitch technique sounds fine, but how are you treating fermentation and packaging? That's really the most important part of the process to preserve all flavors and aromas in beer, malt and hops alike.
The Centennial and Cascade hop schedule sounds great to get those flavors into the wort. But you need to keep them around once it turns into beer. Talk less about your hop additions and more about your cold side process.
Dots come (or came) in two sizes 126 count and 198 count.Domino Dots sugar cubes, one per 12 oz. bottle
If your goal is to bottle 1 gallon of beer, here's what I would do to improve this. Pick up a primary fermenter with a spigot, large enough to contain the batch size, and stop using a secondary. You can get a Big Mouth Bubbler in a 5 gallon size. It's fine that it's much larger - the headspace will be filled with CO2. It's no issue.
I use a 1 gallon BMB, which is actually about 1.4 gallons. But the bigger ones allow one to be more careless about batch size.
Allow the beer to ferment in the primary without opening it from the start to the finish, not even once. Take samples from the spigot if you must, and use a refractometer (with correction for alcohol) to determine when FG is reached. The exact FG is less important than confirming stability. A hydrometer is great, but we have tiny volume here and can't waste it.
When it's time to bottle, put sugar in the bottles directly.
I was with you all the way up till your use of the word "need" in your very final sentence. What you are describing is probably best practice for oxygen free dry hopping at homebrew scale but far less extreme measures can still produce an enjoyable and hoppy beer. The OP is not kegging and indicated he is not interested in kegging at current time so this approach isn't going to apply."Throw [hops] in the bucket..."
It seems that you don't fear oxygen nearly enough. Here's how I dry hopped my last pale ale, just for comparison, to give you an idea of how home brewers can keep oxygen away from beer on the cold side:
At the beginning of fermentation, I placed my dry hops in a stainless canister, and put the canister into the keg from which the beer would ultimately be served, which I sealed up.
I then fermented the beer in another sealed keg, venting the fermentation CO2 into the serving keg via a jumper hose. I attached a blow-off from the serving keg into a jar of StarSan. This effectively purged the serving keg of oxygen and replaced it with CO2 during the ~7 days of fermentation.
At the end of fermentation, I transferred the beer from the fermenter keg to the serving keg on top of the dry hops. This was done without opening either keg, using gravity and a bit of bottled CO2 to push it. The serving keg was placed in my keezer and force carbonated over a couple of weeks. The hops were left in there for the duration.
Hop flavor and aroma were still fresh at 49 days when the keg gave up its last pint. The beer was not exposed to atmospheric O2, not even once, after the yeast was pitched. That's the kind of thing you need to work towards when it comes to O2 avoidance.
When brewing a 12-pack using a 2 gal pail as a fermenter (which is pretty close to what OP is trying to do), there is enough space in the fermenter to scale up the recipe about 8 oz to account for two hydrometer readings.A hydrometer is great, but we have tiny volume here and can't waste it.
The spigot idea is good. I have about a dozen two gallon buckets (with nice seals, gotten from homebrew shops). I could get a few spigots and install them. I think the homebrew shops will do it for me but I also have a drill press so I might be able to do it myself. I'll have to see if I have the proper size bit that won't rip the plastic to shreds (spade bits tend to do that).Thanks for the detail! I would say that in terms of classic homebrew techniques, your method is not unusual at all. But in light of contemporary discoveries and equipment/technique evolution in the homebrew community, you are transferring too frequently and probably making the beer vulnerable to O2. While your darker, malty beers don't seem to suffer, that's because hops are just more delicate. They are the first sensory component to go south.
Here's some discussion on what you might change:
Current:
Bucket --> Jug --> Bottling Bucket --> Bottles
Future:
Sealed fermenter --> Bottles
If your goal is to bottle 1 gallon of beer, here's what I would do to improve this. Pick up a primary fermenter with a spigot, large enough to contain the batch size, and stop using a secondary. You can get a Big Mouth Bubbler in a 5 gallon size. It's fine that it's much larger - the headspace will be filled with CO2. It's no issue.
I use a 1 gallon BMB, which is actually about 1.4 gallons. But the bigger ones allow one to be more careless about batch size.
Allow the beer to ferment in the primary without opening it from the start to the finish, not even once. Take samples from the spigot if you must, and use a refractometer (with correction for alcohol) to determine when FG is reached. The exact FG is less important than confirming stability. A hydrometer is great, but we have tiny volume here and can't waste it.
When it's time to bottle, put sugar in the bottles directly. You can do this either with Domino Dots sugar cubes, one per 12 oz. bottle, or with sugar measured on a gram scale. Then bottle as usual with your bottling wand. If you do this well, you'll get one bottle with a little trub. Big deal. Mark the bottle cap with an "X" and try it first.
Yes, but if you do it quickly and during active fermentation it's not so bad. But you could also just experiment first with no dry hops, and as much O2 avoidance as possible to see if it makes a difference.Wouldn't I have to open up the fermenter to dry hop, spigot or no?
Don't. It's a PITA and will undermine your O2 avoidance efforts.I'm not clear on how to bottle from the fermenter (without spigots).
No; there's no point, and this "scrubbing" does not actually happen.Does it make any sense to rack to secondary before fermentation is complete? On the assumption that the continued fermentation will quickly scrub out any oxygen?