- Oct 6, 2017
- Reaction score
If you do not see evident darkening, I would wager that you are not experiencing blatant oxidation.When I've popped the yellow beers open, even after a month, I don't usually see any darkening. I will look more closely the next time I open a bottle. But the color seems to be stable.
That's totally normal IME. The wort after hot-side additions does not have a very pungent hop smell at all.I did notice something disturbing when I did a flame out addition the other day. I weighed out the mosaic hops and they smelled great. Fresh, pungent, fruity. I tossed them into the wort. Twenty minutes later the wort did not smell nearly as pungent as the hops did before I put them in. That might mean nothing.
I totally agree on everything you said, but if I understood it correctly, he is using RO water and that shouldn't have high alkalinity, am I correct?Water is so fundamental as a beer component, that my bet is on this source being your root cause despite all the other things you’ve improved.
Are you hitting your gravity reasonably well? I ask because that water source, while sounding good on paper, might have high residual alkalinity (RA). This can not only cause a high mash pH which reduces efficiency, it can also produce insipid tasting pale beers.
I would prep this water differently next time. Create a profile with 100-150 ppm sulfate, roughly half that amount of chloride, wherever calcium falls (should be well north of 50 ppm), and no sodium or magnesium. Then, acidify your mash with either 2% acidulated malt based on the grain bill weight, or 0.2 mL of lactic acid per gallon of water in the mash.
Since we don't know the RA of the Glacier water, these acid additions are enough to make a difference, even if not the optimal amount, yet should not be too much to ruin it completely if the RA is indeed reasonable.
I'm also having a strong feeling that the major issue here must be somehow water-related.I agree in principle, I just am not trusting that machine to be maintained and/or to do exactly what it purports to do. I use RO water produced from my well water at home. It performs well given the source, which is extremely hard water. The resulting RA in my RO water is 24 ppm and it retains sodium from the water softener of about 16 ppm. So I do need to acidify a little bit, certainly more than if I assumed my water was as pure as distilled.
It's an easy try to make these changes and see if there's any improvement.
Do you have some bottles left from a recent batch? Do you have a way to measure 100ml of water reasonably accurately?As for water profile: I almost always use the "yellow/amber/brown/black balanced" profile in Bru N' Water for whatever color the spreadsheet estimates the color is. Typically I have been using recipes with a two row, vienna, and a little victory malt. I basically copy Brulosophy's Hop Chronicles recipes.
Do you have some bottles left from a recent batch? Do you have a way to measure 100ml of water reasonably accurately?
I'll dig into my notes this evening to find the process I use to dial in kettle salt additions by adding salts "in the glass"Yes, I have plenty of bottles left from four or five batches.
I can easily measure 100ml ...
My thought is that you could try adding gypsum (CaS04) in the glass to move from a "balanced" profile to a "dry"/"IPA" profile.Yes, I have plenty of bottles left from four or five batches.
I can easily measure 100ml ...
As a counter example, take look at Basic Brewing's "Hop Sampler" process. The process is roughly: bring the wort to a boil, kill the heat, add the hops, let it sit for around 20 minutes (the wort will cool naturally from boiling to around 150i-sh), chill and bottle. They get a combination of bitterness and flavor/aroma. I've done this - Cascade is different from Citra is different from Mosaic. Yes, one will lose some of the flavors/aromas - but its not an "all or nothing" thing.A question on flameout additions: I was told somewhere on this forum (maybe this thread or another, I can't recall) that you don't want to add the flameout additions until the wort has dropped below around 160F. Otherwise the hops will just isomerize into alpha acids and give bitterness without flavor.
This very question will reveal my ignorance but.... what is the difference between a flameout and a whirlpool addition?One suggestion I have is to use a lot of hops I know that sounds stupid but most websites say to use a lot less than I use. Also I started skipping the flame out addition and doubling up the whirlpool that really helped. But for my 5 gallon batches I typically use 10oz minimum to 1 pound of hops total.
Are you referring to this recipe?I was looking at the Zombie Dust Clone recipe in Zymurgy. The instructions said to use two grams of gypsum per gallon of reverse osmosis water. Is that just the mash water or also the sparge water? So I need to put in chloride and magnesium and sodium as well? Or just the gypsum?
This will be helpful! Please post the water profile for the spring water.Going to the store to get distilled water. And to pick up some Kroger Spring Water, which they publish a water profile for.
What I would do if I was you is look into commonly used ipa water profiles. Then use ez water it’s a free website it will gives you your additions for mash and sparge water. I use ez water with all distilled water because my well water isn’t suitable for brewing. Whirlpool hops are once the wort has been cooled i usually add the hops at 190. Flameout hops are added right when you cute the heat from your kettle.This very question will reveal my ignorance but.... what is the difference between a flameout and a whirlpool addition?
I'll double check but I'm pretty sure the only metal my beer touches in stainless steel. The buckets and spigots and such are all food grade plastic.
I was looking at the Zombie Dust Clone recipe in Zymurgy. The instructions said to use two grams of gypsum per gallon of reverse osmosis water. Is that just the mash water or also the sparge water? So I need to put in chloride and magnesium and sodium as well? Or just the gypsum?
Going to the store to get distilled water. And to pick up some Kroger Spring Water, which they publish a water profile for.
Any word on Brewtan B?
Yes, that's the one.Are you referring to this recipe?
Three Floyds Brewing Zombie Dust IPA Clone | Beer Recipe | American Homebrewers Association ?
This will be helpful! Please post the water profile for the spring water.
Couple of things I could recommend. Whirlpool bomb. Hops in stages, with flavor at 10-15 to go, and ample at knockout.Pellets. I use pellets for most everything. Though I actually find it easier to strain out whole hops after a boil.
I think there is a big difference. Hops are only considered flavor and aroma hops in the last 20 or less minutes but my personal opinion is you don’t get much until you hit the 10 minute mark. Any beer that your drinking that had that bright hop flavor is definitely heavy on hops after the boil so flameout, whirlpool, and dry hop. I was talking once to the brewer at my favorite local brewery and he didn’t get specific but he said I use a **** ton of hops during dry hop until i upped it past what I thought you were supposed to do I wasn’t getting what I was looking for. But you can over do it what I do is sample my beer when it’s a new recipe and decide if I’m done adding hops are now my most recent one I’m going to keg today is 8oz galaxy and 6oz cashmere it’s so fruity and I can’t wait for it to be carbed.Yes, that's the one.
Here's the link to their 2019 water quality report:
I just got some of their "purified" (reverse osmosis) water, spring water, and distilled. I filled my five gallon containers at the Glacier water machine too. But... it hasn't been serviced since 11/18/2020. Not sure the filters are going to be in tip top shape by now.
I'll use the distilled in the Zombie Dust recipe. Should I add gypsum to the sparge and mash water at a rate of two grams a gallon? Or just mash?
I'll probably need acid for pH adjustment. I'll have to see what I can wring out of Bru N water.
Is there a big difference in what you get out of the hops at 212 F (flameout) versus 190 F?
Depends on the time spend at that temperature and the hop compounds that are lost in the temperature range.Is there a big difference in what you get out of the hops at 212 F (flameout) versus 190 F?
Sometimes this is harder on an intermediate sytem, where you have the immersion wort chiller in the kettle last 15m to sanitize. Cant remove it and it interferes with lid going back on tightly.What do you mean by this? Your wort and everything tossed in at flame out/whirlpool is sanitized. Put a lid on your kettle if you’re worried about airborne items falling in.
Might want to try one of these taller stainless dry hop filters. Better mass/volume than tea ones, and I think better beer contact than the spider. Never felt like the beer was all getting thru the spider efficiently. These just drop in, they sink, down in the turbulance. FWIWI ordered the bucket screen and some tea infusers from Amazon. I'll pop by my local homebrew shop to look for the mesh bags and spigots.
I agree that it's probably not an oxidation issue, but from this statement it seems like you don't know for sure if the beer is darkening. It might be worthwhile to brew a new batch with the same recipe as one that you have some left-over bottles from. Then compare the fresh beer on bottling day against the left-over beer from the previous batch. I'm trusting that the same recipe will ensure that the beer will have the same initial color. If anybody knows this will not work, I hope they will chime in.When I've popped the yellow beers open, even after a month, I don't usually see any darkening. I will look more closely the next time I open a bottle. But the color seems to be stable.