Can't figure out this problem...

[kinjiru]

Hi guys,

I cant figure out what is going on with my bottle fermentation. After a few batches I'm having a constant problem that seems to happen only after bottling, it tastes like yeast! Even after a few months...

I've made a significant upgrade regarding the gear used: plate chiller and a cool box for the mash tun connected directly to the boiling pan to avoid oxidation.

This time I've made a simple Wheat recipe. The fermentation went well with the OG: 1044 (expected: 1045) and FG: 1004 (expected: 1012) after 1 month of fermenting at 20ºC.

The taste was good. A little hoppy in the end witch was nice.

Cold crashed at 10,5ºC and, after 3 days I transferred to a bottling bucket to fill the bottles (added the sugar diluted width boiling water to the bottom of the bucket and only after it cooled to ambient temperature, mixed very carefully to avoid oxidation.

The fermentation in the bottle had the following stages:

1 - 20ºC (10 days)
2 - 10ºC (14 days)
3 - 6ºC (17 days)

After finishing, I've opened a bottle and the aroma/flavour had the yeast very present and it wasn't the desired banana. It was the awful taste of the yeast. When I pour the beer to the glass, I have the attention not to pour the yeast.

After some tests, I found out that I had a lot of small particles of yeast "glued" to the wall of the bottle, so I shook all the bottles and after 2 weeks, I've tried again, this time with the yeast on the bottom. The beer was totally clear but the yeast flavour still persists without any signs of calming down.

The yeast used was the Safbrew WB-06.

What am I doing wrong? I hear that Wheat beers are drinkable after a month and this one, like others I had in the past, only start to taste better after 6, 7 months or more!

Thank you.

Rui

 

[flars]

Try letting a couple of bottles warm to room temperature. Gently resuspend the yeast and keep the bottles at 20° to 24°C for two weeks. Chill for a few days and give it the taste test.
I always bottle condition at room temperature for at least three to six weeks, depends upon the ABV, before chilling and tasting.

 

[kinjiru]

Hi flars,

Thanks for the info.

So, after bottling, you condition at room temperature for 3 to 6 weeks. After that you don't chill for a couple of weeks to help maturation on the bottle?

Regards,

Rui

 

[Likefully]

Try mixing the sediment into the beer when you drink it and see what result you get. May sound counter-intuitive but give it a try.

I have lost my taste for wheat beers, but the last one I made tasted considerably better when I mixed the sediment in rather than leaving it behind.

 

[madscientist451]

I've never used the Safbrew WB-06, but I got this from their website:

Specialty yeast selected for wheat beer fermentations. Produces subtle estery and phenol flavor notes typical of wheat beers. Allows to brew beer
with a high drinkability profile and presents a very good ability to suspend during fermentation.

So they are saying it has a very good ability to "suspend" during fermentation and the website also says the floculation is low, so it looks like this yeast is supposed to produce a yeasty beer flavor. The website also has temperature information about how you can manipulate the yeast driven flavor character by adjusting the temperature. You can get a more banana flavor by fermenting above 23C, but you can get different yeast flavors at lower temperatures by adjusting pitching rate and by different combinations in the malt bill.
I would say the easy answer is to use a different yeast. Maybe your tastes go more toward an American wheat beer, which some say is bland, but uses wheat in the malt bill but a standard ale yeast.
You could also try to filter the yeast out.
Here's a good wheat beer article from BYO:
https://byo.com/hops/item/2265-german-hefeweizen-style-profile

 

[kinjiru]

Try mixing the sediment into the beer when you drink it and see what result you get. May sound counter-intuitive but give it a try.

I have lost my taste for wheat beers, but the last one I made tasted considerably better when I mixed the sediment in rather than leaving it behind.

Hi Likefully,

Yeah, normally I mix the sediment on all the Wheat beers (erdinger, HB, Franziskaner, etc). Since mine have a much bigger amount of the yeast sediment and it tastes even without mixing, I never tried. If I drank all that yeast, I believe that my wife would left me on the next day :cross:

 

[jekeane]

As mentioned before Safbrew WB-06 is bred to stay suspended. You may just not like that yeast. I use WLP029 Kolsch in a few of my wheat beers because I'm not a fan of suspended yeast in all but a few beers.

 

[flars]

Hi flars,

Thanks for the info.

So, after bottling, you condition at room temperature for 3 to 6 weeks. After that you don't chill for a couple of weeks to help maturation on the bottle?

Regards,

Rui

I bottle condition for maturation/carbonation, at room temperature, for 3 to 6 weeks for most of my beers. My American amber ale is ready to chill and drink in 3 weeks. An IPA I brew is at its peak flavor with 5 to 6 weeks of bottle conditioning. I will give an Imperial stout at least 3 months of conditioning time for the subtle flavors to blend.

I suggested this technique as a possible solution to the yeasty taste in your beer. I did not look up the yeast to see that it was a very low flocculant yeast. As another poster said, it may be the characteristic of the yeast and the flavor you are experiencing is normal.

I have corresponded with a brewer in Budapest that does use cold conditioning, as you described, so I would in no way say it is not a technique to use.

With a low flocculant yeast I would not move the fermentor for a couple of days before racking. I would also start the racking cane well above the yeast/trub layer to help minimize the amount of yeast racked.

I hope your beer will eventually be one you can enjoy.

 

[Talgrath]

Erm...Hefeweizens are supposed to be yeasty so congrats you made a hefeweizen! Seriously, if anything I wouldn't let the beer sit for more than a two weeks before tasting. The "hefeweizen" beers like Widmer or Pyramid that you are used to aren't true hefes, they're made with American yeast and wheat malt. Safbrew WB-06 is supposed to remain suspended in the beer and is part of the intended flavor, if you don't want that yeast flavor then switch to US-05.

 

[kinjiru]

I bottle condition for maturation/carbonation, at room temperature, for 3 to 6 weeks for most of my beers. My American amber ale is ready to chill and drink in 3 weeks. An IPA I brew is at its peak flavor with 5 to 6 weeks of bottle conditioning. I will give an Imperial stout at least 3 months of conditioning time for the subtle flavors to blend.

I suggested this technique as a possible solution to the yeasty taste in your beer. I did not look up the yeast to see that it was a very low flocculant yeast. As another poster said, it may be the characteristic of the yeast and the flavor you are experiencing is normal.

I have corresponded with a brewer in Budapest that does use cold conditioning, as you described, so I would in no way say it is not a technique to use.

With a low flocculant yeast I would not move the fermentor for a couple of days before racking. I would also start the racking cane well above the yeast/trub layer to help minimize the amount of yeast racked.

I hope your beer will eventually be one you can enjoy.

Thanks for the info . I will try this method on the next recipe. Fermentation/maturation at room temperature is a lot easier, giving me space for another beer fermentation

Is there a chart where I can check the time needed for bottle fermentation/maturation for each style?

Regards,

Rui

 

[kinjiru]

Erm...Hefeweizens are supposed to be yeasty so congrats you made a hefeweizen! Seriously, if anything I wouldn't let the beer sit for more than a two weeks before tasting. The "hefeweizen" beers like Widmer or Pyramid that you are used to aren't true hefes, they're made with American yeast and wheat malt. Safbrew WB-06 is supposed to remain suspended in the beer and is part of the intended flavor, if you don't want that yeast flavor then switch to US-05.

I'll see if I can find in Portugal that version of yeast. Thanks!

 

[kinjiru]

As mentioned before Safbrew WB-06 is bred to stay suspended. You may just not like that yeast. I use WLP029 Kolsch in a few of my wheat beers because I'm not a fan of suspended yeast in all but a few beers.

You are not the first one to nominate the Kolsch yeast for the Wheat's I really need to check that one

Do you also ferment/maturate in bottle at room temperature?

 

[flars]

Thanks for the info . I will try this method on the next recipe. Fermentation/maturation at room temperature is a lot easier, giving me space for another beer fermentation

Is there a chart where I can check the time needed for bottle fermentation/maturation for each style?

Regards,

Rui

There is no chart for the time it takes for the beer to carbonate during bottle conditioning. Carbonation time relates to temperature. A beer will carbonate in less time at an ambient room temperature of 24°C than 20°C.

I will check an average gravity beer after three weeks, when the room temperature is about 20°C, after chilling in the refrigerator for three days, to check the level of carbonation. I'm in no hurry to check the first bottle, because if it isn't fully carbonated it is like a wasting a beer because it hasn't reached its full potential.
High gravity brews are better with aging, so I won't check the first one for about two months.

 

[kinjiru]

There is no chart for the time it takes for the beer to carbonate during bottle conditioning. Carbonation time relates to temperature. A beer will carbonate in less time at an ambient room temperature of 24°C than 20°C.

I will check an average gravity beer after three weeks, when the room temperature is about 20°C, after chilling in the refrigerator for three days, to check the level of carbonation. I'm in no hurry to check the first bottle, because if it isn't fully carbonated it is like a wasting a beer because it hasn't reached its full potential.
High gravity brews are better with aging, so I won't check the first one for about two months.

Thanks flars for the tips I made a Beligan Ale in last december and only now its very drinkable

Regards,

Rui