Can you steep pilsner malt?

[RIT_Warrior]

I'm making a 90 minute IPA clone this week, with the recipe from BYO magazine:

5 gal
OG 1.088 FG 1.021
IBU 90 SRM 13 ABV 8.7%

AG:
16.5 lbs Pilsner Malt
1.66 amber malt

Extract:
8lbs Light DME
1.75lbs Pilsner malt

2.00 oz Amarillo 8% AA 90 - 0 minutes continuous
.62 oz Simcoe 10% AA 90 - 0 minutes continuous
.53 oz Warrior 15% AA 90 - 0 minutes continuous
1.00 oz Amarillo Dry
.50 oz Simcoe Dry
.50 oz Warrior Dry

Irish moss
Wyeast 1099 (Whitbread)

As you can see, the extract recipe requires Pilsner malt, I assume for steeping. But it seems like you can't steep pilsner malt? At least not according to BeerSmith or this chart:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

Which both think you need to mash Pilsner malt in order to get anything out of it? Or is that wrong? Can anyone suggest an alternative, assuming I'm right and steeping the Pislner won't do anything?

 

[Frodo]

Which both think you need to mash Pilsner malt in order to get anything out of it? Or is that wrong? Can anyone suggest an alternative, assuming I'm right and steeping the Pislner won't do anything?

Pilsner malt needs to be mashed. The starches need to be converted to a combination of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars by enzymes which act at a certain density and at a certain temperature. Steepable grains already have their starches converted and those sugars only need to be dissolved into water. Are you sure it doesn't say Pilsner extract though?

If it does say pilsner malt, you could do a partial mash with it; it's really not too difficult and pretty similar to steeping. You do have to pay more attention to volume and temp. Very similar to steeping but only add 1 to 2 quarts of water per pound of grain, and maintain a constant temp of, say, 152F, for an hour. You can do that on the stovetop by monitoring the temp closely and adding heat as needed while stirring. A popular alternative to that method seems to be putting the pot with your partial mash in the oven on it's lowest setting (150ish if at all possible). Then as with steeping you should try to rinse the grains off ("sparge") to get the most amount of sugar out of them with 170F water. So, to do this, you could have the grains in a grain bag, then dunk in a separate pot with 170F water for a few minutes.

Check this out: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

 

[vast_reaction]

I tried to find the source to back this up, but I couldn't. The information I am repeating came from Forrest, a vendor from Austin Homebrew Supply. AHS includes Pale 2-row malt with almost all of their Extract kits, and their kits DO NOT require a partial mash. Pilsner malt is basically the same thing.

Steeping Pilsner malt will not extract any of its fermentable sugars, but apparently it will still allow use of its enzymes, which will make your wort easier to ferment in general. They include 1-2lbs of this malt in all of their extract recipes.

In summary, you CAN steep the Pilsner malt, just for a slightly different purpose.
Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Brewsmith]

The short answer is:
If you take the pilsner malt and steep it in 2-2.5 quarts of water and hold it at 148-156º F for 30 minutes, you've just done a mash.

The steeping and mashing processes look very similar, if not the same from a practical standpoint, but there are different chemical and biological reactions happening between the two.

Mashing involves enzymes from malted grains breaking down starches into smaller sugars. Steeping is simply dissolving or making a tea out of sugars and other grain components with hot water.

 

[Frodo]

Steeping Pilsner malt will not extract any of its fermentable sugars, but apparently it will still allow use of its enzymes, which will make your wort easier to ferment in general. They include 1-2lbs of this malt in all of their extract recipes.

In summary, you CAN steep the Pilsner malt, just for a slightly different purpose.
Can anyone confirm this?

Easier to ferment huh? You'll have to explain what that means to me.


I see on the Austin Homebrew Supply website that you can add a "1% alcohol boost" to any style for $1.99 "without compromising its flavor". That's seems like a lot of money for a couple cups of sugar...

 

[Germelli1]

I tried to find the source to back this up, but I couldn't. The information I am repeating came from Forrest, a vendor from Austin Homebrew Supply. AHS includes Pale 2-row malt with almost all of their Extract kits, and their kits DO NOT require a partial mash. Pilsner malt is basically the same thing.

Steeping Pilsner malt will not extract any of its fermentable sugars, but apparently it will still allow use of its enzymes, which will make your wort easier to ferment in general. They include 1-2lbs of this malt in all of their extract recipes.

In summary, you CAN steep the Pilsner malt, just for a slightly different purpose.
Can anyone confirm this?

It wont make it easier to ferment because the emzymes will be denatured as soon as the wort breaks 170-180 degrees on its way to a boil.

I dont really see any point in using pilsner malt without mashing. After all it is a pretty subtley flavored malt and contributes next to no color.

Like someone else said, you are using a base malt so just "steep" it at a certain temperature for 30-60 minutes and you have mashed it

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Not easier to ferment. The enzymes help the specialty grains. We add it not to extract any sugar but to make the beer more flavorful.

Forrest

 

[vast_reaction]

That's... what I meant. I promise.
I need to stop trying to quote other people without source material at 1 in the morning. Sorry for any misinformation!

 

[Germelli1]

That's... what I meant. I promise.
I need to stop trying to quote other people without source material at 1 in the morning. Sorry for any misinformation!

No harm done! You started the post off by saying you were unsure so you covered your @ss!

...This time at least

 

[RIT_Warrior]

Thanks for all the replies, guys!

Pilsner malt needs to be mashed. The starches need to be converted to a combination of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars by enzymes which act at a certain density and at a certain temperature. Steepable grains already have their starches converted and those sugars only need to be dissolved into water. Are you sure it doesn't say Pilsner extract though?

I am sure it doesn't say Pilsner extract, as it gives instructions for the grains. Although I did a bit of digging, and I think everyone here who said "do a mash" is correct. Here is the recipe for the 60 minute IPA:

http://***********/stories/projects...t-yourself/361-build-a-continuous-wort-hopper

And in the "extract instructions" it says that it is "technically a partial mash". I didn't even consider it because I thought you needed equipment and know-how beyond my understanding to do partial mashes, like a "lauder tun" (whatever that is) and gypsum or something. But, looking at the instructions for the 90 minute IPA in the magazine for the grains:

"Steep crushed grains in 1.1 gallons (4 liters) of water at 150F (66C) for 45 minutes." I think that is actually a mash as described by you guys, they just don't refer to it as such. As I can actually do things that don't involve "lauder tuns" and gypsums, I think I might be able to pull this off.

 

[Germelli1]

You can do all grain using only stovetop pots and a paint strainer bag. Search for "Brew in a Bag" abbreviated to BIAB. It is a common, practical and easy way to conduct mashes!

 

[vast_reaction]

If you get enough gypsums, though, you can start your own carnival.