I would personally sparge it the same way I sparge a Corn Whiskey mash. A purpose built False Bottom and a Whirlpool Master paddle works like a charm..how did you sparge it?
Cheers
Jay
I would personally sparge it the same way I sparge a Corn Whiskey mash. A purpose built False Bottom and a Whirlpool Master paddle works like a charm..how did you sparge it?
I would personally sparge it the same way I sparge a Corn Whiskey mash. A purpose built False Bottom and a Whirlpool Master paddle works like a charm..
Cheers
Jay
I'm a toss it all in kind of guy. But yeah that would work for sure.LOL, i'd use the false bottom for a double boiler in that case....
the enzymes are present in the grain (malted or un-malted). the extended mashing process and extended multiple rests at appropriate temps will activate the enzymes. This will not be as effective as using malted grain but it would work.
the enzymes are present in the grain (malted or un-malted). the extended mashing process and extended multiple rests at appropriate temps will activate the enzymes. This will not be as effective as using malted grain but it would work.
Unmalted barley contains very small amounts of Aplha Amylase at best. Germination is the signal to make more.
If you "mashed" unmalted barley by itself, most of the very meager amount of sugar you'd get would be from the small amount of sugar that was already present in the grain, not converted from starch in the "mash."
I think if you could maintain temps long enough, you could convert some of the starch ... would malting it be a better choice? Yes of coarse. This is not something I would try, malted grains are readily available including wheat and rye. So making a beer entirely from wheat can be done ... same with rye. which was the original question.
I think if you could maintain temps long enough, you could convert some of the starch ...
Indeed, this is why we use malted grains much more efficient.Yes, the little bit of enzymes could convert a little bit of starch. At a guess, at least an order of magnitude less conversion than with malted barley, because the enzymes will be used up long before the starch is.
Thank for saying what I was TRYING to say!the enzymes are present in the grain (malted or un-malted). the extended mashing process and extended multiple rests at appropriate temps will activate the enzymes. This will not be as effective as using malted grain but it would work.
the enzymes are present in the grain (malted or un-malted). the extended mashing process and extended multiple rests at appropriate temps will activate the enzymes. This will not be as effective as using malted grain but it would work.
Thank for saying what I was TRYING to say!
Unmalted barley contains all of the enzymes which will be present in the malted barley (or wheat, rye, corn, rice, etc, etc, etc…) The malting process doesn’t create enzymes.
Now it's a matter of semantics. The moral of the story is that the malting process is what make the grain have diastatic power in the hands of the brewer. How it gets there is a very interesting topic but it's so far out of scope of the original question. It's like asking what the torque specs of a Chevy head bolt are and then arguing about how grade 8 bolts are manufactured.
to be on-topic, or offtopic...? or just crack a joke about doodie..everyone's duty to set the record straight.
This has opened up a whole new world for me, I feel like a Disney Princess.. I have a cream ale and Ipa in progress and only have 3 taps and have kegs in in all 3 right now so I need to get drinking to free up some room. But my spring runs are going to be some wheat and oat beers, using all wheat and or oats. Also thinking of trying a corn beer this summer. Also didnt know I could use Spelt, and the Amish stores around me always have Spelt, Wheat and Oat berrries.to be on-topic, or offtopic...? or just crack a joke about doodie..
@joeoberfoell what have you decided? are we going to get a report about your oat beer?
i don't think it was asked if you were thinking of trying 100% quaker oats or something? which wouldn't work...and i believe oats are gluten free, so yes a 100% oat beer would be GF? i think?
Also didnt know I could use Spelt, and the Amish stores around me always have Spelt, Wheat and Oat berrries.
This has opened up a whole new world for me, I feel like a Disney Princess.. I have a cream ale and Ipa in progress and only have 3 taps and have kegs in in all 3 right now so I need to get drinking to free up some room. But my spring runs are going to be some wheat and oat beers, using all wheat and or oats. Also thinking of trying a corn beer this summer. Also didnt know I could use Spelt, and the Amish stores around me always have Spelt, Wheat and Oat berrries.
All of those can be used as base malts, if they have been malted. I don't know exactly what they sell at Amish stores, but make sure these grains are malted, unless you'll be using them along with other malted grains.
They are all in Berry form so i malt them myself, which I strangely enjoy. The wheat really malts well almost 90-100 percent, the Barly is so so when I can get it. I havent tried their oats yet.All of those can be used as base malts, if they have been malted. I don't know exactly what they sell at Amish stores, but make sure these grains are malted, unless you'll be using them along with other malted grains.
Ya It wont be 100 % corn, I know that going in.be sure to tag me with your results! (i was told i'm wrong, but i don't think corn beer will work because the gel temp is like 190f...)
i'm not sure, but i'm thinking the corn beer will be a flop....unless a cereal mash is done on most of the malt first.....then the temp lowered and the rest added back in to the mash or something....
but i'm just guessing....
but i KNOW the oat beer will be a success! done it many times!
be sure to tag me with your results! (i was told i'm wrong, but i don't think corn beer will work because the gel temp is like 190f...)
I made a beer with home malted corn as the base malt. It worked. I did a protein rest, followed by a very long sacch rest at 150F. Conversion was very slow, presumably due to slow gelatinization. But it happened.
Wow. How was the head retention? What did it taste like? I've read that corn has a much lower percentage of proteins than barley, which should decrease head retention theoretically. Did you see that in your beer?I made a beer with home malted corn as the base malt. It worked. I did a protein rest, followed by a very long sacch rest at 150F. Conversion was very slow, presumably due to slow gelatinization. But it happened.
how many pounds of corn, gallons water....and OG?
Wow. How was the head retention? What did it taste like? I've read that corn has a much lower percentage of proteins than barley, which should decrease head retention theoretically. Did you see that in your beer?
I did this beer for a brewclub "Grocery Store Challenge."
I went to some lengths to explain the difference between naturally occurring germination and the controlled germination which is part of the malting process. Germination, and the resulting conversion of starches to sugars, happens without the malting process. The malting process can’t happen without germination. Germination, and the related chemical reactions, can be controlled but will happen spontaneously when the relative humidity is at, or near 100%, and the temp is above freezing (warmer is better, as in faster, but it will still occur at cool temps; if it didn’t we couldn’t grow cereals at the northern latitudes where many cereals are commonly grown). The malting varieties of barley which are commonly grown are “predisposed”, so to speak, to germinate readily when the appropriate conditions exist. This makes growing those varieties challenging for the grower. One late rain, just before harvest, when ambient temps are relatively high, can result in the grain spouting in the head, rendering the crop useless for malting. Once germination occurs, and the enzymes are available to the endosperm, conversion will begin.No sir, unmalted barley doesn't contain all the enzymes, and malting does create enzymes. Here are a few references. (Emphasis added.)
I went to some lengths to explain the difference between naturally occurring germination and the controlled germination which is part of the malting process. Germination, and the resulting conversion of starches to sugars, happens without the malting process. The malting process can’t happen without germination. Germination, and the related chemical reactions, can be controlled but will happen spontaneously when the relative humidity is at, or near 100%, and the temp is above freezing (warmer is better, as in faster, but it will still occur at cool temps; if it didn’t we couldn’t grow cereals at the northern latitudes where many cereals are commonly grown). The malting varieties of barley which are commonly grown are “predisposed”, so to speak, to germinate readily when the appropriate conditions exist. This makes growing those varieties challenging for the grower. One late rain, just before harvest, when ambient temps are relatively high, can result in the grain spouting in the head, rendering the crop useless for malting. Once germination occurs, and the enzymes are available to the endosperm, conversion will begin.
It’s worth remembering that germination and it’s cousin, spontaneous fermentation, were discovered, not invented, thousands of years ago. Those discoveries led to the development of fermented beverages, a process which continues to be refined all these years later. Science, or, more appropriately, good science, never sleeps. Good scientists don’t proclaim “…from where the sun now stands we will never study (insert topic here) again. We know all there is to know”. The sciences of brewing, cereal chemistry, and plant breeding can collaborate to develop varities of cereals which are specfically adapted to enhance the malting process. But, the science can’t, at least at this point, “create” enzymes during the malting process.
All of which is a way of taking a long road to get to the small house of “it’s a matter of semantics”.
I went to some lengths to explain the difference between naturally occurring germination and the controlled germination which is part of the malting process.
Good scientists don’t proclaim “…from where the sun now stands we will never study (insert topic here) again. We know all there is to know”.
But, the science can’t, at least at this point, “create” enzymes during the malting process.
Yes, you did. And most of that post was accurate, which I (and others, I'm sure) appreciated. I only took issue with a couple of inaccurate, but IMO important, statements, namley that...
//Unmalted barley contains all of the enzymes which will be present in the malted barley (or wheat, rye, corn, rice, etc, etc, etc…) The malting process doesn’t create enzymes.//
Both of those statments are inaccurate. If you now mean to say that by unmalted barley you mean unmalted barley that has naturally germinated, ok, I guess. I don't think that's what others would take it to mean. i.e. a homebrewer talking about adding unmalted grains to their grist does not mean germinated grains. That aside, the malting process (as well as natural germination) does create enzymes. It releases hormones that cause complex proteins to be degraded into amylase (and other) enzymes. Before these proteins are degraded by the process, they are not enzymes. If, on the other hand, you mean that unmalted barley contains everything (except water) needed to produce these enzymes, that's certainly true.
Of course. But good scientists do understand enzyme production during malting.
Biocheminal processes sure do create enzymes during malting. The science just understands it. Are you saying that any/all of the references I provided are incorrect?
I have seen a documentary on beer in Asia and there was aplace using Red beans, because Barley was hard to find and some other things like potatoes, which is intriguing.i stand corrected...but it still looks like a decotion mash would be benificial for corn, for a second alpha rest?
https://bakerpedia.com/processes/starch-gelatinization/
(damn, now i want to see if i use shreded potatos in my beer, i can get back to my 99 cent twelve pack! )
I have seen a documentary on beer in Asia and there was aplace using Red beans, because Barley was hard to find and some other things like potatoes, which is intriguing.
Side note Im going to use Maple tap water for my Cream ale this weekend if I get enough in my buckets. Otherwise I may freeze some for my spring brews. Its on my list to do a maple sap beer and then add some maple syrup at keggingdamn, if the grocery chalenge thread pops up...i'm am so making red bean, or mung bean sprouts.....they do sell mung bean sprouts at the store stilll....stew some white rice, blend up some bean sprouts....i'm so going to take the GREAT HBT "Grocery Challenge"...i'm going to add some 100% maple syrup, just so i can nick name it Sap-Or-Ya....
edit: i assume the conlusion of this thread has been reached and it's all for fun now...?
Side note Im going to use Maple tap water for my Cream ale this weekend if I get enough in my buckets. Otherwise I may freeze some for my spring brews. Its on my list to do a maple sap beer and then add some maple syrup at kegging
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