Feed store beer

[camonick]

Update for anyone who cares. Everything seemed to have turned out right except the beer is extremely bitter. I even tried mixing 50 50 with another Beer and still it was way too bitter. The hops I used said low alpha acids in the 5s Gemini and cashmere but I guess I used way too much in my boil so I am taking the beer and I will distill it today and see what I get. I'll update later

Yea this is what happens when you just winging it. I will try again with a little more precision

Your mash didn’t produce a sweet sugary wort. The hops had nothing to counter act.

 

[doug293cz]

I'm certainly no expert, but I have read that distilling hopped beer isn't a great idea. Maybe the alpha acids come off with the ethanol?

If you use a pot still for hopped beer, you will get some "odd" flavors from the hops. Whether this is an issue depends on your personal tastes. Using a column still will leave behind more of the hop compounds, so the flavor impact will be less than with a pot still.

Brew on

 

[MaxStout]

Update for anyone who cares. Everything seemed to have turned out right except the beer is extremely bitter. I even tried mixing 50 50 with another Beer and still it was way too bitter. The hops I used said low alpha acids in the 5s Gemini and cashmere but I guess I used way too much in my boil so I am taking the beer and I will distill it today and see what I get. I'll update later

Maybe polyphenols from grain husks and/or too much low-alpha hops causing the bitterness.

 

[AdjunctBrewer]

Good enough for my chickens good enough for me. Honestly this is what makes it fun for me just winging it following recipes and rules takes the fun out of it for me. So far I have done pretty good I haven't thrown away anything. The only thing I might throw away is the quick brew stuff I bought from more beer that stuff was no good well to be fair one was ok but one sucked don't ask me which was which

Update for anyone who cares. Everything seemed to have turned out right except the beer is extremely bitter. I even tried mixing 50 50 with another Beer and still it was way too bitter. The hops I used said low alpha acids in the 5s Gemini and cashmere but I guess I used way too much in my boil so I am taking the beer and I will distill it today and see what I get. I'll update later

Not making a recipe usually results in wondering what went wrong. It would have taken < 2 minutes to figure out how much hops of the alpha acid you bought should actually be used to get the result you want.

How many ounces of hops for what volume of brew? If not over hopped, wondering if bitter taste could be from tannins from the grain & chaff.

This comment about tannins is pretty much spot on as your pH was most likely way off (high), combined with all the chaff and straw, it would be tannin city. Again, taking < 2 minutes to calculate the amount of acid to add to your mash and/or boil might have saved the beer.

There's a reason malt is made with plump kerneled grain and is cleaned and rinsed in the steeping process.

Why waste all the time/effort and money to do this sort of thing when it can be done right (even with feed grade grain) with very little effort? To me that's not fun.

Repeat the whole exercise (make beer with feed grain grain) but this time use a beer recipe calculator and a mash water calculator to determine the amounts of grain, water, hops, yeast and if (how much) pH correction is needed. You'll have a better chance of success and won't waste your time and money.

To get rid of the chaff/straw, try dropping the grain on a tarp in front of a fan (poor mans fanning mill). That's what I do (in addition to stirring) to deculm my home malted barley and wheat. Also make sure your homebrew mill is actually crushing the grains appropriately.

Your mash didn’t produce a sweet sugary wort. The hops had nothing to counter act.

He did use some actual malt (5lbs 2-row) and got an OG of 1.045, so there was some of something in there, but most likely used too much hops.


Here's a Brewers Friend screenshot - a best shot at your recipe, though I'm not sure of the volumes, yeast, and hops, etc... but should give you a start for filling in your own recipe. ~30% efficiency is horrible. The high IBU's are with just 1 oz each of the varieties of hops you specified. 74 IBUS @ 1.64 BU:GU, will not be drinkable at that gravity.

Also note the Diastatic Power of 17, well below the recommended level for a mash, though you did add amylase enzyme, which means your grain was not crushed or not crushed appropiately and the mash pH was not appropriate for the enzymes.

 

[Ninoid]

I made a beer last spring with 1/3 pilsner malt and 2/3 white baker's flour. BIAB without cereal mash. The beer was not bad, but the pain of squeezing the bag was great.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/wheat-flour.650832/page-2#post-10373120

 

[B-Rad13]

So I distilled it and it came out really good at about a 140 abv. No off flavors very clean and has a unique very pleasant aroma and flavor. I got other people to try it and they agreed.


Ok onto round 2
10 lb wheat
5 lb crimped oats
5 lb regular oats
10 lb two row.
I am thinking I start with like 12 gallons of water RO
How much hops would you suggest for a crisp neutral beer. Slightly hoppy aroma would be good but nothing crazy

 

[Snuffy]

It's kind of a rhetorical question. Time is money, but it's obviously not a fixed cost. Everybody's time is worth what it's worth to them.

If you factor labor cost into brewing then a 5 gal batch with a $40 kit probably results in over 5 bucks a pint. That's still cheaper than what you'd pay at most brew pubs. Thinking about it as a budget deal kinda ruins the whole thing tho. It's a hobby. My time is donated.
I enjoy the exploits of folks who test the boundaries of everything from cost to science to common sense. Personally, I wouldn't brew with animal feed unless I was in prison or dystopia. But I would try one if it looked ok.

 

[B-Rad13]

If you factor labor cost into brewing then a 5 gal batch with a $40 kit probably results in over 5 bucks a pint. That's still cheaper than what you'd pay at most brew pubs. Thinking about it as a budget deal kinda ruins the whole thing tho. It's a hobby. My time is donated.
I enjoy the exploits of folks who test the boundaries of everything from cost to science to common sense. Personally, I wouldn't brew with animal feed unless I was in prison or dystopia. But I would try one if it looked ok.

Good answer, I'm not like an alcoholic try to get my fix the cheapest I can. You can buy beer on sale for next to nothing and save yourself a lot of headaches. I used to have a boss who was an alky he would drink a 12 pack of keystone light every day starting at about 10 am by lunch time he was the best boss ever I lasted exactly 6 hours when he quit drinking

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

My cousin is a Commonwealth Attorney in Kentucky. A prosecutor. Unless things have changed, he shows up at people's houses with one Bud Light in his hand and the rest of the case under his arm. Personally, I think it makes more economic sense to buy cheap vodka and keep it in his pocket.

That case of beer is like a T-shirt that says, "I am an alcoholic."

 

[RM-MN]

Personally, I wouldn't brew with animal feed unless I was in prison or dystopia.

Would you dry brewing with animal feed if you had a grain bin with 1000 bushels in it?

 

[B-Rad13]

I doing an acid test at 104. And I started with 11 gallons of water figured I would sparge with one or two gallons more.

Would you dry brewing with animal feed if you had a grain bin with 1000 bushels in it?

I just wanted to play, just messing around see what happens that's doesn't anybody just wing it anymore. You know my favorite vacation I ever had was I just got in my car and just headed north no reservation no destination just ended up where I ended up. And I found one of my favorite states Maine

 

[AdjunctBrewer]

So I distilled it and it came out really good at about a 140 abv. No off flavors very clean and has a unique very pleasant aroma and flavor. I got other people to try it and they agreed.


Ok onto round 2
10 lb wheat
5 lb crimped oats
5 lb regular oats
10 lb two row.
I am thinking I start with like 12 gallons of water RO
How much hops would you suggest for a crisp neutral beer. Slightly hoppy aroma would be good but nothing crazy

At least demonstrate some effort before asking others, you've been given enough information to start.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator

 

[Snuffy]

Would you dry brewing with animal feed if you had a grain bin with 1000 bushels in it?

Well... yeah, probably so. But only if I was really bored and didn't mind that all the work may go for naught.

 

[B-Rad13]

I added 1oz cascade
1oz citra
2oz at cool down of mosaic
Starting gravity 1.68

 

[B-Rad13]

I think I got over 8 gallons of beer if it works. I ordered John Palmer's book. I still struggle on how to figure out my bitterness. Any good tips. Especially when you are not following a recipe

 

[fluketamer]

brewersfriend.com

how long did you boil the hops this time. and how much AA were the hops.

and i imagine your gravity is 1.068 not 1.68

 

[B-Rad13]

brewersfriend.com

how long did you boil the hops this time. and how much AA were the hops.

and i imagine your gravity is 1.068 not 1.68

Yes you are absolutely correct 1.068 I boiled for an hour
Mosaic is 14.6
Citra is 13.5
Cascade is 9.5

 

[fluketamer]

so in brewers friend a 1.068 wort with an ounce of 9.5 AA cascade hops should give you about 36 ibus which imo is a decent bittering charge for a lot of beer styles.
however i see it looks like you also boiled the ounce of 13.5 aa citra for an hour. thats a lot that comes out to 75 ibus which imo better have a damn sweet wort to not be super bitter again like your last attempt.


now you might also have an issue with the "cool down" hops . in general they dont contribute bitterness. however i have noticed that if the cool down period takes a long time especially around the 150 to 160 degree mark you WILL get some bitterness there which is hard to measure without trial and error tasting. ie whirpooling, hops does contribute some bitterenss (or at least percieved bitterness- whatever the heck that is).


you should start with a recipe and then try to approximate with your animal feed (if you feel you must)

i know you arent interested in this part but IMO hops are prolly the most expensive part of a beer. they are sometimes hard to acquire. you are wasting really good hops on this experiment.


if you absolutely must i would do
10 pounds of two row
1-2 pounds of wheat

1 oz cascade at 60 mins
1 oz of mosaic at 5 minutes.
1 oz citra dry hopped or at flameout.

and for heavens sake dont waste live yeast on this .

a pack of cheap cellar science cali would do well.

but still why?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

So I was curious if I could brew a drinkable beer from animal feed grade grains. So I went to my local mill and bought the following at 50 pounds each. Whole oats crimped oats, wheat and barley.
My recipe consisted of 5 pounds of each
2 row
Wheat
Barley
Oats
Crimped oats.
10 gallons of water
I cooked it for a couple of hours and used some enzymes to convert. I got an initial gravity of 1045
I used Gemini and cashmere hops and the English ale I forget the name. It's currently fermenting away. I will post updates
Has anyone else tried this before

I started brewing using feed store grain more than 40 years ago, on the farm that was all we had and it wasn't anything like today, we used new burn barrels and a full sack of grain, you can imagine the yield was bad, but a bag of grain was less than 3 dollars

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

You can use this for your avatar. Bracc 2.

 

[B-Rad13]

so in brewers friend a 1.068 wort with an ounce of 9.5 AA cascade hops should give you about 36 ibus which imo is a decent bittering charge for a lot of beer styles.
however i see it looks like you also boiled the ounce of 13.5 aa citra for an hour. thats a lot that comes out to 75 ibus which imo better have a damn sweet wort to not be super bitter again like your last attempt.


now you might also have an issue with the "cool down" hops . in general they dont contribute bitterness. however i have noticed that if the cool down period takes a long time especially around the 150 to 160 degree mark you WILL get some bitterness there which is hard to measure without trial and error tasting. ie whirpooling, hops does contribute some bitterenss (or at least percieved bitterness- whatever the heck that is).


you should start with a recipe and then try to approximate with your animal feed (if you feel you must)

i know you arent interested in this part but IMO hops are prolly the most expensive part of a beer. they are sometimes hard to acquire. you are wasting really good hops on this experiment.


if you absolutely must i would do
10 pounds of two row
1-2 pounds of wheat

1 oz cascade at 60 mins
1 oz of mosaic at 5 minutes.
1 oz citra dry hopped or at flameout.

and for heavens sake dont waste live yeast on this .

a pack of cheap cellar science cali would do well.

but still why?

Thanks yea I probably effed up again. I am waiting for my book. Is a book better than the brewing software?

 

[fluketamer]

brewers friend is very easy ,

but years ago when i learned and read about brewing. it was basically boil bittering hops for 60 mins.
for flavoring hops boil less than 30 mins,
for aroma 5 mins to flameout.

that was before all the fancy whirlpooling and oxygen free dry hopping.

back then bittering hops were generally high aa hops above say 9 or 10 aa. because it was cheaper to bitter with high aa hops then large amoutns of low aa hops. also aroma and flavor hops were conversely low aa because why would you want to waste a good bittering agent if the hops were only in the brew for a few mins,.

there wass no internet so you were stuck with the hops at the lhbs, homebrewing wasnt very popular especially in the city so the lhbs wouldnt stock much inventory anyway.

i remember like cascade, ekg, i think maybe chinook, some german hops like saaz and HM, literally that was it . definately not magnum or amarillo or simcoe or citra or anything at all exotic.

so not much choice anyway.

the brewing software is an adjunct to the book. you dont neeed it but its fun and makes life easier when making recipes.

the book will have a lot of recipes so you dont need any software at all.

 

[B-Rad13]

brewers friend is very easy ,

but years ago when i learned and read about brewing. it was basically boil bittering hops for 60 mins.
for flavoring hops boil less than 30 mins,
for aroma 5 mins to flameout.

that was before all the fancy whirlpooling and oxygen free dry hopping.

back then bittering hops were generally high aa hops above say 9 or 10 aa. because it was cheaper to bitter with high aa hops then large amoutns of low aa hops. also aroma and flavor hops were conversely low aa because why would you want to waste a good bittering agent if the hops were only in the brew for a few mins,.

there wass no internet so you were stuck with the hops at the lhbs, homebrewing wasnt very popular especially in the city so the lhbs wouldnt stock much inventory anyway.

i remember like cascade, ekg, i think maybe chinook, some german hops like saaz and HM, literally that was it . definately not magnum or amarillo or simcoe or citra or anything at all exotic.

so not much choice anyway.

the brewing software is an adjunct to the book. you dont neeed it but its fun and makes life easier when making recipes.

the book will have a lot of recipes so you dont need any software at all.

Cool thanks for all the input. As you suggested I will start with book. I have done a few all grain kits and they have come out great. Maybe it's the military math I'm using if a little is good then a whole lot must be better

 

[odie]

If grains are sold and labelled as unfit for human consumption, it's usually because they are unfit for human consumption. Either as a drink or as solid food.

just means it doesn't have FDA blessing or whatever...liability, etc... they just don't jump thru all the gov't hoops...doesn't mean it's not safe to eat.

whatever did farmers do for thousands of years before the FDA? Surely we have all long starved off into extinction...

 

[Miraculix]

Cool thanks for all the input. As you suggested I will start with book. I have done a few all grain kits and they have come out great. Maybe it's the military math I'm using if a little is good then a whole lot must be better

Open brewers friend, hack in your recipe, get a feel for how the ibus change with hop amount, timing and % alpha acid of the hops. It actually cannot get much simpler. If you have a question in between, go ask here, you'll get help here.

... I've never read a specific how to brew book. They tend to be partially outdated half a year after being published anyway.

 

[mac_1103]

Open brewers friend, hack in your recipe, get a feel for how the ibus change with hop amount, timing and % alpha advice of the hops. It actually cannot get much simpler.

This^

I've never read a specific how to brew book. They tend to be partially outdated half a year after being published anyway.

and that^

Books are great for learning about the art and science of brewing (or at least about the state of the art and science when the book was written). Software is great for tailoring a recipe to what you are actually using in terms of ingredients and equipment. Asking which is better is like asking whether a screwdriver is better than a wrench.

 

[RM-MN]

Asking which is better is like asking whether a screwdriver is better than a wrench.

In the right situation, those are both hammers anyway.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

When you pick up a crescent wrench at a flea market, you always have to check for those nail dents. I hate watching people abuse tools.

 

[mac_1103]

In the right situation, those are both hammers anyway.

And everything is a nail.

 

[mac_1103]

I hate watching people abuse tools.

I am fully capable of abusing a tool without misusing said tool.

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks yea I probably effed up again. I am waiting for my book. Is a book better than the brewing software?

Books are great if you want to understand the hows and whys, want to understand the underlying math, etc. Once you understand the math, you either want to write your own spreadsheet, or other software, or use software written by someone else. Doesn't make sense with the computer tools we have available to do arithmetic by hand - unless you really enjoy it.

Brew on

 

[B-Rad13]

Books are great if you want to understand the hows and whys, want to understand the underlying math, etc. Once you understand the math, you either want to write your own spreadsheet, or other software, or use software written by someone else. Doesn't make sense with the computer tools we have available to do arithmetic by hand - unless you really enjoy it.

Brew on

I am planning on getting a computer for my Brewshed. Then I will definitely invest in the brewing program. Also when I get some time to breath I am planning on spending my gi bill at cal State Davis's brewing program and no I am not planning on going commercial.i can't wait to stop working

 

[Miraculix]

I am planning on getting a computer for my Brewshed. Then I will definitely invest in the brewing program. Also when I get some time to breath I am planning on spending my gi bill at cal State Davis's brewing program and no I am not planning on going commercial.i can't wait to stop working

You literally just have to Google "brewer's friend recipe builder" and use the homepage you'll be linked to. No additional software needed.

Can be done on your phone too.

 

[mac_1103]

You literally just have to Google "brewer's friend recipe builder" and use the homepage you'll be linked to.

Or click on "Brewing Software" at the top of this page. Then select "calculators" under "tools."

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Books are great if you want to understand the hows and whys, want to understand the underlying math, etc. Once you understand the math, you either want to write your own spreadsheet, or other software, or use software written by someone else. Doesn't make sense with the computer tools we have available to do arithmetic by hand - unless you really enjoy it.

I would rather search the house for half an hour to find an impact driver than spend 40 seconds turning a screw by hand.

 

[AdjunctBrewer]

I am planning on getting a computer for my Brewshed. Then I will definitely invest in the brewing program.

The brewing software is free!

I shared it with you in #92. Just click this link and enter your recipe, take a screenshot to save it:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator

That's how I did the screenshot in #84.

 

[B-Rad13]

I'm certainly no expert, but I have read that distilling hopped beer isn't a great idea. Maybe the alpha acids come off with the ethanol?

Well I got some really good liquor out of it.

 

[B-Rad13]

The brewing software is free!

I shared it with you in #92. Just click this link and enter your recipe, take a screenshot to save it:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator

That's how I did the screenshot in #84.

I'm a little slow so many posts hard to take it all in and keep up with it . But I will check it out thanks

 

[B-Rad13]

I cold crashed it and I am keging it I will have my neighbor taste and tell you what he thinks. I had a taste it wasn't bad at all. I'll post a picture of it soon. This is just show the color

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I have a lot of dried beans that are past their prime, as well as some old Cream of Wheat. Maybe I'm sitting on a new grain bill and I don't know it.