can you make a beer with no barley, using wheat and oats?

[bracconiere]

There are times and places for discussions at the atomic level, the molecular level, planetary, and universal. I'm just saying read the room folks. Post #21 is where it went completely off the rails but I don't think the original question was ever answered directly.

Can we agree that the answer to the OP's question is "Yes, as long as at least half of the grain is malted, otherwise you'll have to add amylase".

naw, i think my post #9..

and it should be noted from my 100% white rice lesson and serious runs from it...if you do use amylase to convert, add glucoamylase to the fermenter also...other wise you're going to end up with a lot of left over dextrins, which are sorta soluble fiber......

 

[The Mad Brewer]

There are times and places for discussions at the atomic level, the molecular level, planetary, and universal. I'm just saying read the room folks. Post #21 is where it went completely off the rails but I don't think the original question was ever answered directly.

Can we agree that the answer to the OP's question is "Yes, as lon

naw, i think my post #9..

and it should be noted from my 100% white rice lesson and serious runs from it...if you do use amylase to convert, add glucoamylase to the fermenter also...other wise you're going to end up with a lot of left over dextrins, which are sorta soluble fiber......

im just thankful for all the knowledge everyone is sharing. So much to learn, but I will do so while drinking a Fine homebrew

 

[grampamark]

Biochemical processes sure do create enzymes during malting. The science just understands it. Are you saying that any/all of the references I provided are incorrect?

If you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m having a little fun with this off topic discussion. I like to observe those to whom being right all the time is really important.

As I, and others, have noted, this is largely a matter of semantics. Are the enzymes which convert starches into fermentable sugars “created” during the mash or “facilitated” by the mashing process? If the end result is beer, then it’s all good.

 

[bracconiere]

If you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m having a little fun with this off topic discussion. I like to observe those to whom being right all the time is really important.

As I, and others, have noted, this is largely a matter of semantics. Are the enzymes which convert starches into fermentable sugars “created” during the mash or “facilitated” by the mashing process? If the end result is beer, then it’s all good.

all the little kernels just want to grow up to be big boy when they're sprouts.....then wish they were still young when they're in the mash....

 

[cmac62]

This is a good one. I have learned some stuff. I was just going to say make sure to add some Amylase to the mash, but since I have never done anything like make an all wheat or millet or anything other than barley beer, and it was always malted barley, I have no clue. @bracconiere I like the idea of a grocery store challenge thread. Get on that would you. LOL

 

[bracconiere]

I like the idea of a grocery store challenge thread. Get on that would you. LOL

we'd have to make hawain punch and all juice off limits...be too easy. it'd have be stricly from the grocery store, how can you convert starch to sugar... which means sugar would have to be off limits too.

 

[cmac62]

we'd have to make hawain punch and all juice off limits...be too easy. it'd have be stricly from the grocery store, how can you convert starch to sugar... which means sugar would have to be off limits too.

Would it be cheating to use whole foods as your grocery? LOL

Now it is really off the chain. LOL

 

[bracconiere]

Would it be cheating to use whole foods as your grocery? LOL

Now it is really off the chain. LOL

if i can use the animal "grocery" store...i'm going to so win...but brown rice sprouts, i'm thinking 32oz sprouted brown rice, 5 lb flour.....some tapioca....could be interesting. add some left over tapioca balls back on serving, call it bubble brew?

edit: and yes you can use wheat flour for beer! which is on topic!

 

[Miraculix]

I can buy bakers rye malt at the grocery store here...... not cheap and small packs but still malt.

 

[bracconiere]

I can buy bakers rye malt at the grocery store here...... not cheap and small packs but still malt.

sounds like we have a game a foot....

 

[Miraculix]

sounds like we have a game a foot....

No hops at Rewe though

 

[bracconiere]

No hops at Rewe though

i'd love to try a pepper stout now!

 

[Drewch]

Sounds like it’s gruit ale time, then.

 

[cmac62]

Sounds like it’s gruit ale time, then.

How about a couple of these in the brew. Citra Bomb One Sparkling Hop Tea, 16 fl oz at Whole Foods Market

 

[cmac62]

FYI I started a thread The Grocery Store Challenge . Check it out, could be fun. I'm off to Whole Foods. LOL

 

[cmac62]

i'd love to try a pepper stout now!

I once brewed a lemon pepper saison. it was really good.

 

[bracconiere]

Sounds like it’s gruit ale time, then.

now that comment IS off topic, this isn't the 'true beer' thread!

 

[bwible]

What if you cant get Barley or its in real short supply. Also isn't the Ukraine and Russia the big exporters. I have been hearing rumors of a shortage coming.

Then its time to drink wine or mead

 

[bwible]

I have seen a documentary on beer in Asia and there was aplace using Red beans, because Barley was hard to find and some other things like potatoes, which is intriguing.

This reminds of at least one book out there that talks about brewing in Colonial America. Well first they decided to land where they did because they were running out of beer.

The first people that came here didn’t have barley or any of the normal things used to make beer. They used what was here and made beer out of many things like squash, pumpkins, persimmons, mushrooms, and other things. I think molasses was another big thing they used. That would be some good reading.

And then of course there were the Aztecs and their chica.

 

[bwible]

https://vinepair.com/articles/chicha-ancient-history-spit-malt/

 

[The Mad Brewer]

Then its time to drink wine or mead

After seeing the news yesterday, I have barley to plant and I think some of my lawn is going to become a micro Barley field along with any free space in the garden. Maybe I can get 2 crops.

 

[The Mad Brewer]

After seeing the news yesterday, I have barley to plant and I think some of my lawn is going to become a micro Barley field along with any free space in the garden. Maybe I can get 2 crops.

That way if worse comes to worse i will have some barley to add and if I have to go all oats or all wheat thats ok too

 

[Miraculix]

That way if worse comes to worse i will have some barley to add and if I have to go all oats or all wheat thats ok too

How's the head retention of all oat beers?

 

[The Mad Brewer]

How's the head retention of all oat beers?

Not sure im new to brewing all oat or wheat. Gonna try one this spring and will let you know

 

[VikeMan]

How's the head retention of all oat beers?

While I haven't done a 100% Oat Beer, I'd be pretty comfortable betting on lousy foam retention. Oats are in general bad for foam, due to high lipid content. Lipids compromise the stability of the surface layer of foam bubbles.

 

[Miraculix]

While I haven't done a 100% Oat Beer, I'd be pretty comfortable betting on lousy foam retention. Oats are in general bad for foam, due to high lipid content. Lipids compromise the stability of the surface layer of foam bubbles.

This is what I thought as well, but it would be nice to hear the experience from somebody with first hand experience.

 

[bwible]

After seeing the news yesterday, I have barley to plant and I think some of my lawn is going to become a micro Barley field along with any free space in the garden. Maybe I can get 2 crops.

I’m going to my nearest shop this weekend and getting a sack. I’m due anyway, down to about 5 lbs left out my last one.

 

[VikeMan]

As I, and others, have noted, this is largely a matter of semantics.

Well, you can keep calling it semantics, and I'll keep calling it important. My way, people are less likely to think they can do the impossible. "Semantics" is not an excuse for false claims, brought forward repeatedly, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Are the enzymes which convert starches into fermentable sugars “created” during the mash or “facilitated” by the mashing process? If the end result is beer, then it’s all good.

Well, we were talking about whether or not malting creates enzymes, and it certainly does. But if you want to talk about the mash instead, no the mash doesn't create saccharification enzymes. But the mash does liberate starches so that they can be reached by the enzymes.

 

[madscientist451]

If you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m having a little fun with this off topic discussion. I like to observe those to whom being right all the time is really important.

I don't think the OP ever asked about unmalted wheat and oats, just is it possible to use just wheat and oat and nothing else?
Hey, is OK, if that's what people want to discuss, but getting back on track here.....
From the book Radical Brewing, there's a recipe for an all wheat porter called Dick's Elixer. If you substitute 30% oat malt for some of the wheat, you'd likely have a pretty decent brew.

 

[bracconiere]

After seeing the news yesterday, I have barley to plant and I think some of my lawn is going to become a micro Barley field along with any free space in the garden. Maybe I can get 2 crops.

I’m going to my nearest shop this weekend and getting a sack. I’m due anyway, down to about 5 lbs left out my last one.

what news?

 

[MicroMickey]

Once I brewed an all-wheat Porter which scored 46 in competition. That swelled my head for a few weeks! I also have brewed a Gratzer with 100% Weyermann smoked wheat. It certainly can be done.

 

[The Mad Brewer]

what news?

Russia - Ukraine thing, Both are top Barley Exporters

 

[bracconiere]

Russia - Ukraine thing, Both are top Barley Exporters

@grampamark you got our backs right? as long as we make it worth your while? and first i've heard of it, i thought the ukraine was IN russia?

Members 172,222


(i live under a rock. )

 

[JAReeves]

@grampamark you got our backs right? as long as we make it worth your while? and first i've heard of it, i thought the ukraine was IN russia?

Members 172,222


(i live under a rock. )

The Ukraine was part of the USSR until that collapsed, not part of Russia. Different language, ethnicity, culture, etc. I get the Throwback Thursday idea, but I think Putin has taken it a little too far.

 

[camonick]

Russia - Ukraine thing, Both are top Barley Exporters

I read an article not too long ago that said the Ukraine produced about 20% of the world’s barley used for brewing purposes. The potential loss of that market will have a noticeable impact on prices and supply. We all might be searching for alternative fermentables.

 

[Miraculix]

Once I brewed an all-wheat Porter which scored 46 in competition. That swelled my head for a few weeks! I also have brewed a Gratzer with 100% Weyermann smoked wheat. It certainly can be done.

That is actually a really great idea. What a velvety stout that would create! Count me in!

 

[The Mad Brewer]

The Ukraine was part of the USSR until that collapsed, not part of Russia. Different language, ethnicity, culture, etc. I get the Throwback Thursday idea, but I think Putin has taken it a little too far.

Im just thinking tht Both are big Barley exporters and the US Barley growers are for the big brewers from what I can find, so I am looking for some other avenues. I can get wheat and oats and spelt to malt from the Amish. Maybe US barley will make a comeback

 

[VikeMan]

we SOOOOO need to have a thread on HBT for that!

(and i get a 48% effec rating out of beersmith for that...but if i take the corn out, it's ~75%, so i don't think the corn added anything but the enzymes. which is why i think you need to do a mostly cereal mash with corn malt, then just enough reserved corn malt to convert once cooled to mash temp?..)

Update here... it turns out another club member also malted his own corn for the grocery store challenge. In his case, it was a 100% corn beer. No cereal mash. I don't know the specifics of his weights and volumes, but it was ~ a 6% ABV beer.

I had expected low "efficiency" with my beer. I had hoped for better, but wasn't surpised by what I got, for the following reasons:

1) Home malted corn, with random "popcorn" strain corn (more water, less starch than other strains/grades), with no basis for an expected PPG. No, a random number from the internet or brewing software is not it. (So not really a "mash efficiency" issue, but a PPG potential issue.)

2) I let the germination go much longer than for a normal malting. The idea was to get as much enzyme development as possible (since corn is normally weak in enzymes), but at the expense of potential extract.

3) No cereal mash for the pearled barley. This stuff is incredibly hard. And the near pulverized bits were still hard at the end of the mash.

There was a large amount of extra wort in the mash tun. While this wort left behind affected mash efficiency, it didn't affect extract efficiency.

 

[The Mad Brewer]

My oats are about 50% germinated so hopefully I will be drying them by Sunday. Then I am doing another 5 lbs of oats malting (I need more malting containers) and I decided to add 5 lbs of malted wheat. Not sure what im making, probably a pale ale.

 

[The Mad Brewer]

My all oat beer turned out good it was a stout , the one thing I realized without barley the beer looks like chocolate milk though it tastes fine it's really cloudy. It also has a very fiberoud effect , i will just leave it at that