Brewing mishap. Thoughts?

[Brulian]

Most ale yeast strains will attenuation from 65-80% as an average. To get the specific details, consult the yeast manufacturer's website, which will tell you the average attenuation for the strain you are using.

My OG was 1033 (ideal was 1036) and on the instructions it says that P1 takes 7 days. I took a reading on day 5: 1012; Day 6: 1012 and then technically tomorrow will be my last day so ill pull a reading.
However it says that the Ale FG should reach 1006 so therefore I am still off.
If tomorrow the reading is the same (1012) that means it has been at a constant for 3 days therefore is the fermentation ready even though the FG is higher then it should be?

 

[Yooper]

1.006 is not a realistic FG, so you're fine!

 

[Brulian]

1.006 is not a realistic FG, so you're fine!

So you reckon if tomorrow the reading is 1.012 then I should proceed to the next step (Adding fining then seal again for 48hrs) or leave it for a few more days?

 

[kestrelbrewing]

Hi,
Thank you IslandLizard for your input.
Do you think a regular stove will be an appropriate heat source for a larger pot?

And to get the wort temp down to 20C I used ice, placing the pot in the sink with ice & water and I put about 2kg of Ice in the fermentation bucket which I poured my wort over to cool it down even more. I got to 20C in less then 10minutes however do you think that technique will work for a larger pot? Maybe just increasing the volume of ice in relation to the volume of hot wort.

Another trick to keep wort from boiling over that a chef friend taught me: Leave a wooden spoon sitting across the top of the kettle.

Cooling trick:
1. Get a large funnel (for example: Anti Splash Funnel - Home Brewing Co)
2. Get a bag of ice from the liquor store. The ones I use are 7 pounds ±3 kilos.
3. Fill the funnel with ice
4. Slowly and carefully pour your wort into the funnel.
5. Replenish ice as needed

Now you're aerating, adding some of your topping up water, and cooling all at the same time.

In my experience, 7 lbs of ice melted into 3 gallons of extract wort will cool you to 20-3ºC for a 5 gallon (±20 liter)batch of beer no problem.

 

[Cro Magnon]

Another trick to keep wort from boiling over that a chef friend taught me: Leave a wooden spoon sitting across the top of the kettle.

Cooling trick:
1. Get a large funnel (for example: Anti Splash Funnel - Home Brewing Co)
2. Get a bag of ice from the liquor store. The ones I use are 7 pounds ±3 kilos.
3. Fill the funnel with ice
4. Slowly and carefully pour your wort into the funnel.
5. Replenish ice as needed

Now you're aerating, adding some of your topping up water, and cooling all at the same time.

In my experience, 7 lbs of ice melted into 3 gallons of extract wort will cool you to 20-3ºC for a 5 gallon (±20 liter)batch of beer no problem.

Nice hack. I'm concerned about the store bought ice though..what about sanitization? If we boiled water, and set ice with it at home, would this be better? Also I'm guessing, the funnel and the vessel we are pouring into would have to be sanitized..?

 

[Yooper]

So you reckon if tomorrow the reading is 1.012 then I should proceed to the next step (Adding fining then seal again for 48hrs) or leave it for a few more days?

I don't use finings myself, but if you want to use them, yes that's fine.

 

[Yooper]

Nice hack. I'm concerned about the store bought ice though..what about sanitization? If we boiled water, and set ice with it at home, would this be better? Also I'm guessing, the funnel and the vessel we are pouring into would have to be sanitized..?

Yes, everything should be sanitized. And using your own ice is recommended if you're doing that.

 

[kestrelbrewing]

Nice hack. I'm concerned about the store bought ice though..what about sanitization? If we boiled water, and set ice with it at home, would this be better? Also I'm guessing, the funnel and the vessel we are pouring into would have to be sanitized..?

The funnel/ice combo is basically the same thing as your ice in the bucket idea but it aerates the wort and adds a little more control over volume.

Sanitization: Yes, it's a good idea to make sure everything is sanitized. That being said, keep in mind that at this point you're still dealing with boiling liquid. Sanitize everything on the hot side, but anything you use after wort has cooled should be obsessively sanitized.

Ice water: Not sure what the situation is for you. The company that makes the ice they sell at my local liquor store uses RO (reverse osmosis) which they claim makes the ice clearer.

 

[Brulian]

My instructions say that after 7 days I should add the fining to my brew, 1 packet of dry fining's to 150ml of boiling water, stir and then add to the brew.
To be able to to add the 150ml of water mixed with fining to the brew I would need to open the fermentation seal and pour the hot liquid to the brew.
Firstly is adding hot liquid to the brew okay? And wouldn't opening the seal introduce oxygen to my brew, iv'e read and heard countless times that that's a no-no.

 

[Cro Magnon]

The funnel/ice combo is basically the same thing as your ice in the bucket idea but it aerates the wort and adds a little more control over volume.

Sanitization: Yes, it's a good idea to make sure everything is sanitized. That being said, keep in mind that at this point you're still dealing with boiling liquid. Sanitize everything on the hot side, but anything you use after wort has cooled should be obsessively sanitized.

Ice water: Not sure what the situation is for you. The company that makes the ice they sell at my local liquor store uses RO (reverse osmosis) which they claim makes the ice clearer.

Thanks, yes indeed I think sanitization would be prudent. (maybe it was an obvious inference and I didn't even need to state it but I'm still a n00b).

I guess you are confident about the source of ice, which over there may very well be trustworty. Here in India, however, there is no way I would use purchased ice directly in my wort. I will definitely have to boil and set my own ice. Which brings me to another question - Even after boiling, cooling and setting ice....the ice is sitting uncovered in the ice tray in the freezer. Isn't there still a risk of infection? I mean I have used it twice before with no problems but I still don't know if it's safe....thoughts?

 

[IslandLizard]

My instructions say that after 7 days I should add the fining to my brew, 1 packet of dry fining's to 150ml of boiling water, stir and then add to the brew.
To be able to to add the 150ml of water mixed with fining to the brew I would need to open the fermentation seal and pour the hot liquid to the brew.
Firstly is adding hot liquid to the brew okay? And wouldn't opening the seal introduce oxygen to my brew, iv'e read and heard countless times that that's a no-no.

That doesn't sound right.
What kind of finings are they?

What kind of fermenter are you using?

 

[Brulian]

That doesn't sound right.
What kind of finings are they?

What kind of fermenter are you using?

On the fining packet it just says 'beer fining 22L' so it doesnt say what type it specifically is.

Im using a simple plastic 22L fermenting bucket.

 

[bruce_the_loon]

I think those are gelatine finings, I use them sometimes and you have to dissolve it in hot water before adding it in. You just have to open the lid just enough to pour it in. I agree with the others that 7 days is too short to be certain that the fermentation has completed. I've currently got an amber ale in the fermenter that started at 1.039 last Sunday and has only reached 1.019 today and is still dropping. That's with a fermenter temp of 18 degrees and ambient of 20 after a very cold week last week.

Fining won't affect the fermentation too much, so you could go ahead and do it already and then check the gravity after 2 days. But be prepared to wait another two days if the gravity reading shifts.

Regarding bottles, Bottles, Growlers, Crown Corks - Beer Bottles - Bottles has glass bottles in 340ml. 500ml and 660ml in stock and prices might be better. They are working and shipping at the moment. Just had an order of kit shipped Friday from them. Unlike the other online retailers, they will send you a quote including shipping after you submit the cart checkout and payment is via EFT.

 

[IslandLizard]

On the fining packet it just says 'beer fining 22L' so it doesnt say what type it specifically is.

Im using a simple plastic 22L fermenting bucket.

Finings are not always necessary, and sometimes even unwanted. Cold crashing/cold storage for a few days to several weeks or even months (Lagering) can be sufficient.

Finings can be added to beer to help precipitate suspended yeast and haze causing proteins, speeding up the clearing of the beer. They are usually used in combination with cold crashing/cold storage.

(Unflavored) gelatin (a whitish powder) is one of those finings often used, but some brewers use Isinglass (a liquid in a small plastic baggie), a product derived from a certain species of fish's swim bladders.

If deciding to add finings to the fermenter, it's typically added after fermentation has completed and the yeast has gone through her conditioning phase. Not after xx days, because yeast... is on her own time schedule. IOW, yeast should determine our timing of actions, not the clock or calendar.

 

[Cro Magnon]

Hey

Finings are not always necessary, and sometimes even unwanted. Cold crashing/cold storage for a few days to several weeks or even months (Lagering) can be sufficient.

Finings can be added to beer to help precipitate suspended yeast and haze causing proteins, speeding up the clearing of the beer. They are usually used in combination with cold crashing/cold storage.

(Unflavored) gelatin (a whitish powder) is one of those finings often used, but some brewers use Isinglass (a liquid in a small plastic baggie), a product derived from a certain species of fish's swim bladders.

If deciding to add finings to the fermenter, it's typically added after fermentation has completed and the yeast has gone through her conditioning phase. Not after xx days, because yeast... is on her own time schedule. IOW, yeast should determine our timing of actions, not the clock or calendar.

Hey Island...Everywhere I've read about cold crashing and lagering , always assumes the reader is familiar with the process...for eg....'ferment at 22C, the cold crash and lager for xxx'...but I still have no idea how to actually cold crash OR lager, and what the lagering process involves...can you point me in the right direction? A good thread or article DETAILING the process of both cold crashing and lagering? (I know the two are not connected, but just saying I don't know about either)

 

[IslandLizard]

Hey

Hey Island...Everywhere I've read about cold crashing and lagering , always assumes the reader is familiar with the process...for eg....'ferment at 22C, the cold crash and lager for xxx'...but I still have no idea how to actually cold crash OR lager, and what the lagering process involves...can you point me in the right direction? A good thread or article DETAILING the process of both cold crashing and lagering? (I know the two are not connected, but just saying I don't know about either)

You simply need a refrigerator or a temp controlled freezer, or for larger volumes, a cold room. You want to keep the beer at 30-34F (-1C to +1C) ideally, but anything under, say ~40F (5C), works well. The colder the better and faster it works, but with diminishing returns. Same for time, the difference between 3 days and 6 days can be substantial. But 2 weeks vs. 4 weeks, or 2 months vs. 4 months can very subtle.

Depending on the residual gravity and alcohol content of the beer and your chilling system (undershooting set temps), be careful going much below 30F/-1C, the beer may start to become slushy or freeze under those ranges, and may crack or damage your lagering vessels. I prefer to use kegs for long term lagering, but will use my fermenters for routine cold crashing.

It's best to prevent air from entering your vessels while it chills, as the oxygen can and will oxidize your beer. Some beers are more sensitive/reactive to oxidation than others, but they all suffer, and it cannot be reversed.

Lagering (stored cold) is the same as extended cold crashing. Maybe it becomes "Lagering" after 2 weeks, and it probably has to be a Lager.

Hope someone can post some good, informative links.

 

[Cro Magnon]

You simply need a refrigerator or a temp controlled freezer, or for larger volumes, a cold room. You want to keep the beer at 30-34F (-1C to +1C) ideally, but anything under, say ~40F (5C), works well. The colder the better and faster it works, but with diminishing returns. Same for time, the difference between 3 days and 6 days can be substantial. But 2 weeks vs. 4 weeks, or 2 months vs. 4 months can very subtle.

Depending on the residual gravity and alcohol content of the beer and your chilling system (undershooting set temps), be careful going much below 30F/-1C, the beer may start to become slushy or freeze under those ranges, and may crack or damage your lagering vessels. I prefer to use kegs for long term lagering, but will use my fermenters for routine cold crashing.

It's best to prevent air from entering your vessels while it chills, as the oxygen can and will oxidize your beer. Some beers are more sensitive/reactive to oxidation than others, but they all suffer, and it cannot be reversed.

Lagering (stored cold) is the same as extended cold crashing. Maybe it becomes "Lagering" after 2 weeks, and it probably has to be a Lager.

Hope someone can post some good, informative links.

Thank you for that very detailed reply! So basically, cold crashing is nothing but bring down the temp rapidly (done in order to 'clear' the beer), and lagering is nothing but storing it at lower temperatures for an extended period of time? Is lagering done before the priming and carbonation? So for eg, if we prime, carbonate at room temp, and then condition in the fridge....this doesn't count as lagering does it? I'm assuming lagering is still fermentation but at a controlled, much slower rate? What is the purpose of this and what does it contribute to the overall flavour, clarity etc of a lager? And umm....is there any primitive way to do this..like if you don't have a dedicated fridge/freezer?

 

[Gruel]

If you are bottling, and carbonating in the bottle, I think your cold crashing and lagering has to be done after the yeast has carbonated the beer in the bottle. I wouldn't worry too much about cold crashing and lagering. Main thing is to get the sugar (or malt extract, or whatever) dose right so your beer ends up carbonated but not sweet. It sounds like you are mostly there! Good luck!

 

[IslandLizard]

Thank you for that very detailed reply! So basically, cold crashing is nothing but bring down the temp rapidly (done in order to 'clear' the beer), and lagering is nothing but storing it at lower temperatures for an extended period of time? Is lagering done before the priming and carbonation? So for eg, if we prime, carbonate at room temp, and then condition in the fridge....this doesn't count as lagering does it? I'm assuming lagering is still fermentation but at a controlled, much slower rate? What is the purpose of this and what does it contribute to the overall flavour, clarity etc of a lager? And umm....is there any primitive way to do this..like if you don't have a dedicated fridge/freezer?

Lagering in bottles is done after priming and carbonation.

Although you could bulk lager for a month or longer to clarify, then fill bottles to prime and carbonate. You do need to add new (bottling) yeast with the priming sugar, as there won't be enough left after lagering for that long.

There's NO fermentation during lagering, yeast won't be active at those low temps. Lagering is purely for clarifying the beer, removing the yeast, improving the flavor. Lager yeasts are notoriously powdery, staying in suspension for weeks, months if not lagered. (Cold) lagering will precipitate them faster.

 

[Brulian]

If you are bottling, and carbonating in the bottle, I think your cold crashing and lagering has to be done after the yeast has carbonated the beer in the bottle. I wouldn't worry too much about cold crashing and lagering. Main thing is to get the sugar (or malt extract, or whatever) dose right so your beer ends up carbonated but not sweet. It sounds like you are mostly there! Good luck!

Yup, I think it will be done soon. Im leaving it to ferment for a few more days until friday then it would of been around 2 weeks of fermenting and then ill proceed to bottling and priming.

Almost there, its exciting stuff.

 

[kestrelbrewing]

Lagering (stored cold) is the same as extended cold crashing. Maybe it becomes "Lagering" after 2 weeks, and it probably has to be a Lager.

Actually, an ale can be lagered (altbier and kölsch for example, and Westvletteren 8 and 12 spend a month or two below 50ºF according to Hieronymus). Similarly, a lager can be made without lagering (California Common AKA Steam beer before Anchor decided to trademark that name).

Decent summary here: What Is the Difference between Ale and Lager?

 

[IslandLizard]

Actually, an ale can be lagered (altbier and kölsch for example, and Westvletteren 8 and 12 spend a month or two below 50ºF according to Hieronymus). Similarly, a lager can be made without lagering (California Common AKA Steam beer before Anchor decided to trademark that name).

Decent summary here: What Is the Difference between Ale and Lager?

Excellent points, I forgot about those Lagered Ales. And non-lagered Lager type beers.

 

[kestrelbrewing]

Excellent points, I forgot about those Lagered Ales. And non-lagered Lager type beers.

Yeah, the confusion comes from the term "lagering". The consequence of adapting foreign terminology that was developed before we knew what yeast was let alone that there were different strains that did different things … keeps the nOObs on their toes though.

 

[Brulian]

So I ended up doing two weeks primary fermentation and last night I bottled my brew, looks like some good beer.
Im going to leave the bottles for 2 weeks to complete carbonation at room temp.

Just one question: When I opened the fermentor my ale brew smelt sweet almost like a lite ice tea, what is the reason for it smelling so sweet, asking just out of curiosity.
Hopefully 2F will remove most of the sweet smell as I prefer bitter flavours especially in beer.

 

[IslandLizard]

Just one question: When I opened the fermentor my ale brew smelt sweet almost like a lite ice tea, what is the reason for it smelling so sweet, asking just out of curiosity.
Hopefully 2F will remove most of the sweet smell as I prefer bitter flavours especially in beer.

All (non-sour) beer does smell kinda sweet. What was your FG, and did the beer taste sweet when you bottled it?

 

[Brulian]

All (non-sour) beer does smell kinda sweet. What was your FG, and did the beer taste sweet when you bottled it?

The FG was about 1.012/11.
The taste was not as sweet as the smell more like a lighter beer which is a good sign.

 

[IslandLizard]

The FG was about 1.012/11.
The taste was not as sweet as the smell more like a lighter beer which is a good sign.

That FG sounds a little high for a 1.033 OG beer (that's the gravity you ended up with, right?). That explains the sweetness.
But FG highly depends on ingredients and yeast used. After 2 weeks at fairly high ferm temps for an ale it should be done.

 

[Brulian]

That FG sounds a little high for a 1.033 OG beer (that's the gravity you ended up with, right?). That explains the sweetness.
But FG highly depends on ingredients and yeast used. After 2 weeks at fairly high ferm temps for an ale it should be done.

Yeah my FG ended up a little higher then expected (Ideal 1.006) but the gravity reading was consistent (1.012/11) for 5 days.
Its going to be low ABV but I think this stems from the scenario from my original message with the boiling mishap so im not too surprise with the low ABV.
Do you reckon with these readings the ale will turn out to taste sweet or is that just the aroma of the brew?



But regardless this was a cool experience and in my next brew ill do things better and try not make the same mistakes.
Thinking of making an IPA next. The ferm temp (18 to 22C) is similar to ales ferm temp correct, thats what ive read.

 

[IslandLizard]

Do you reckon with these readings the ale will turn out to taste sweet or is that just the aroma of the brew?

But regardless this was a cool experience and in my next brew ill do things better and try not make the same mistakes.
Thinking of making an IPA next. The ferm temp (18 to 22C) is similar to ales ferm temp correct, thats what ive read.

Don't worry, you made your own beer !!!
It should be quite enjoyable when nicely carbonated and drank cold.

You'll get better at it with time, keep reading on how to brew and learning the ropes as you do it.

 

[Brulian]

Its almost been 1 week since I bottled my brew to allow for carbonation. Ill leave it for 2 weeks in total however my question is:
Bottle carbonation for 2 weeks and then place in fridge? If so for how long?
Or is it 2 weeks total including fridge time for example: bottle carbonation process at room temp for 12 days and then place in fridge for 2 days?