Brewing lighter ABV versions without compromising flavor?

[luckybeagle]

Hi there,

I'm readying to brew my 8th all-grain batch -- a Belgian style Blonde ale. The recipe I found is from a brewer whose recipes I really like.

The ABV comes out to 7.66% when I plug the recipe in to Brewers Friend, assuming a 75% attenuation on the Belgian Ardennes Yeast. I'd like to see this recipe produce a 6 - 6.5% ABV.

I'm reusing yeast cake from the same author's Tripel and achieved an 86% attenuation with it, which pushed my ABV 1.3 points higher than I wanted/intended.

My questions are:

1. Should I reduce the grain bill so that each fermentable makes up the same grist percentage until I hit a lower target OG?
2. Should I just reduce the cane sugar addition until I get to the desired ABV?
3. Should I base all of these calculations off of my Tripel's attenuation percentage, or the percentage indicated by Wyeast for that particular strain?
4. Should I just increase my pre-boil water content instead, and keep the grain bill the same?

Thanks in advance!

 

[brewcat]

Reducing the grains would be a good start. I'd also base the recipe from a higher attenuation. Maybe 80%

 

[MT_Keg]

I have been reading through this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/sub-1-030-beers.378450/

 

[bobeer]

I'd use a recipe calculator and put the base recipe in and then adjust the ABV to where you want it. Most calculators will adjust the grist for you to meet the ABV/IBU/SRM/batch size, etc... change that you make.

 

[gregkeller]

I have found that when trying to make a beer more sessionable, I need to keep the non-base grains pretty much the same. I think of those as my "flavor" ingredients and I don't want less flavor in the beer, just less alcohol. So I will usually start by dropping just the base grain to get the ABV where I want it. Then I'll look at it and make sure that none of the grains seem out of line to the point where they are gonna change the nature of the beer. For a belgian blonde, I'd just drop a few pounds of the base (pilsner, i suspect) and leave everything else the same.

 

[shoreman]

I'd suggest picking up this book, it will help you formulate the beer down:

https://amzn.to/2SGZQxv
Session Beers: Brewing for Flavor and Balance Kindle Edition
by Jennifer Talley (Author)

 

[chewyheel]

I'd suggest picking up this book, it will help you formulate the beer down:

https://amzn.to/2SGZQxv
Session Beers: Brewing for Flavor and Balance Kindle Edition
by Jennifer Talley (Author)

I second that, great book with excellent recipes.

 

[Dgallo]

Think math... you can’t just drop the base grains and keep the specialty grains the same. That will cause the specialty grains to become a larger percentage of your gist and have a greater flavor impact on the beer.

You need to find proportional percentage you are reducing the abv by and then you will reduce each grain and hops by that same percentage. That will allow you to replicate the beer but at a lower abv

 

[schmurf]

I'd suggest picking up this book, it will help you formulate the beer down:

https://amzn.to/2SGZQxv
Session Beers: Brewing for Flavor and Balance Kindle Edition
by Jennifer Talley (Author)

It's a great book with good advices, but I wouldn't say a 6 - 6.5% beer is session beer. Maybe some advices in the book is applicable though. I have had good use of it for beer in the 3.5 to 4.5% range.

 

[shoreman]

It's a great book with good advices, but I wouldn't say a 6 - 6.5% beer is session beer. Maybe some advices in the book is applicable though. I have had good use of it for beer in the 3.5 to 4.5% range.

Yeah the book addresses the title of this post, but not the 6% mentioned in the body.

If it was me I would just lower the amount of grain and sugar until I hit my target OG, brew it once and work on the recipe from there in future batches. If you get too much attenuation look at mash process and yeast strain.

 

[dmtaylor]

I think Ardennes yeast is diastaticus. Like the OP, I've averaged 85% attenuation with it. I'd suggest an entirely different yeast strain with lower attenuation. Flavors won't be the same, but if attenuation matters, that's what OP should try. How about WLP530/3787, that one averages 76% attenuation for me. Or try another. Also, eliminate all candi sugars or other simple sugars, they just dry it out all the more. Aiming for lowest acceptable OG is also important in the recipe design. Use less base malt to take you there.

 

[gregkeller]

I agree in theory to the idea that you need to lower all the grains by the same percent to keep the beer the same, but in practice, I find that I don't get that. I've found that I have to work harder to keep flavor and mouthfeel the same in low abv beers (even dropping an 8% beer to 6%). I love session IPA's, but almost every commercial version I've had falls short and is too thin and watery. When I brew my session IPA, I switch the yeast out to wlp002, so that I end up with a finishing gravity close to where the full octane version is with a more attenuative yeast.

I think of my specialty grains as adding discrete units of flavor. If I want my beer to have "x" units of flavor, then it needs "y" lbs of whatever specialty grain. If I want the same flavor beer, no matter the alcohol (within reason) then I don't adjust the specialty grains. I see my base grains as adding fermentables to be turned into alcohol. If I want to keep the beer the same and reduce the alcohol, then I should only adjust the base malt. This obviously wouldn't work in extreme examples (especially really big beers like a barleywine where base grains, because there is so much of it, contributes a major flavor component), but I think it works for dropping 2-3% from a beer. Beyond that, say converting a double IPA to a session IPA would require a little more finesse than just dropping a few pounds of base malt. I don't have Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles infront of me, but if I remember the only difference between the different scottish ales (60/70/80 shilling) was the amount of base malt.

 

[Dgallo]

I agree in theory to the idea that you need to lower all the grains by the same percent to keep the beer the same, but in practice, I find that I don't get that. I've found that I have to work harder to keep flavor and mouthfeel the same in low abv beers (even dropping an 8% beer to 6%). I love session IPA's, but almost every commercial version I've had falls short and is too thin and watery. When I brew my session IPA, I switch the yeast out to wlp002, so that I end up with a finishing gravity close to where the full octane version is with a more attenuative yeast.

I think of my specialty grains as adding discrete units of flavor. If I want my beer to have "x" units of flavor, then it needs "y" lbs of whatever specialty grain. If I want the same flavor beer, no matter the alcohol (within reason) then I don't adjust the specialty grains. I see my base grains as adding fermentables to be turned into alcohol. If I want to keep the beer the same and reduce the alcohol, then I should only adjust the base malt. This obviously wouldn't work in extreme examples (especially really big beers like a barleywine where base grains, because there is so much of it, contributes a major flavor component), but I think it works for dropping 2-3% from a beer. Beyond that, say converting a double IPA to a session IPA would require a little more finesse than just dropping a few pounds of base malt. I don't have Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles infront of me, but if I remember the only difference between the different scottish ales (60/70/80 shilling) was the amount of base malt.

I recant my comment previously. For some reason or other I was thinking of explaining how to properly scale a recipe down, however that’s not what the OP was asking about.

 

[Diomed12]

For reducing the ABV, of the 4 approaches that you mention my suggestion would be to reduce base malt. I would suggest reducing base malt because of what the style - Belgian Blonde in this case - is trying to achieve overall. Typically in this style you are looking for yeast flavor first, and then a thinner body/dry finish with a bit of malt flavor. Assuming that you are somewhere in the ballpark of 80% base malt/10% sugar/10% specialty grain, dropping base malt by 5% to 10% should not impact yeast flavor and you will still achieve a dry finish with the sugar without amping up malt flavor so much given the lighter SRM specialty grains you would likely be using.

If my assumption of your grain bill is wrong, then the adjustment becomes a bit easier in my mind. If your grain bill is closer to 70% base malt, personally I would drop adjuncts as I consider 70% to be a floor for styles in which malt flavor is not the primary driver. If your grain bill is closer to 90% base malt, then definitely start with reductions there. I would only suggest reducing sugar contributions if you are using more than 1.5lb per 5 gallons or if you think the beer's body is too thin with what you have now; I use those 1lb Belgian sugar squeeze-its and saving a portion of the pouch just doesn't seem practical to me so I rarely adjust sugar.

All of your approaches will work to reduce ABV except for the attenuation. Regarding that, racking wort onto a fresh yeast cake has always attenuated by a few percentage points more than what manufacturer specifications identify in my experience. I think that if you want to your attenuation to be a known quantity to some degree then you will have to pitch a measured volume/mass of yeast.