Brewing cost

[Tony B]

I thought it might be less expensive to create my own recipe and buy malt extract and hops, etc, but looking at costs to buy ingredients , it looks like it’s pretty close or cheaper to buy a recipe kit and tweak it to my vision.
Are there better options?

 

[Rish]

I think you're right in most cases, depending on what you want to brew. Look for sales at the big on line sites like Northern Brewer and you can make some good, relatively cheap extract beers.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It depends on where one lives, how much space is available for storage, how much time one is willing to spent on inventory management (repackaging ingredients, etc) and availability of related equipment (vacuum sealer, grain mill, ...).

There are a number of online stores, located in the Great Lakes region of the USA, that can have a lower overall cost than the "big name" online stores. My guess is that there are similar stores on the Atlantic coast and the Pacific coast as well.

I haven't compared the price of a kit vs the total price of the individual ingredients. Occasionally, I will compare prices on different brands of DME at the "big name" stores vs the regional online stores that I use. For me, I find it's cheaper to stock a mini-LHBS in my basement. But I have the space and the equipment to do this.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Piecing together a ready made recipe like-for-like would more than likely be identical prices. I think the savings would come in buying in bulk. Especially when it comes to hops and yeast. If bulk yeast is not doable, reusing it would be a great savings advantage too. Around here, the savings in bulk malt is negligible. Bulk extract can get you some savings though.

 

[madscientist451]

Prices have definitely gone up in the last few years, if you think you can use it all, buy a 50lb sack of extract for the best price.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Piecing together a ready made recipe like-for-like would more than likely be identical prices.

I used the SNPA clone recipe from one of the "big name" stores as an ingredient list.

Using DME (at 3# bag pricing), I can piece together the ingredients for about 25% less than the equivalent DME-based kit.

Shipping costs were essentially the same.

Note that I'm not doing a 'same store' comparison. I have a couple of regional stores that have good prices for individual ingredients.

50lb sack of extract for the best price.

I priced checked this (price includes shipping for me).

• $165 for 17 3# bags (includes a volume price break)
• $160 for 1 50# bag

 

[mashdar]

If you're buying a 55lb bag online, definitely don't buy it from the "free" shipping guys, since it's not eligible but still marked up as-if. (Bobby's site, brewhardware.com has very competitive pricing, but shipping is probably $50.) The real savings on a full sack is if you can buy it in meatspace.

For extract, other threads have discussed ritebrew.com having uniquely low prices. I've never ordered from there myself, as I just buy 3lbs DME with other orders now and then.

 

[fluketamer]

like said above buy bulk grain and get a mill. AG definately cheaper than extract. i find the hops is usually the most costly part of a brew so buy them in bulk . you can get rediculously cheap hops on sale. the big name onlines have deals all the time like three recipes for $50 or buy two get one free. one problem there is that it can lock you into what you have to brew next to use up ingredients before they get old.
amazon sometimes has dme on sale pretty cheap and since dme shelflife is about the longest of all malt choices im ok with buying it at amazon.
ritebrew is cheapest prolly but when the others have deals its about the same

 

[mashdar]

AG definately cheaper than extract.

*when you value your time at $0.

Definitely don't go AG for savings unless you have heaps of free time. If time is at all a constraint, decide what's going to be the best fit for you in your adventures, and worry about $0.10 per beer later.

edit: not to mention ROI on a mill, mash tun, etc is not great. It could take you 15-20 brews to break even with rudimentary gear. (No, I don't count brew gear as capital assets.)
I like the control of AG, but IMO people should do it because it's fun/fulfilling, not for the economics.

 

[Steveruch]

like said above buy bulk grain and get a mill. AG definately cheaper than extract. i find the hops is usually the most costly part of a brew so buy them in bulk . you can get rediculously cheap hops on sale. the big name onlines have deals all the time like three recipes for $50 or buy two get one free. one problem there is that it can lock you into what you have to brew next to use up ingredients before they get old.
amazon sometimes has dme on sale pretty cheap and since dme shelflife is about the longest of all malt choices im ok with buying it at amazon.
ritebrew is cheapest prolly but when the others have deals its about the same

Ritebrew has 3 lb dme for $9.39, I've never seen any other place nearly that low even on special deals. I recently purchased 10 lbs of dme from Ritebrew. By adding some dry yeast to get my total over $50 I got a $5 discount on shipping: less than $3 to Indiana.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

three [kits] for $50 or buy two get one free

Be sure to store the ingredients properly when they arrive:

• yeast in the fridge,
• hops in the freezer,
• LME in the fridge,
• everything else cool & dry; (maybe vacuum seal the crushed grains)

Also, knowing how to measure the quality of ingredients on brew day will reduce the sorrow of a bad batch of beer a month later.

 

[PCABrewing]

*when you value your time at $0.

I like the control of AG, but IMO people should do it because it's fun/fulfilling, not for the economics.

That ^ and the flexibility.
If I consider my time at bill-rate it is cheaper to buy commercial made beer.

But I like to be able to tweak it the way I want it and I get satisfaction from doing the work.
It is definitely not an economic factor for me, it is a hobby.

 

[madscientist451]

Yeah both ingredient prices and shipping have escalated, it USED to be better to get a whole sack of DME,but these days I see it’s not a good option. I’d rather have the 3# bags and then you don’t have to worry about the rest of the 50 lb sack going bad.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@madscientist451 : I was surprised that the two alternative for ~ 50# DME was that close in price.

It's been a while since I did some comparative browsing on ingredients. Setting aside Yakima Valley Hops (for the moment), some stores only had hops in 1 oz packages. Others had 2 oz, 8 oz, and 16 oz sizes. DME / LME prices were "all over the map"; with the better prices generally from the "Great Lakes" region stores (plural). MoreBeer and Williams also have unique LME products. Williams has an additional brand of DME (beyond Briess & Muntons). It may be time to sign up for some additional newsletters.

 

[madscientist451]

I think both More beer and Williams are selling re-packaged Briess LME; so what is the lowest DME seller with shipping included?

 

[kartracer2]

I’d rather have the 3# bags and then you don’t have to worry about the rest of the 50 lb sack going bad.

Yeah, this but also it going "concrete" on you. (LOL)
Unless you are going to bang out a bunch of beers in a short time, I think the 3# bags is a better route. (that is if you don't have a vac machine)
As always, YMMV.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I think both More beer and Williams are selling re-packaged Briess LME;

For most/all of the Williams products and some/most of the MoreBeer products, I see sufficient information on the their respective web sites to suggest otherwise.

so what is the lowest DME seller with shipping included?

It depends on the shipping address and the size of the order. My orders are generally in the $50 to $75 range (as I brew mostly 2.5 gal batches).

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Yeah, this but also it going "concrete" on you. (LOL)
Unless you are going to bang out a bunch of beers in a short time, I think the 3# bags is a better route. (that is if you don't have a vac machine)
As always, YMMV.
Cheers,
Joel B.

Yeah, concrete. The LHBS has some 50lb sacks of various DME that have hardened, and they are offering for $50. I have not done extract brewing in awhile, but am tempted.

 

[bike2brew]

That ^ and the flexibility.
If I consider my time at bill-rate it is cheaper to buy commercial made beer.

But I like to be able to tweak it the way I want it and I get satisfaction from doing the work.
It is definitely not an economic factor for me, it is a hobby.

Likewise here. I brew for the enjoyment of production not economy. My beer is more fun to drink than most anything I am inclined to purchase despite having a fridge full of commercially produced brews.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Likewise here. I brew for the enjoyment of production not economy. My beer is more fun to drink than most anything I am inclined to purchase despite having a fridge full of commercially produced brews.

Yep! I recall a discussion on brand loyalty in my college psychology class. Settling in on a brand relieves the buyer from having to evaluate all the options and making a decision when shopping. We all like quick and easy. Marketing departments spend millions of dollars to win your loyalty. I recall the prof saying that if Budweiser didn’t spend money on advertising, and all the sponsorships, they could sell their product at 10¢/can and make the same profit. At the time, a six pack was going for around $3.25!

My beer is my brand. I can go right past the beer aisle at the store and not even wonder what’s down there. There may be a number of beers that I would enjoy, or consider better than mine, but I am loyal to “my brand”. If I allow myself to run out, I just mourn the loss until I can get another batch ready. That’s my motivation for brewing, which doesn’t take much.

 

[madscientist451]

For most/all of the Williams products and some/most of the MoreBeer products, I see sufficient information on the their respective web sites to suggest otherwise.


It depends on the shipping address and the size of the order. My orders are generally in the $50 to $75 range (as I brew mostly 2.5 gal batches).

Could this be the source for williams brewing malt extract?
https://maltproducts.com/maltproducts/malts/

 

[mac_1103]

I can go right past the beer aisle at the store and not even wonder what’s down there.

I always look. Every once in a while they have fresh Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA on sale.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think both More beer and Williams are selling re-packaged Briess LME; so what is the lowest DME seller with shipping included?

Depends on your location.

 

[Stikius]

As already mentioned above, depends on storage space, time, recipe and equipment. And location of course.

The good thing with ready made kits is that you usually get exact amounts. At least in Sweden it's hard (or even impossible) to order your own recipe and get the exact amounts you need, resulting in that you will end up with a bunch of leftovers that you have paid for. If you can use the leftovers for next brew that's most likely cheaper than the kit. But if you ordered some hop you just wanted to experiment with and not plan to use again it's money down the drain.

I enjoy the process of brewing, usually do it with friends, and time is not an issue (since it's time spent with friends). I also have the possibility of storing ingredients (not a full LHBS at home, but still) and usually buy 55lb sacks of base malts (around $0,6/lb) and fill up a bunch of smaller buckets with specialty malts from my LHBS for cheap. When I create recipes I try to see what hops I have at home, from earlier batches, and only buy more if needed. The only thing I need for a brew day is yeast (if I haven't stored some from before), which i get at the LHBS, and if I would need to top something up.

I always input all numbers into Brewfather to keep track of inventory and prices, and normally end up with $0,3-1/pint (depending on style). A standard/similar DME recipe kit here would start at around $2/pint (shipping not included since I have easy access to a shop).

However, if this was only a matter of price I would not brew at all. The equipment (AIO, fermentation chamber, grain crush, kegs, taps and so on) would make it impossible to break even in any near future. I suspect that's the same with any hobby though. If you calculate price of a boat and fishing rods it's probably a better idea to just go buy the fish in the supermarket instead. And I don't even want to think about the price of the land needed to grow a tomato plant...

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, concrete. The LHBS has some 50lb sacks of various DME that have hardened, and they are offering for $50. I have not done extract brewing in awhile, but am tempted.

That's a good price, I'd buy it and use for yeast starters, boost some all-grain recipes or make a few quick brews. Just break it up into smaller clumps.
I've had some unopened 3 pound bags with (Briess) DME go concrete during a few years of storage. Before use I broke it up into smaller pieces. No problem.

It still dissolves, just slowly, and quicker in hot or boiling water. It has always tasted fine.

We've split Briess DME sacks at our grain buys, and I have stored the powder in well sealing buckets with a screw lid and rubber real. That's still in powder form even after 5 years. Only gets opened to scoop some out when I need some.

 

[DuncB]

Another way to look at the return of investment is the cost of beer from supermarkets or pubs.
Here in NZ there's only a handful of beers available for less than 10 NZ dollars a pint ( cans or bottles).
Brewed a dark mild at the weekend with grains and it was 30 cents a pint.
Even a big barley wine or hoppy NEIPA is good value to brew.
There are other ways to save money such as drive slower, turn lights off etc.
However as many say it's an expensive way to make cheap beer.
I could work an extra day and buy all my beer but that would give me no pleasure.
Hope you can find the supplies and brew how you want.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I think both More beer and Williams are selling re-packaged Briess LME

For most/all of the Williams products and some/most of the MoreBeer products, I see sufficient information on the their respective web sites to suggest otherwise.

Could this be the source for williams brewing malt extract?
https://maltproducts.com/maltproducts/malts/

(I don't work in the food/beer malt extract industry) It's plausible that there are a number of companies offer customized contract manufacturing of malt extracts.

With regard to re-packaging: Williams has a number of liquid extract products (with grain bill percentages listed at their web site) that are different from existing Briess products. And MoreBeer has liquid extract product(s) that claim to use unique manufacturing process steps(s).

There's also mineral content (from the source water) to consider.

 

[madscientist451]

$10NZ= about $6 US, bar prices around my area are $7-8, although cheaper bars are around and you can get macro lager for $3. Store prices are $.75 to $3 per 12 oz, and those prices aren’t enough to pull people into home brewing for cost alone. I brew because I make beer not available in the store and take some pride in pouring my own pint at the end of the day, but at the same time try to keep costs as low as I can.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I was at a health food store once and they sold bulk LME, not sure the style or brand. It poured from a large container. Used for baking I assume.

You could bring your own container to fill or they had some. I'm sure that's exactly what these other places do. I know Northern Brewer did that as the LME came in a half gallon milk jug type container.

 

[DuncB]

$10NZ= about $6 US, bar prices around my area are $7-8, although cheaper bars are around and you can get macro lager for $3. Store prices are $.75 to $3 per 12 oz, and those prices aren’t enough to pull people into home brewing for cost alone. I brew because I make beer not available in the store and take some pride in pouring my own pint at the end of the day, but at the same time try to keep costs as low as I can.

Thanks, bar prices here would be equivalent but for less than a pint.
Nothing in stores as cheap as your macro prices.
Which is good because it makes my brewing justifiably more " valuable".
Agree with you drinking the beer is a side benefit.

 

[Tony B]

I had posted this to see if I was overlooking any deals to be found. After some research on my own, it doesn't look like I was wrong. I'd love to just buy a 50# sack of DME, but with shipping to southern CA, it's not going to work out. There is a local supplier that sells 50# bags, but for over $200. I could have one shipped for that money. I do appreciate all of the info. I will stick to the 3# bags for now.

 

[Steveruch]

Ritebrew has 3 lb dme for $9.39, I've never seen any other place nearly that low even on special deals. I recently purchased 10 lbs of dme from Ritebrew. By adding some dry yeast to get my total over $50 I got a $5 discount on shipping: less than $3 to Indiana.

$2.68

 

[Tony B]

$2.68

The nearest home brew mart has 3# bags for $13.99. There’s another place not too far away that sells them for like $9.99, but they’re only open 7-4, m-f and it would be tough for me to get there because of my own work schedule.

 

[MaxStout]

*when you value your time at $0.

Definitely don't go AG for savings unless you have heaps of free time. If time is at all a constraint, decide what's going to be the best fit for you in your adventures, and worry about $0.10 per beer later.

edit: not to mention ROI on a mill, mash tun, etc is not great. It could take you 15-20 brews to break even with rudimentary gear. (No, I don't count brew gear as capital assets.)
I like the control of AG, but IMO people should do it because it's fun/fulfilling, not for the economics.

You can have fun/fulfilling AND save money with AG. BIAB only requires a minimal extra investment, maybe $30-40 for a bag and good thermometer. The brew day is extended about 60 minutes, due to the mash.

True, grain mills may have a poor ROI, but you can skip the mill, buy crushed grains by 10lb bags from Morebeer, and get free shipping >$59. Buying hops in bulk, reusing yeast can add further savings.

 

[Tony B]

You can have fun/fulfilling AND save money with AG. BIAB only requires a minimal extra investment, maybe $30-40 for a bag and good thermometer. The brew day is extended about 60 minutes, due to the mash.

True, grain mills may have a poor ROI, but you can skip the mill, buy crushed grains by 10lb bags from Morebeer, and get free shipping >$59. Buying hops in bulk, reusing yeast can add further savings.

I’m just getting started. Going to bottle my first batch this weekend. So, I am planning to stick with extract brewing to get the basics down. Also, with this first batch, it took like 2 hours to get 3 gallons of water boiling on the stovetop and my kettle is only 5 gallon, so not sure if that would work for AG. I may start another batch this weekend also, but when I do, I’m planning to split the water up between the kettle and a soup pot to get it up to temp and then pour the soup pot into the kettle. Hopefully that speeds it up a bit.

 

[mac_1103]

it took like 2 hours to get 3 gallons of water boiling on the stovetop

That must be frustrating. Maybe your first upgrade should be a better way of heating.

 

[Tony B]

That must be frustrating. Maybe your first upgrade should be a better way of heating.

Unfortunately, I live in a condo and space is limited. No garage or outdoor space. Not sure where I would put a burner and I don’t think an electric hot plate would be any better than the stovetop.

 

[mac_1103]

Not sure where I would put a burner and I don’t think an electric hot plate would be any better than the stovetop.

Depending on how powerful your stove is, an induction cooktop might be better. Requires an induction capable kettle of course. You could also try supplementing your stovetop with an immersion heater.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Unfortunately, I live in a condo and space is limited.

I find that an 1800W 120V induction cooktop work well with 2.5 & 3 gal batches (either extract or BIAB).