Boiling hot wort in glass carboy...

[The Pol]

I have a better idea.

Use an HDPE fermentor that handles boiling temps, has a handle, wont shatter (basically indestructible) and that can handle the vacuum caused by cooling wort....

They are $15

Drain your boiling wort (drain, do not pour boiling wort PLEASE!) into the fermentor.

The hot wort will sanitize the fermentor with heat.

Let cool.

That is all that I can say.

Why the heck you would ever want to do the same thing with GLASS, is beyond me.

 

[The Pol]

All you're doing is taking No-Chill brewing and making it more dangerous.

I would say this is a correct statement.

I like to see what is going on in my fermentor too... but not THIS much. Darwin takes care of the rest.

 

[C2H5OH]

Have you actually tried this yet???

My guess is that when the cooling wort contracts it will either suck in the bung you stuck into the carboy at step 7 or shatter the carboy (if the bung doesn't give first).

From what I've read about No-chill brewing....the cooling wort will really pull in the sides of those "cubes" they use. I can't imagine the walls of a glass carboy will tolerate those kinds of pressure.

I thought over your statements last night, which lead me to devised some modifications of the technique to satisfy the vacuum concerns. Thank you for helping me make the process safer. Changes can be noted in step #7

 

[OMJ]

Why would you even attempt this?
In my opinion, the minimal of risk of infection isn't worth the extra effort...

+1

I will take my chances with having to dump a batch of beer instead of taking my chances with flying glass and 212 degree wort.

 

[IrregularPulse]

The hot wort will sanitize the fermentor with heat.

Interested here. You don't use starsan or anything in the fermeneter? Just clean it from debris and let the bot wort sanitize? Makes sense with boiling temps.

 

[C2H5OH]

Interested here. You don't use starsan or anything in the fermeneter? Just clean it from debris and let the bot wort sanitize? Makes sense with boiling temps.

Correct. The oven temperatures and boiling wart will surpass what Starsan accompishes. However, since I have made up a small batch to sanitize my hands and other materials for the brewing process, I go ahead and swish a little Starsan around inside the carboy and rinse. (Not that you have to rinse, it is just what I do.)

Thanks for your interest on the topic.

 

[conpewter]

I have a better idea.

Use an HDPE fermentor that handles boiling temps, has a handle, wont shatter (basically indestructible) and that can handle the vacuum caused by cooling wort....

They are $15

Drain your boiling wort (drain, do not pour boiling wort PLEASE!) into the fermentor.

The hot wort will sanitize the fermentor with heat.

Let cool.

That is all that I can say.

Why the heck you would ever want to do the same thing with GLASS, is beyond me.

Based on some of the info in this thread would it be best to star-san the HDPE container before putting the boiling wort in there? It won't stay abobe 200 degrees for very long, won't sterilize that's for sure, but will it disinfect or sanitize?

 

[C2H5OH]

Based on some of the info in this thread would it be best to star-san the HDPE container before putting the boiling wort in there? It won't stay abobe 200 degrees for very long, won't sterilize that's for sure, but will it disinfect or sanitize?

Correct. Mostly because your primary wasn't in the oven and never had a chance to sterilize/disinfect. Plus, because of what you said about the wort temps, you still should sanitize. (It never hurts to sanitize with Star-san.)

 

[RDWHAHB]

I see no reason not to put HDPE in the oven. Remember, the stuff was made by heating it to a liquid. So its safe.

/Sarcasm

 

[springer]

Still at 250° it takes 12 hours to sanitize glass in the oven . So you are doing nothing but heating the glass up.

Table 3 - Dry Heat Sterilization

Temperature


Duration

338°F (170°C) 60 minutes

320°F (160°C) 120 minutes

302°F (150°C) 150 minutes

284°F (140°C) 180 minutes

250°F (121°C) 12 hours (Overnight


Some people do sanitize there bottles(12 oz) in the oven but they let them cool in the oven and put in cool beer and cap

 

[IrregularPulse]

Correct. The oven temperatures and boiling wart will surpass what Starsan accompishes. However, since I have made up a small batch to sanitize my hands and other materials for the brewing process, I go ahead and swish a little Starsan around inside the carboy and rinse. (Not that you have to rinse, it is just what I do.)

Thanks for your interest on the topic.

Sorry for the confusion. I was asking Pol about his method. I Agree with everyone saying that heating the glass is an unnecessary risk. sorry.

 

[jds]

Based on some of the info in this thread would it be best to star-san the HDPE container before putting the boiling wort in there? It won't stay abobe 200 degrees for very long, won't sterilize that's for sure, but will it disinfect or sanitize?

I've been no-chilling my last few beers too, and I do sanitize the winpak before I fill it -- mostly as a belt-and-suspenders action. Also, since I brew at altitude, my boiling temperature is only around 195F.

However, the winpak does remain hot for several hours after filling. 6 gallons of boiling 1.060 liquid is a lot of thermal mass.

 

[C2H5OH]

I see no reason not to put HDPE in the oven. Remember, the stuff was made by heating it to a liquid. So its safe.

/Sarcasm

LOL. In the case that someone may have gotten the impression that I suggested putting plastics in the oven...

...Don't put plastics in your oven!


(Heck, I don't even microwave cookware that has plastic.)

 

[C2H5OH]

Still at 250° it takes 12 hours to sanitize glass in the oven.

Wrong.

...You say sanitize, but what you're describing is sterilization.

There seems to be some confusion between the 2 terms. So, in an effort to
clear it up, here are a couple of definitions to keep in mind:

Sanitize - to render sanitary, or free from elements, such as filth or some
pathogens, that endanger health. This does not mean ALL possible
microorganisms, etc, but MOST. Sanitizing does not remove ALL bacteria,
microorganisms, etc.

Sterilize - to render sterile, or to make free from ALL live bacteria or
other microorganisms. Kind of a "total kill" of everything.

Something that is sterilized can also be considered sanitary, but
something that is sanitized is not sterile.

In brewing, sanitary is the standard. In medicine, sterile.

 

[The Pol]

Interested here. You don't use starsan or anything in the fermeneter? Just clean it from debris and let the bot wort sanitize? Makes sense with boiling temps.

Stop changing your damn avatar...

I always star san before I fill the Winpak...
Just saying, if you are totally freaked about infections, no chill is nice since you not only sanitize (I do) but you also get the heat in there for a period of time as well.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

If you buy a carboy and it has a small air bubble or stress crack, it's only a matter of time before it fails. By expanding and contacting glass like this--especially when it's not designed for repeated cool/heat cycles--it's only a matter of time before failure occurs. It's not a matter of 'if' but 'when' and when it does, look out!

I just hope noobs read the thread all the way through. It would seem to me that if you are really that concerend with sterility/plastics, you could just ferment in the kettle when it cools. Or buy a SS pot with tight fitting lid, etc

Hell, I'd rather toss 1 batch in 50, than have 1 in 50 send me to the ER.

Too many points of failure, too much risk---too little reward.

Thanks for the idea, but you really should expand on the list of 'cons' this list is considerably larger than originally presented. IMO, this is misleading and really deserves an edit.

 

[nebben]

Get a stainless conical with silicone seals or high temp tolerant rubber. Get a lid that you can mount a temporary heatstick to, and lower it into the wort. Make sure the lid is loosely fitting, in case a boilover occurs, and flip power switch to on position. When boil is complete per your recipe, quickly remove the lid+heatstick, put lid back on minus heatstick, seal, and insert a drilled bung with airlock into the hole that the heatstick went through. When the wort is cooled, finish putting airlock together and add water/vodka mix.

Sanitized fermenter FTW, and you can dump the trub too at your leisure.

 

[C2H5OH]

Get a stainless conical with silicone seals or high temp tolerant rubber. Get a lid that you can mount a temporary heatstick to, and lower it into the wort. Make sure the lid is loosely fitting, in case a boilover occurs, and flip power switch to on position. When boil is complete per your recipe, quickly remove the lid+heatstick, put lid back on minus heatstick, seal, and insert a drilled bung with airlock into the hole that the heatstick went through. When the wort is cooled, finish putting airlock together and add water/vodka mix.

Sanitized fermenter FTW, and you can dump the trub too at your leisure.

I agree. In the right size, that would be my dream setup. This morning I was looking for just such an animal, but I have yet found one small enough for my needs.

(I brew for quality, not quantity.)

...I will keep looking.

Thank you, nebben, for taking the time and thought to piece together a viable alternative for me.

Cheers,
My first brew tonight, I will have in your honor.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Can we get this thread locked or deleted? Seriously stupid.

 

[the_bird]

Wrong.

...You say sanitize, but what you're describing is sterilization.

There seems to be some confusion between the 2 terms. So, in an effort to
clear it up, here are a couple of definitions to keep in mind:

Sanitize - to render sanitary, or free from elements, such as filth or some
pathogens, that endanger health. This does not mean ALL possible
microorganisms, etc, but MOST. Sanitizing does not remove ALL bacteria,
microorganisms, etc.

Sterilize - to render sterile, or to make free from ALL live bacteria or
other microorganisms. Kind of a "total kill" of everything.

Something that is sterilized can also be considered sanitary, but
something that is sanitized is not sterile.

In brewing, sanitary is the standard. In medicine, sterile.

If you're not sterilizing, what the ****'s the point?

+1 on this being a really, really, REALLY dumb idea. Too much work for negligible benefit even if you had a nice Pyrex carboy, and way too much risk given the known quality defects in the cheap Mexican/Italian carboys we all own.

I've seen probably three times as many posts about broken carboys (under FAR less stressful scenarios that you're laying out) than you have at HBT in total. I'm half-convinced that you're just trolling.

 

[AiredAle]

Everyone has a different level of comfort for risk-taking, as we can see from this thread. I’m a safety guy for a chemical-related business, and we work on a daily basis with some very hazardous chemicals in our manufacturing processes. We have to use these chemicals to make the products our business depends on. Our approach is to manage the risk of using inherently hazardous materials. We evaluate risk by looking at two factors: severity of the hazard, and the probability of occurrence. In other words, risk equals severity times probability.

We manage risk by reducing the probability of an incident taking place, or by reducing the severity if it does take place.

C2H5OH, what you have done is the opposite of what we do; you have increased both the severity and the probability of an accident by introducing heat to your process. Hot wort will burn you, cold wort won’t. Hot glass will burn you, cool glass won’t. These are increases to the severity of an accident. Handling a hot glass carboy full of wort increases the probability of an accident because it is harder to handle than a cool carboy. Either of these factors increases the risk of an accident, regardless of how safe you think your process is.

You can argue you are safe because nothing bad has happened so far, but this is a false argument, because probability and severity always win in the end. It is like arguing that smoking is not dangerous because you have smoked all your life and you haven’t gotten cancer or emphysema yet.

You are welcome to practice this inherently hazardous process, that is your privilege, but you should be careful not to encourage others to do so, or to defend its safety.

 

[dwarven_stout]

I'm half-convinced that you're just trolling.

New member, with a majority of posts in this thread? You could be right.

I used to troll a lot when I was younger and dumber, and this thread pretty much follows my previous MO.


To keep it "on topic": New brewers, please do not do this. There is literally no upside to this technique compared to no-chill brewing, unless you like being on a first-name basis with a trauma surgeon.

 

[springer]

you are right that it takes 12 hours at 250 to sterilize the glass. But what is the damn point of taking a sanitized carboy and putting it in a 220° oven?

(2) Place sanitized carboy in cold oven. (move metal racks to accommodate glass carboy)

When I brew everything that contacts the beer after boil is sanitized so what is the actual benefit? None..


And you pour the beer into the carboy at 212° with a funnel. At least use a spigot and some silicone tubing less chance of getting burned.

 

[bob1852]

Everyone has a different level of comfort for risk-taking, as we can see from this thread. I’m a safety guy for a chemical-related business, and we work on a daily basis with some very hazardous chemicals in our manufacturing processes. We have to use these chemicals to make the products our business depends on. Our approach is to manage the risk of using inherently hazardous materials. We evaluate risk by looking at two factors: severity of the hazard, and the probability of occurrence. In other words, risk equals severity times probability.

We manage risk by reducing the probability of an incident taking place, or by reducing the severity if it does take place.

C2H5OH, what you have done is the opposite of what we do; you have increased both the severity and the probability of an accident by introducing heat to your process. Hot wort will burn you, cold wort won’t. Hot glass will burn you, cool glass won’t. These are increases to the severity of an accident. Handling a hot glass carboy full of wort increases the probability of an accident because it is harder to handle than a cool carboy. Either of these factors increases the risk of an accident, regardless of how safe you think your process is.

You can argue you are safe because nothing bad has happened so far, but this is a false argument, because probability and severity always win in the end. It is like arguing that smoking is not dangerous because you have smoked all your life and you haven’t gotten cancer or emphysema yet.

You are welcome to practice this inherently hazardous process, that is your privilege, but you should be careful not to encourage others to do so, or to defend its safety.

couldn't have said it beter. good post.

 

[Yooper]

LOL. In the case that someone may have gotten the impression that I suggested putting plastics in the oven...

...Don't put plastics in your oven!


(Heck, I don't even microwave cookware that has plastic.)

Good thing you're being so safety conscious- I've heard that eating foods microwaved in plastic can be dangerous.

I've had about enough of this. We hear of really dumb ideas all of the time, with the tag line "it worked for me". Sure, take some risks if you want. But don't come here and purport its safety.

People do stupid things all of the time. Let's not encourage it.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

WARNING: This technique is for experienced brewers possessing intuition and common sense abilities. Ideally you should use a Pyrex carboy or have your glass carboy annealed.

^^^
I found two words in the OP that seemed out of place.

 

[annasdadhockey]

I'm half-convinced that you're just trolling.

Oh Come on now!!! I got Mod-smacked and my post deleted for saying the very same thing.

 

[hamiltont]

My vote would be to remove the entire thread before someone actually tries it & gets hurt... This is nuts!!!

 

[Yooper]

All done!
Extra text for length