I expect it can cause a nozzle sized for higher pressure to become less than effective, hence the recommendation to use the tighter nozzles if reduced flow is desired...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed
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Gameface
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I'm guessing he's asking about boiling off the alcohol before the water, similar to how a still does it, except rather than condense the alcohol, it's simply discarded, thus lowering the ABV of the beer. Post fermentation, of course.
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He means that there's not a good way to predict how much the pressure of the water coming out of the spray nozzle will be reduced when you restrict the flow. So you might not get enough atomized water to make the thing work, and even if you get it to work once, it might not be dialed in the next time.
I think it would work only if water is running inside of the copper coil and the coil is quite long. That cooling water could be part of closed loop system consisting a pump and radiator with fan to loose the heat to surrounding air. A lot more complicated system compared to this topic's condenser.
OP
OP
This ^
sixhotdogneck
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Would this work on -or- does anyone use this on a stovetop setup?
There's no reason why it wouldn't work on a stovetop. I use an electric element inside the kettle, no difference if the heat is supplied inside the kettle or at the bottom.
sixhotdogneck
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Thanks. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what's being said at this link, "your electric kettle must be equipped with a power controller" but on a stove you can also adjust the heat:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/steamslayer.htm
Under Instructions in #6:
ancientmariner52
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What this means is, while boiling with a lid on, your thermal efficiency is going to be approximately doubled. You'll be able to cut your heat input in half, whatever the source of heat. The heat is carried off mostly by the rising steam, so less heat loss equals less water loss as well. The principle is the same, however the heat is produced. A stove top should work just fine.
That's exactly right--you can adjust the power going to the burner, just as I'm adjusting the power going to my element.
Gameface
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I think they specify that you're gonna need to be able to control your power level because with the lid open it will just boil harder. With the lid on it will boil over unless you can reduce the power.
Gameface
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I used the steam condenser for a second time today. Love it!
But I did want to mention something. Someone a few dozen pages ago said something about the smell being even stronger and less pleasant after going to the steam condenser. Didn't really seem right.
What I did notice today, especially after running a quick errand and coming back home is that the wort smell in my house was stronger than it used to be before the steam condenser. Add to that, I could smell the canned corn smell in my house.
So before the steam condenser I used to open my garage and the side door to my garage and I'd get a good cross breeze that kept the steam down without a vent hood.
Now I keep my garage completely closed, except that I go in and out a lot and I usually let the door going from the garage to my house stay open a crack (it's a metal door that has spring hinges that make it close but if I close it softly it doesn't latch and stays open a crack).
So I don't think I'm producing more smell, I'm just not giving any of the malt smell anywhere to go besides inside my house. And the condensed liquid absolutely does have that canned corn smell to it, which isn't as nice as a clean wort smell, for sure. So I think something like that must have been going on with the other guy.
But I did want to mention something. Someone a few dozen pages ago said something about the smell being even stronger and less pleasant after going to the steam condenser. Didn't really seem right.
What I did notice today, especially after running a quick errand and coming back home is that the wort smell in my house was stronger than it used to be before the steam condenser. Add to that, I could smell the canned corn smell in my house.
So before the steam condenser I used to open my garage and the side door to my garage and I'd get a good cross breeze that kept the steam down without a vent hood.
Now I keep my garage completely closed, except that I go in and out a lot and I usually let the door going from the garage to my house stay open a crack (it's a metal door that has spring hinges that make it close but if I close it softly it doesn't latch and stays open a crack).
So I don't think I'm producing more smell, I'm just not giving any of the malt smell anywhere to go besides inside my house. And the condensed liquid absolutely does have that canned corn smell to it, which isn't as nice as a clean wort smell, for sure. So I think something like that must have been going on with the other guy.
I've noticed the same issue with smell. It's more pungent, less...hoppy somehow. Don't know why, that water is going down the drain. My wife likes it even less than before.
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Love the idea. I'm getting something like this eventually.
Apartment brewer. -30 or -40 winters. Balcony isn't fun at that point in time, not is having the door cracked to get power there. I thought about the idea a while ago. Never came to fruition with a product even worth prototyping. Ranging from crazy coils going all over the pace (too small diameter), car intercooler bolted somewhere (somewhere...) but nothing that would be of any practical use.
I noticed in a few of the photos the top mounted TC ones with a 90 degree elbow seem to be leaning an awful lot. Where's it torquing? Connection at the lid, whole lid tilting slightly to one side from non-centred placement, optical illusion?
Apartment brewer. -30 or -40 winters. Balcony isn't fun at that point in time, not is having the door cracked to get power there. I thought about the idea a while ago. Never came to fruition with a product even worth prototyping. Ranging from crazy coils going all over the pace (too small diameter), car intercooler bolted somewhere (somewhere...) but nothing that would be of any practical use.
I noticed in a few of the photos the top mounted TC ones with a 90 degree elbow seem to be leaning an awful lot. Where's it torquing? Connection at the lid, whole lid tilting slightly to one side from non-centred placement, optical illusion?
Gameface
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Even though I really like not having to open my garage, I might do it just to get a little airflow to carry the smell away.
Oh, I probably should have also mentioned that I was taking the buckets with the condensed liquid inside to dump in my kitchen sink. LOL, that probably also had something to do with it.
I most cases the lid is curved, and that is where the tilt is originating. There is however significant torque due to the cantilever nature of the beast.
Brew on :mug;
OP
OP
Well, I think you will find it harder to boil on a stovetop than before. The heat input becomes much more sensitive. Think of it this way... if you don't have super fine boil control, say 5% steps of power, and boiled with 65% power, then 1 step drop is only a 8% change. However, if you now need to boil at 35%, that same 5% step is a 14% change.
Some stoves have a long ON/OFF cycle and adjust that, and some control power via triac for more linear power output. So these things need to be considered. Not saying it can't be done, but I would be careful with a blanket comparison that its identical to a brew "specific" controller and element.
ancientmariner52
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Mine has the tilted appearance, account of the domed lid shape. I mounted it as near center as possible, to counteract any tendency to lift the lid. It turned out to be remarkably stable, in fact.
I've considered using a hydraulic press and some sort of punch and die to create a level mounting surface. I'm sure it would work, but I'm much too lazy to make it likely to happen.
When I install TC ports into lids using the pull through ferrule method, I have the ability to torque the ferrule to level before soldering. Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it with a weldless TC but it doesn't really affect the performance.
Joseph G
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So the HVAC guy just left after quoting me for the ducting for my plans for a stainless exhaust hood which is already $$$ by itself and I was less than impressed with the estimate. I am now leaning toward a steam condenser myself. I have sorted through many of the pages of this thread and am looking where to source the spray nozzle assembly from. I would intend to use all 2" TC connections minus the reducer from the kettle. I have sketched up a design using a modified Spike Brewing kettle lid incorporating a center exhaust and two handles. For the domed reducer I sketched, I intend to use a concentric reducer for the nozzle benefits. Let me know if any of you that use condensers see any flaws with the design. Also, is the smell so bad that brewing inside would be out of the question?
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I'll bet you can buy a spray nozzle from Bobby at Brewhardware.com. He doesn't list them as a part, but you can get a 6gph or a 9gph spray nozzle as part of the Steam Slayer kit.
Just out of curiousity, why not just get his Steam Slayer? It's 1.5" tubing, not 2"; any reason why you're set on 2" tubing?
Just out of curiousity, why not just get his Steam Slayer? It's 1.5" tubing, not 2"; any reason why you're set on 2" tubing?
BeardedBrews
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There exists a domed lid design that is also useful for other applications. You might consider a dual purpose approach when you design the steam lid.
Joseph G
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I will have to send him a message. My thought was 2" would just provide more steam flow, especially with the extra elbow, I suppose that 1.5" would work as well and I haven't ruled out using the steam slayer. I had a hard time finding a 4" to 1.5" reducer that I liked but there were many options at 4" to 2". I am really just in the planning phase right now as far as a condenser goes because of the exhaust hood cost. I am also waiting to hear back on some custom work about my ideas on the lid design. A domed lid straight to a 1.5" or 2" TC would be ideal IMO.
I see; I missed the 4" opening above.
I'm using the steam slayer on a 10-gallon kettle, and the 1.5" is plenty for that, even with having two 90-degree elbows. Once they heat up with steam, the steam just goes through to the condenser.
But I can see the issue with getting a reducer from 4" to 1.5".
Joseph G
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Can you send me a picture of that when you get a chance? Do you have it coming out of the lid? Thanks for the insights.
Actually, it's earlier in this thread, on page 23. Here it is, anyway. I don't have it coming out of the lid, but if I did, I'd be able to move the elbows in such as way as to get the steam slayer to work.
ancientmariner52
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I wonder. If we have a condenser to control the escaping steam, wouldn't a standard, home-kitchen-sized, that is to say, affordable, range exhaust hood be able to control the odors? I realize make-up air has to enter the space from somewhere, but the volume would be very much less.
When I started using mine, the catch bucket was still putting off a fair amount of steam from the hot water and the cream corn smell isn't great. My solution was to drill a hole in a bucket lid that my drain hose fit snugly in and set it on the bucket. I don't think you'd want to put it on tight, or you might have issues, but it does a pretty good job of knocking down the steam and odors.
Interesting question, to which I'm going to (speculatively) answer "no."
Here's why I think that: a standard exhaust hood setup will take the rising steam, most of which ends up inside the hood, and exhaust it to the outside. Given the airflow, other volatile boil constituents will also rise up and be exhausted.
Now, take one of our steam condenser setups. Even if you have an exhaust hood over it, from where is it drawing the air? From everywhere. There's nothing carrying steam and other boil constituents up directly into the fan and thus to the outside.
That air will come from everywhere, not just from below. Inside that range hood the fan creates a negative pressure; it will be fed with air from all sides and below the hood, not just from below.
Thus, while it will vent something, it's not going to vent a lot, at least not compared to an exhaust vent into which steam is rising.
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That said, you have me thinking about this. The smell in the garage is NG, my wife thinks it's bad, and so do I. I don't really know why it's so apparent, possibly the closed environment. Even opening both garage doors after brewing doesn't fully eliminate the smell.
What's the source of the smell? Those of you who would say "hop odor" haven't smelled this. The odor of hops during the boil is, IMO, an acquired taste, but once acquired, it's a nice part of the brewing process.
I'm talking about a different odor. It's sharper, somehow. I suppose I could attribute this to maybe, possibly, the use of a 5500-watt element but if that were the case, I think I'd have heard about this before.
I have mine draining into a stand pipe under the sink (p-trap between it and the drain). It's occurred to me to see if I'm getting a lot of that odor out of that area; if so, maybe that could be vented effectively, not sure.
The education of Mongoose proceeds.
Gameface
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I am using the 1.5" steam slayer on a 30gal kettle making 15gal batches and it is keeping up just fine. In fact, the first time I used it I was slow to lower my power as much as needed and I had a boil-over, only there was no boil-over because the steam slayer sucked all the foam in and it went into the bucket.
vwluv10338
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The worry I'd have is that the hops are sticking to the side instead of in the wort. The hops aren't going anyone any good if they're not in the boiling wort.
My hops also collect on the sides at the top of the boiling wort. I use a squirt bottle with water in it to wash them down into the wort, or use a spoon to spoon wort up on the hops to wash them down again.
I think you can dial that down a bit more yet; I'm using a 5500-watt element in my 10-gallon BK, and I will have that about 28 percent or so; that's partly to reduce the vigor of the boil, partly to ensure the steam slayer can keep up, which it can, even if it's boiling at a high level.
The only downside, such as it is, is that the boiloff is less, so you have to account for that in your recipe and process. When I started this I kept having boiloffs of about 1/2 gallon, less than the normal 1 gallon, and thus a somewhat lower FG than I'd expect. I've been diddling w/ the recipes to deal with this.
ancientmariner52
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I think you'll have to tell us how it worked. Just offhand, I'd guess that most of the hop goodness is still in the hops. Have you tasted the wort? Perhaps you could scrape the hops down and stir them about to recover some of the value?
OP
OP
That boil is too aggressive - hence the hops being deposited on the side.
All brewers should be targeting commercial level boil-off rates of 4-6%. A good simmer should be the goal, not whitewater rapids.
All brewers should be targeting commercial level boil-off rates of 4-6%. A good simmer should be the goal, not whitewater rapids.
vwluv10338
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I figured it might be an issue. I will have to figure something out because I can't really dial the boil down on the Mash and Boil like you guys can with your PID controllers. Maybe I can set the temp a bit lower, more like on the verge of boiling. I did not taste the wort but it smells like hops in the blow off tube.
Do you guys think the condenser stack this guy is holding would be overkill for a 20 gal BK?
All joking aside, it is amazing to see that we can build/buy one for the homebrew scale that doesn't require a custom application specific piece to be made.
All joking aside, it is amazing to see that we can build/buy one for the homebrew scale that doesn't require a custom application specific piece to be made.
Can the Mash & Boil run just the 600 watt element?
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