Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[Dory Rules]

I have skimmed through this thread, so my apologies if this has been answered. What are the advantages of this system over a CFC or condenser like a still uses?

 

[Gameface]

I have skimmed through this thread, so my apologies if this has been answered. What are the advantages of this system over a CFC or condenser like a still uses?

Are there people using a CFC as a steam condenser?

 

[cbier60]

What are the advantages of this system over a CFC or condenser like a still uses?

Are there people using a CFC as a steam condenser?

WTF is a CFC in this respect?

 

[ancientmariner52]

I have skimmed through this thread, so my apologies if this has been answered. What are the advantages of this system over a CFC or condenser like a still uses?

This system is intended to 'collect' steam, for the purpose of brewing indoors (electric only) without having to install an expensive ventilation system. It does not duplicate a distillation condenser, and is not in any way related to a Counter Flow Chiller (CFC). Hope this clears up any confusion.

This system also cuts power consumption and boil off approximately in half, but that's just lagniap, as they say in New Orleans. Something extra, for free.

 

[BrunDog]

I suppose the question is why not use a cold coil to do the condensing. I think this could be possible, but the amount of heat that needs to be pulled out is fairly high so it would need to be a good sized coil. Plus, assuming this would need a closed loop of cooling fluid, a chiller of adequate capacity would be needed. Alternatively I suppose a radiator (air:water:air) could be used but it would need a pump and be appropriately sized. For someone dead set against using water, this could be a solution but would certainly be more complex and costly.

 

[BrunDog]

...but that's just lagniap, as they say in New Orleans. Something extra, for free.

Great to know!

 

[PeteSeattle]

Spike just contacted me about adding the port. $60 for shipping both ways and $50 for the addition. Much more reasonable than purchasing and installing a condensate hood. Estimated turn around will be 1.5-2 weeks. Good thing I still have the box.

Luckily I didn’t sell me ebiab set up yet which will be my substitute kettle until I get it back.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Spike just contacted me about adding the port. $60 for shipping both ways and $50 for the addition. Much more reasonable than purchasing and installing a condensate hood. Estimated turn around will be 1.5-2 weeks. Good thing I still have the box.

Luckily I didn’t sell me ebiab set up yet which will be my substitute kettle until I get it back.

you can use brewhardware's weldless, he even sells the drill bit, around $30 for both

 

[PeteSeattle]

you can use brewhardware's weldless, he even sells the drill bit, around $30 for both

That’s what I was looking to do until I saw what Spike did for @mongoose33 and I really dig at how clean and flawless the weld was in the photo.

But knowing me I’d probably end up spending more if I did it myself. I don’t have a good track record for diy. Lol.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Here's my rooftop installation on a 15 gal. kettle. The angle is account of the dome shape of the lid. I made the hole as close to the center as possible. To my immense surprise, the condenser assembly does not overbalance the lid, even when I shake the fool out of the whole kettle.

As soon as my daughter finishes up a quilted wrapper and lid cover, I'll be ready for some plain water calibration runs.

Thanks again to Brundog, Bobby M, and everyone else who has contributed here!

 

[schematix]

I put mine in a 13/16” hole I already had. Not expecting it to work but cool if it does and a plan b if it doesn’t.

 

[Elky]

View attachment 590013

I put mine in a 13/16” hole I already had. Not expecting it to work but cool if it does and a plan b if it doesn’t.

The Brew-Boss unit comes like this and apparently it works for them. I bought one a while back, but I just removed it and went with a trip clamp, but I think there's Hope for it.

 

[schematix]

Plan A is dead before i even started. Since I pre-heat my water the night before to near boiling it's already filling the bucket. Gonna have to put a valve on i guess.

 

[TexasWine]

Plan A is dead before i even started. Since I pre-heat my water the night before to near boiling it's already filling the bucket. Gonna have to put a valve on i guess.

Are you saying that the small amount of steam that's generated sitting at near boiling temps is filling the bucket overnight? If so, no need for a valve. Just submerge the end of the steam slayer hose into a few inches of water. It'll create enough back pressure that it keeps anything from escaping.

 

[schematix]

Are you saying that the small amount of steam that's generated sitting at near boiling temps is filling the bucket overnight? If so, no need for a valve. Just submerge the end of the steam slayer hose into a few inches of water. It'll create enough back pressure that it keeps anything from escaping.

Yah that's what was happening. The steam is escaping and condensing in the slayer, then dripping down. I'm not sure submerging would help a lot but i suppose i can try something like that next time. For now i just took the slayer off and capped it. I'll put it back on before i transfer to the BK.

I guess its a good sign though that steam was making its way in through that small hole.

 

[mongoose33]

Yah that's what was happening. The steam is escaping and condensing in the slayer, then dripping down. I'm not sure submerging would help a lot but i suppose i can try something like that next time. For now i just took the slayer off and capped it. I'll put it back on before i transfer to the BK.

I guess its a good sign though that steam was making its way in through that small hole.

Seems to me that if you just terminated the hose in a bucket of water the steam would escape around the rim, defeating the purpose.

Is there any way you can put a timer on it?

One reason--there are several--I switched to electric brewing was so I didn't have to babysit the propane burner. Now, when I get up, before I make coffee, I flip on the burner in the already-filled kettle. Then while I'm doing other things, that water is heating up.

Don't know the details of your system--looks like a 20-gallon kettle above, mine's a 10--but I'm hitting boiling in about a half hour. Double that for a double batch....maybe the answer is just flipping it on early.

Another idea--I've done this--is pre-boil or pre-heat the night before and cover it and/or just let it sit. It'll retain a lot of heat that way so you don't start from zero.

Some thoughts on things you might try, might work or not for you, or might stimulate some other idea that's better.

 

[schematix]

Seems to me that if you just terminated the hose in a bucket of water the steam would escape around the rim, defeating the purpose.

Is there any way you can put a timer on it?

One reason--there are several--I switched to electric brewing was so I didn't have to babysit the propane burner. Now, when I get up, before I make coffee, I flip on the burner in the already-filled kettle. Then while I'm doing other things, that water is heating up.

Don't know the details of your system--looks like a 20-gallon kettle above, mine's a 10--but I'm hitting boiling in about a half hour. Double that for a double batch....maybe the answer is just flipping it on early.

Another idea--I've done this--is pre-boil or pre-heat the night before and cover it and/or just let it sit. It'll retain a lot of heat that way so you don't start from zero.

Some thoughts on things you might try, might work or not for you, or might stimulate some other idea that's better.

I *could* put a timer on it, but i don't have a 230V timer for it currently.

The lid doesn't leak steam at all unless it's on a hard boil.

I have recently switched to weekday evening brewing. That means i need to be done in as little time as possible since i don't start until ~4:30. When i get home its right into finishing the pre-boil while i mill, then purge the MLT while i wait for the chiling, then mash in.

I currently have 17.5G of water sitting just off the boil with my 5500W elemenet at 10% power (huge waste of energy holding this for 18 hours!). 10% is almost enough to hold it, but it does cool off a few degrees. It takes about 90 minutes to heat the water to a boil, so it's definitely something i want to do ahead of time, and i currently only have 1 way to do that, which is the night before.

 

[BrunDog]

The small amount of steam pre-boil will create some pressure and head out that hole. The metal body of the condenser will pull some of that heat out and therefore condense some of the liquid.

Boiling is another animal altogether. The heat output is dramatically higher.

 

[BrunDog]

Also, sounds like you need some legit automation!

 

[schematix]

Also, sounds like you need some legit automation!

Amen to that.

One of these days i'm gonna build a fully automatic, full sanitary rig, including ditching these corny kegs.

 

[obeahsf]

@BrunDog - do you have any thoughts on sizing this for 1BBL?

Target boil-off rate of about 2.15GPH. Your calculator figures ~17 GPH flow rate from the nozzle. I was thinking of using a 1.5" TC. Wondering if you have any thoughts on the narrow diameter of the tee. I.E. will there not be enough contact area between the spray and the steam to optimize the process? Or, should it be fine?

Thank you.

 

[schematix]

OK so i just gave my steam slayer it's first wet run. I measured 15 GPH coming out of the nozzle (2 gallons in 8 minutes). I bought the 9 GPH nozzle option.

That doesn't seem quite right. Thoughts anyone?

I'm about 70 minutes from transferring to the BK.

 

[mongoose33]

OK so i just gave my steam slayer it's first wet run. I measured 15 GPH coming out of the nozzle (2 gallons in 8 minutes). I bought the 9 GPH nozzle option.

That doesn't seem quite right. Thoughts anyone?

I'm about 70 minutes from transferring to the BK.

I got about 12 gallons and a cup or so in an hour with my 9gph nozzle. I thought about trying to buy the 6gph nozzle and see if it would help any.

 

[ancientmariner52]

OK so i just gave my steam slayer it's first wet run. I measured 15 GPH coming out of the nozzle (2 gallons in 8 minutes). I bought the 9 GPH nozzle option.

That doesn't seem quite right. Thoughts anyone?

I'm about 70 minutes from transferring to the BK.

Have you checked your line pressure? I believe these nozzles are rated at 40psi. Higher pressure will give a higher flow rate, I think.

I once knew a fellow who was too cheap to buy a selection of carburetor jets for his motorcycle. He would solder up the old jet and drill a new, smaller, hole. Not a reccomendation, just throwing it out there.

 

[schematix]

Last time I checked my house pressure was 70 psi. I probably should have bought the smaller nozzle.

I ended up using this for half the boil and had a mixed bag of results.

It is definitely capable of removing the steam, even through the smaller 1/2" orifice. My boil off rate was only 1/2 Ghr. Usually i get about 3/4 G/hr

However i bought this for the purpose of reducing the brewing odor from the steam. I will say my entire house smells worse than anything I've ever smelled from brewing odors. Even worse than pre-LODO mash smell permeating the house. My wife said she smelled it in the garage before she walked in the house. It's horrific. Almost like someone misted bong water throughout the house.

So in principle it worked but i think i need to send the hot water straight to the drain and probably even chase it down the drain with more water. Something to try for next time.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Last time I checked my house pressure was 70 psi. I probably should have bought the smaller nozzle.

I ended up using this for half the boil and had a mixed bag of results.

It is definitely capable of removing the steam, even through the smaller 1/2" orifice. My boil off rate was only 1/2 Ghr. Usually i get about 3/4 G/hr

However i bought this for the purpose of reducing the brewing odor from the steam. I will say my entire house smells worse than anything I've ever smelled from brewing odors. Even worse than pre-LODO mash smell permeating the house. My wife said she smelled it in the garage before she walked in the house. It's horrific. Almost like someone misted bong water throughout the house.

So in principle it worked but i think i need to send the hot water straight to the drain and probably even chase it down the drain with more water. Something to try for next time.

So, nearly double the pressure giving nearly double the flow. I wonder if the extra flow is pulling the odor out with it? On steam ships, we used a jet of steam in a gadget called an air ejector to create a vacuum in the main engine's condenser. Some thing similar might be happening here.

 

[schematix]

So, nearly double the pressure giving nearly double the flow. I wonder if the extra flow is pulling the odor out with it? On steam ships, we used a jet of steam in a gadget called an air ejector to create a vacuum in the main engine's condenser. Some thing similar might be happening here.

I think dumping into a bucket sitting in ambient air vs steam going up 12” into the hood and outside is why. I bet if I piped this to a drain it’d be nearly odorless.

I may have smelled old stale bong water before that wasn’t this pungent.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Welp, my beautiful boil kettle is taking a trip back to Spike tomorrow for it’s new port! Sure beats the price of a new hood instillation. So glad I didn’t sell my old boil kettle because I have to get 3 beers out in under 2 months. So it will have to be garage door wide open until then.

Too bad about the smell. So what was the water like other than oder? Useable for cleaning or watering plants? Or would you not subject your plants to it either?

 

[CodeSection]

Welp, my beautiful boil kettle is taking a trip back to Spike tomorrow for it’s new port! Sure beats the price of a new hood instillation. So glad I didn’t sell my old boil kettle because I have to get 3 beers out in under 2 months. So it will have to be garage door wide open until then.

Too bad about the smell. So what was the water like other than oder? Useable for cleaning or watering plants? Or would you not subject your plants to it either?

Glad to hear you are having SB installing the port. You will not be disappointed.

I do not collect the water as others are trying, so I have no odor issues. I run the drain hose out through a sliding glass door and into a large planter/flower bed 3'x15'. I see no ill affects to the plants.

 

[PeteSeattle]

I got about 12 gallons and a cup or so in an hour with my 9gph nozzle. I thought about trying to buy the 6gph nozzle and see if it would help any.

So before I purchase my condenser ... are you finding that 9gph may be too much?