Big TX Home Brew E-Herms Build Out

[BigBobsBrews]

At the moment nothing has been bought, but now that you bring up wire. I'm getting mixed information, and not sure how I want to procede. I plan to use 8awg between the breaker and the spa panel, 30ft, outside in conduit, or at lease that was the plan. Today I'm wondering if I should be using 6awg wire.

Above 40 amps you should be using the 6awg. Especially considering that it's a 30 ft. run.

 

[Lucky_Chicken]

At the moment nothing has been bought, but now that you bring up wire. I'm getting mixed information, and not sure how I want to procede. I plan to use 8awg stranded between the breaker and the spa panel, 30ft, outside in conduit, or at least that was the plan. If you research the wire, manufacturers and retailers all vary.

How much wattage do you plan to pull? That will determine how big your breaker and wiring needs to be.

I used a 50A breaker and 6 ga wire so that I could run 2 pots at once.

 

[lschiavo]

FUSE MINIMUM WIRE
15 #14
20 #12
30 #10
40 #8
50 #6

There are exceptions but for our purposes, this should get you by.

 

[hatrickwah]

Theoretically, I'm only planning on running one element at a time, but I'm building such that I could run 2 in case. I found online that there are actually grades of insulation that impact the amperage allowed. I can run 55a on 8awg, but it has to have the top level insulation 90 degree C. I will likely go 6awg. Fun will be fishing it all through the conduit.

 

[lschiavo]

Theoretically, I'm only planning on running one element at a time, but I'm building such that I could run 2 in case. I found online that there are actually grades of insulation that impact the amperage allowed. I can run 55a on 8awg, but it has to have the top level insulation 90 degree C. I will likely go 6awg. Fun will be fishing it all through the conduit.

This is only used in derating. The NEC lists the minimum wire size based on fuse/breaker size.

 

[hatrickwah]

This is only used in derating. The NEC lists the minimum wire size based on fuse/breaker size.

Gotcha, glad I budgeted for 6# then.

 

[hatrickwah]

So i checked my 240v service on my dryer. Confirmed, my voltage is 270v. Any ideas anyone? Why so high?

 

[BigBobsBrews]

I have no idea what to make of that, but I'm curious do your 120v outlets read 135v?

 

[hatrickwah]

I have no idea what to make of that, but I'm curious do your 120v outlets read 135v?

Everything is as any other home. Nothing is marked any different. Thinking this is Houston's idea of 120/240 and i'll just have to roll with it. I am using 10# wire on the elements anyway, so 30a breakers inside, should be all okay.

 

[lschiavo]

So i checked my 240v service on my dryer. Confirmed, my voltage is 270v. Any ideas anyone? Why so high?

Is your meter accurate? If it's digital, I have a few that are all over the place. I have a good old analog meter that I use when it's critical. Test with another meter if you can.

 

[hatrickwah]

Is your meter accurate? If it's digital, I have a few that are all over the place. I have a good old analog meter that I use when it's critical. Test with another meter if you can.

Just have a cheap digital. It's been pretty good, but not great. Nothing else in the house has issues with power, so I'll move forward, over engineer the design and go from there. Once the system is put together, I'll stress test it to see the limits, I'm fine with one element only at a time, but both would be icing on the cake.

 

[lschiavo]

Just have a cheap digital. It's been pretty good, but not great. Nothing else in the house has issues with power, so I'll move forward, over engineer the design and go from there. Once the system is put together, I'll stress test it to see the limits, I'm fine with one element only at a time, but both would be icing on the cake.

It's probably just the meter then.

Capacity to run both elements is nice. I would recommend starting that way if you can. There are many occasions when I use both. I actually have the wiring installed and all the parts to add a second element to my HLT for quicker heating. I have 3 circuits run to the brewery, 50A 240, 30A 240 and 20A 120 for my controller. I may go 20 gallon someday and I won't need to add any feeds

 

[hatrickwah]

Okay, so this day could have gone better with regard to this project. I received my breaker for the panel outside today, only to find that the spot where it goes, is of no use. Turns out the contacts that my breaker locks onto, and through which the electricity flows, were broken off prior. So my 2 pole, 2 inch breaker is of no use, I now have to find a 1" 2 pole 50a breaker for a 14 year old Challenger electrical panel, or else replace the panel. Unless, it is okay to run the 220v through the conduit, with no pre breaker, and tie that into my spa panel? How about, doubt it. Anyone have any ideas here? What makes this even more complicated is that there really is only the option of the 1", 2 pole breaker. All the breakers in the box are 1" 1 pole, 2 breaker config except the 60a for my A/C (or dryer). Even the 30a for the dryer/a/c is a 2 switch, 1 inch type. I'm not really up for replacing the entire panel right now.

 

[lschiavo]

Can you post a pic of the panel?

 

[hatrickwah]

Can you post a pic of the panel?

Where I had original planned to put the breaker:

Where it is going to have to sit instead:

The crap Challenger panel:

Woudl this one fit and swap the bottom 2 switch block of 15a breakers?

 

[lschiavo]

Many panels have the buss clipped opposite the main...frustrating!

I have never seen a panel that full of tandems! A bigger panel sure is cheaper.

The combo tandem is what you need. I can't say if a homeline breaker will fit in a challenger. Technically it is not proper to use it. See if you can find that breaker from Cutler Hammer and you will be good for sure.

 

[hatrickwah]

Many panels have the buss clipped opposite the main...frustrating!

I have never seen a panel that full of tandems! A bigger panel sure is cheaper.

The combo tandem is what you need. I can't say if a homeline breaker will fit in a challenger. Technically it is not proper to use it. See if you can find that breaker from Cutler Hammer and you will be good for sure.

Turns out the Eaton Cutler BR breakers are considered a valid substitute, thanks to the corporate merger world. I just wish I was informed of this before I ordered a breaker online for $20 that I could have bought at the box for less than $10, and returned when it didn't worked.

Tomorrow I head to the box store to purchase a 30a/50a dual 240v breaker by Eaton that I can put in 2 1" spaces, as well as a single dual 15a 120v breaker for 1 1" space. I just hope they have the big one in stock, the websites weren't too reassuring.

 

[hatrickwah]

I have never seen a panel that full of tandems! A bigger panel sure is cheaper.

Sad part, this is my second house had a panel full of tandems. My last house, a built in 2007, had a tiny GE panel full of tandems. The panel was practically the smallest box out there, I swear the builder was cutting corners. I left it full when we moved.

Someday, down the road, we'll probably swap out the panel here, put in a surge protector, etc. But I'm not up for dropping money on that yet.

 

[lschiavo]

I looked up the Eaton number: BQ2502115

 

[lschiavo]

Quick search: Cutler Hammer BQ2502115 - Bay Breakers Online

Not too bad for price. You can probably find cheaper with some searching.

 

[hatrickwah]

Hit up the electric supply shop today. No din products, and this branch, no breaker for my panel. I'll check out another location tomorrow. On a high note, though, I confirmed something I already knew, BIG BOX = BIG $$$$. I just bought my 6# wire for $0.60 at the supply house, when big box wanted $1.30. The savings for now is going in the bank, but it may go to the hardware for a large disconnect switch (KU363N).

Pulled the trigger on the BCS unit, and 4 temp probes, [2] 6" and [2] 4". Yesterday I found the LEDs I needed on Ebay for a deal, so I ended up ordering more than I originally planned. P-J's drawing with the LEDs indicating BCS control inspired it. Last night I also picked up the conduit and hardware for installing the circuit along my exterior wall from the panel to my garage, I'll probably grab some spray paint to conceal the tube a little for my HOA. Tonight I'm planning on picking up the breaker I need.

I'm hoping to be brewing with the electric rig on Christmas, but if China postal service doesn't get my parts, I may just have to use the old trusty propane rig.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Capacity to run both elements is nice.

I'll second that. I use both elements at once (at various times in the process) every time I brew.

Not necessary, but very convenient.

TB

 

[hatrickwah]

I have just about all my pieces ordered up now. Just have two shipments left to order. One being the remaining valves and pieces from Bargain Fittings, the other being my HERMS coil. Originally I had planned a stainless steel coil, the Midwest Supply, 50ft, but at the moment, budget just got tightened up, and Midwest has no idea when they are getting any more in stock.

TB, where did you finally order your coil from? What are the chances Home Depot or Lowes has 1/2" coil, 25' long minimum? Which compression fittings did you use on the copper?

 

[Tiber_Brew]

TB, where did you finally order your coil from? What are the chances Home Depot or Lowes has 1/2" coil, 25' long minimum? Which compression fittings did you use on the copper?

I merely bought 25 ft of 1/2" Cu from the hardware store downtown (sold by the foot). I would imagine a big box hardware store would have 1/2" Cu by the foot and by the 50/100 ft roll.

I used the compression fittings from Bargain Fittings. You should be careful, since those are SS, and you don't want to tighten down the SS compression onto Cu like you would with SS tubing. You could just remove the bevelled ferrule and add a couple more silicone o-rings, then tighten it fairly lightly. That way, you can remove the coil for whatever reason, and still get a seal when you reinstall it.

TB

 

[P-J]

This is the place for the best prices on copper tubing that I've been able to find:
coppertubingsales.com

1/2" OD X 25FT - REF - $26.01
1/2" OD X 50FT - REF - $51.30

Unless you get really lucky somewhere else.

 

[hatrickwah]

This is the place for the best prices on copper tubing that I've been able to find:
coppertubingsales.com

1/2" OD X 25FT - REF - $26.01
1/2" OD X 50FT - REF - $51.30

Unless you get really lucky somewhere else.

Now that is tempting. I'm liking the 50 footer. I think I'll probably order the 50 ft coil, then make my coil, then determine what length the coil will ultimately become.

 

[hatrickwah]

This is the place for the best prices on copper tubing that I've been able to find:
coppertubingsales.com

1/2" OD X 25FT - REF - $26.01
1/2" OD X 50FT - REF - $51.30

Unless you get really lucky somewhere else.

Turns out, if you call your local plumbing supply house, these prices could possible be the same. I called up a supply house here in Houston, they didn't have em on the shelf, but all their other locations did. Same price, cheaper freight (since its in state). If they ship today, I'll have the copper tomorrow.

 

[hatrickwah]

It's official. Everything should be ordered now. It's now just a matter of time, waiting on the Chinese postal service.
In the meantime, plenty of work to do on preparing the garage for the electric brewery.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

It's official. Everything should be ordered now. It's now just a matter of time, waiting on the Chinese postal service.
In the meantime, plenty of work to do on preparing the garage for the electric brewery.

Right on! Now the fun begins.

TB

 

[hatrickwah]

Getting closer.
All my necessary parts are in, SSRs, contacts, etc. Now I'm waiting on LEDs, switches, and DIN rail terminal blocks. Should have everything before the long weekend.

Tomorrow though, time to pull out the hammer drill and makes a hole in the brick exterior.