Big, big starter

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The first graph shows the viability bouncing around mostly between 80-90%, I wouldn't feel comfortable with such fine distinction, the data are to noisy.
Yeah, it looks like they went just to the end. It would be informative to go farther, unless the E&J Gallo folks didn't want them to. Still, the 'food' is pretty much gone by day 15. They might have stopped because the yeast are flocculating and going below the measurable cells/ml.

Why does my Apfelwine take off like a rocket on 2nd generation?

I pour off the slurry and re-use half and its going crazy pretty quick AND is done faster.
 
Why does my Apfelwine take off like a rocket on 2nd generation?

I pour off the slurry and re-use half and its going crazy pretty quick AND is done faster.
&
They might have stopped because the yeast are flocculating and going below the measurable cells/ml.
I should have said "...measurable cells/ml in suspension." There are a ton of live ones in the slurry.
 
It is funny to me how the yeast I buy that comes in a vial and has been in cold storage for weeks is still very healthy and happy when introduced into my wort!
Big difference between live, dead, and dormant yeast cells!

Starters are kind of like blood, most people need the red cells from blood and not the plasma. (red cells are the live guys that carry food and oxygen)
Cold crashing the starter is the easy way to seperate the yeast(cells) from the wort(plasma) that was created by the starter!
Where I work we use huge centrifuges to seperate the cells from the plasma, hmmm, maybe I can take my starters to work and run them throught the centrifuge!!
On second thought I will just use my fridge;)
 
It is funny to me how the yeast I buy that comes in a vial and has been in cold storage for weeks is still very healthy and happy when introduced into my wort!
Big difference between live, dead, and dormant yeast cells!

Starters are kind of like blood, most people need the red cells from blood and not the plasma. (red cells are the live guys that carry food and oxygen)
Cold crashing the starter is the easy way to seperate the yeast(cells) from the wort(plasma) that was created by the starter!
Where I work we use huge centrifuges to seperate the cells from the plasma, hmmm, maybe I can take my starters to work and run them throught the centrifuge!!
On second thought I will just use my fridge;)

It is funny to me how the yeast I buy that comes in a vial and has been in cold storage for weeks is still very healthy and happy when introduced into my wort!

Apples and oranges dude. When white labs or wyeast package their yeast they do so to provide the most healthy yeast possible.

Starters are kind of like blood, most people need the red cells from blood and not the plasma.

I don’t give blood and never received it but don’t you get the plasma and blood cells together when getting a transfusion? If so how does this support decanting?

Cold crashing the starter is the easy way to seperate the yeast(cells) from the wort(plasma) that was created by the starter

The debate is not how to separate cells from wort, that’s the easy part but to maintain the health and viability of the separated cells.
 
Did you ever find the source for this 50% assertion? I am very interested!

Not yet. I have hundreds of Brewing magazines from over the years and it will take some time to find the one article.
Greg Doss briefly talked about the yeast health from a decanted starter vs. 15 hour starter but the slides are not on the AHA website yet.
 
Apples and oranges dude. When white labs or wyeast package their yeast they do so to provide the most healthy yeast possible.]
Yes, they package their yeast to survive a certain amount of time with a predictable amount of cell loss under specific conditions. I cannot imagine too many brewers who make starters with the intention of leaving them in the fridge for a month or more!


King of Cascade;2149631I don’t give blood and never received it but don’t you get the plasma and blood cells together when getting a transfusion? If so how does this support decanting? said:
What I am getting at is when making a starter you are increasing the volume of yeast to pitch and since the yeast is all you need then decant the beer off of your starter.


King of Cascade;2149631The debate is not how to separate cells from wort said:
Once you put the starter in the fridge the yeast will go dormant and drop out of solution. The idea of crashing a starter is with the assumption you will use the yeast within a short period of time. In other words, the yeast should not sit long enough in the fridge to die off in an amount that will impact your fermentation.
 
So the take away from all of this:

Cold Crash your yeast at High Kraussen (the recommended time at which to pitch your starter as far as I have ever heard), decant, and pitch.

This makes sure that when you put your yeast into a dormant state that the cells are at their most viable point and that it hasn't run out of Big Macs/Food so none have started dying off. This is assuming that you dont want what is left over from the wort youused for your starter. Personally I use wort from my the actual brew im making the starter for and let my brew sit for 24 hours without yeast in it. Slightly risky for contamination pruposes, but I have had no issues.
 
In other words, the yeast should not sit long enough in the fridge to die off in an amount that will impact your fermentation.

Yes, of course that is how we all feel except King of Cascades. He says that there is a 50% die-off in two days, and that there is a source out there that has scientifically shown this to be true. He will submit some evidence to support this soon.
 
Yes, of course that is how we all feel except King of Cascades. He says that there is a 50% die-off in two days, and that there is a source out there that has scientifically shown this to be true. He will submit some evidence to support this soon.

Oh thanks, I understand now, I must have missed that somewhere.

That is interesting though, I would imagine you could have a 50% die off if you don't take care of the little guys but otherwise I cannot wait to see the article;)
 
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