rabeb25
HE of who can not be spoken of.
I have been curiously reading this sub-forum for some time now, I have been a BIABer for some time, but not in the "traditional sense", just used a bag in my MT instead of a false bottom, simply for ease of clean up. I consider myself a put your money where your mouth and love to tinker kind of guy so when I saw a bunch of different claims namely the 10 minute mash thread, it piqued my interest. Before I go on a little about me for background...
Started brewing in 2000, have been brewing all grain since 2000 as well. Have built many automated brew systems, my previous setup which was a 2 vessel fully automated electric rig, was in the NY times, and featured on the AHA as well(at the time the first of its kind, I believe). I have taken all the classes to become a Judge(just no test), feel I have quite a good palette and used to compete and do quite well. I have roughly ~600 batches of beer under my belt, and with that said I look to produce the best beer as possible on a home scale, and I don't think my pursuit of that will ever stop. I am not biased in any way towards one brewing style or another, but I do tend to follow German brewing standards. I don't want this to feel like a brag or a boast, but want to give you some background on me and my findings. I also don't want this to be an end all be all discussion either. I am not looking to start fights only show what I have found in my tests.
So with that the initial test rig
Standard configuration, 2 vessel HERMS accurate to the tenth of a degree fully automated. Been using a bag in the MT for some time as the vessels are not very movable to clean, and the bag was just a lift and empty. The difference was the standard was to NOT lift or squeeze the bag until cleaning time, meaning the literal only reason the bag was there was for ease of cleaning.
Fermentation is all the same. Temperature controlled Fridge with Brewpi and us05 at my standard fermentation temp of 66F(via temp probe in middle of wort)
Test 1: Brew a standard recipe and lift/sqeeze bag, then transfer all liquor to the BK. Adjusted grain absorption to account for the bag squeeze, and off we went.
Recipe Irish red, times brewed ~10.
Mash pH 5.4
Mash time 60 minutes
Mash temp 154
Boil time 60 minutes
SG 1.050
FG 1.016
Brewhouse Eff% 77
Test 2:Went to single vessel. Adjusted all parameters for no MT and no MT losses. New setup:
Recipe Cream Ale, times brewed ~50+
Mash pH 5.34
Mash time 60 minutes
Mash temp 151 initial, 146 finish
Boil time 60 minutes.
SG 1.040
FG 1.007
Brewhouse Eff% 82
Test 3: Stayed with single vessel added direct heat and stirring
Recipe Nilo's Blue moon, times brewed ~10+
Mash pH 5.36
Mash time 60 minutes
Mash temp 156 +-3f
Boil time 60 minutes
SG 1.050
FG 1.014
Brewhouse eff% 80
Test 4: All out crazy...Single vessel direct heat added recirc, crush to flour
Recipe Centennial Blonde
Mash ph 5.32
Mash time 20 minutes
Mash temp 152
Boil time 30 minutes
SG 1.048
FG 1.006
Brewhouse eff% 80
Note Finished brew day from heating water to lights out at the brewery under 2hrs.
Ok so all beers went to ferment, ferment went along as normal. Beers where then kegged and carbed, and sampling commenced at my clubs beer meeting on 2 of the 4 (Irish Red, and Blonde). We have some very seasoned veterans and a few Certified judges as well. Only 1 of the people present knew the nature all were just told to taste and detail the beers.
Test 1 Irish Red: Initial aroma there is something, some said a hint of butter, but the consensus was "something", it was really hard to put a finger on. Maybe slight toffee, maybe biscuit. Not off putting per say, but it was there as a hint. Body and finish of the beer was very good. Just like it had been in the past. consensus was I had to give out the recipe a few times
. I guess you could say it could be anything that caused that initial aroma.
Test 4 Blonde: This one kind of threw everyone for a loop (including myself). Off the top the aroma is slight corn, slight DMS maybe, but everyone kind of said no to DMS but some form of sweet semi-corny aroma, which did dissipate. The initial sip on the tongue was nice, a hint of malt, but then that quickly faded to a graininess, then went semi earthy, then to peppery. Many asked if it was Belgian. I would not say it is a bad beer per say, but certainly not what the previous batches of this beer have been.
Test 2 and 3 have only been sampled by me.
Test 2 Cream Ale: A caveat I make my cream ales just like like lagers. 60% 2row, 40% adjuncts, Low gravities (SG, and FG). So they drink like light lagers and are easy to turn. Aroma, none(expected). Initial taste is good, in the middle I get a slight green apple, then that finishes dry with a slight malt flavor. Perhaps it will age out the apple??
Test 3 Blue moon: The best way I can describe this beer is bleh, its not bad, but its not great either. Aroma is faint orange/citrus, taste is orange..sorta. it's interesting, aromas and tastes seem out of place?
Ranking the beers:
1. Test 1 Irish Red
2 Test 2 Cream Ale
3 Test 3 Blue moon
4 Test 4 Blonde ( I am aware that the lack of 60 minute boil could be negatively affecting this beer as well)
For my testing which is not very scientific, it seems as if the more I futzed with the grains/mash the more the end product was effected. I would say it like this:
If constant was a 40 point beer by BJCP it would fall like this:
Test 1 was 37
Test 2 was 34
Test 3 was 30
Test 4 was 27
Again not really scientific, but data none the less. I will be brewing a beer using my tradional methods for the next round to make sure my process is not the factor, but I don't think it is. Anyway, take that how you may, hope it helps and cheers!
Started brewing in 2000, have been brewing all grain since 2000 as well. Have built many automated brew systems, my previous setup which was a 2 vessel fully automated electric rig, was in the NY times, and featured on the AHA as well(at the time the first of its kind, I believe). I have taken all the classes to become a Judge(just no test), feel I have quite a good palette and used to compete and do quite well. I have roughly ~600 batches of beer under my belt, and with that said I look to produce the best beer as possible on a home scale, and I don't think my pursuit of that will ever stop. I am not biased in any way towards one brewing style or another, but I do tend to follow German brewing standards. I don't want this to feel like a brag or a boast, but want to give you some background on me and my findings. I also don't want this to be an end all be all discussion either. I am not looking to start fights only show what I have found in my tests.
So with that the initial test rig
Standard configuration, 2 vessel HERMS accurate to the tenth of a degree fully automated. Been using a bag in the MT for some time as the vessels are not very movable to clean, and the bag was just a lift and empty. The difference was the standard was to NOT lift or squeeze the bag until cleaning time, meaning the literal only reason the bag was there was for ease of cleaning.
Fermentation is all the same. Temperature controlled Fridge with Brewpi and us05 at my standard fermentation temp of 66F(via temp probe in middle of wort)
Test 1: Brew a standard recipe and lift/sqeeze bag, then transfer all liquor to the BK. Adjusted grain absorption to account for the bag squeeze, and off we went.
Recipe Irish red, times brewed ~10.
Mash pH 5.4
Mash time 60 minutes
Mash temp 154
Boil time 60 minutes
SG 1.050
FG 1.016
Brewhouse Eff% 77
Test 2:Went to single vessel. Adjusted all parameters for no MT and no MT losses. New setup:
Recipe Cream Ale, times brewed ~50+
Mash pH 5.34
Mash time 60 minutes
Mash temp 151 initial, 146 finish
Boil time 60 minutes.
SG 1.040
FG 1.007
Brewhouse Eff% 82
Test 3: Stayed with single vessel added direct heat and stirring
Recipe Nilo's Blue moon, times brewed ~10+
Mash pH 5.36
Mash time 60 minutes
Mash temp 156 +-3f
Boil time 60 minutes
SG 1.050
FG 1.014
Brewhouse eff% 80
Test 4: All out crazy...Single vessel direct heat added recirc, crush to flour
Recipe Centennial Blonde
Mash ph 5.32
Mash time 20 minutes
Mash temp 152
Boil time 30 minutes
SG 1.048
FG 1.006
Brewhouse eff% 80
Note Finished brew day from heating water to lights out at the brewery under 2hrs.
Ok so all beers went to ferment, ferment went along as normal. Beers where then kegged and carbed, and sampling commenced at my clubs beer meeting on 2 of the 4 (Irish Red, and Blonde). We have some very seasoned veterans and a few Certified judges as well. Only 1 of the people present knew the nature all were just told to taste and detail the beers.
Test 1 Irish Red: Initial aroma there is something, some said a hint of butter, but the consensus was "something", it was really hard to put a finger on. Maybe slight toffee, maybe biscuit. Not off putting per say, but it was there as a hint. Body and finish of the beer was very good. Just like it had been in the past. consensus was I had to give out the recipe a few times
. I guess you could say it could be anything that caused that initial aroma.Test 4 Blonde: This one kind of threw everyone for a loop (including myself). Off the top the aroma is slight corn, slight DMS maybe, but everyone kind of said no to DMS but some form of sweet semi-corny aroma, which did dissipate. The initial sip on the tongue was nice, a hint of malt, but then that quickly faded to a graininess, then went semi earthy, then to peppery. Many asked if it was Belgian. I would not say it is a bad beer per say, but certainly not what the previous batches of this beer have been.
Test 2 and 3 have only been sampled by me.
Test 2 Cream Ale: A caveat I make my cream ales just like like lagers. 60% 2row, 40% adjuncts, Low gravities (SG, and FG). So they drink like light lagers and are easy to turn. Aroma, none(expected). Initial taste is good, in the middle I get a slight green apple, then that finishes dry with a slight malt flavor. Perhaps it will age out the apple??
Test 3 Blue moon: The best way I can describe this beer is bleh, its not bad, but its not great either. Aroma is faint orange/citrus, taste is orange..sorta. it's interesting, aromas and tastes seem out of place?
Ranking the beers:
1. Test 1 Irish Red
2 Test 2 Cream Ale
3 Test 3 Blue moon
4 Test 4 Blonde ( I am aware that the lack of 60 minute boil could be negatively affecting this beer as well)
For my testing which is not very scientific, it seems as if the more I futzed with the grains/mash the more the end product was effected. I would say it like this:
If constant was a 40 point beer by BJCP it would fall like this:
Test 1 was 37
Test 2 was 34
Test 3 was 30
Test 4 was 27
Again not really scientific, but data none the less. I will be brewing a beer using my tradional methods for the next round to make sure my process is not the factor, but I don't think it is. Anyway, take that how you may, hope it helps and cheers!
