Bells suing a small brewer

[sudbuddy]

here's a link to send Mr. Bell an email.

http://bellsbeer.com/contact/

That Lagunitas lawsuit was dropped due to consumer outrage, btw.

Here's the email I just sent Larry Bell:

Mr. Bell,

I was very disappointed to hear of your decision to sue Innovation brewing just because of a bumper sticker. You produced 310,000 barrels of beer last year, are in 18 states, and are very well respected in the craft beer community. I say community because that is what it used to be, but actions like this are sickening and cheapen the entire experience for everyone. In contrast, Innovation made only 500 barrels last year and are not available outside of North Carolina. Your decision to sue them because their BREWERY NAME uses one word from a bumper sticker you give away for free will likely put them out of business as the owners go broke fighting this useless legal battle. There is no way you can come out of this looking like anything other than a bully. Now you have sunk to the level of Tony Magee at Lagunitas, and I doubt that is how you want to be perceived. I hope that you see reason and stop this inane lawsuit. Until then, I have certainly had my last Bell's beer, and I will be spreading the word.

 

[philosofool]

Everyone knows that if Bell's doesn't attempt legal action, they effectively forfit the right to contest similar uses of "Brewing Innovation," right? The law does not allow you to pick and chose your trademark battles: you pretty much have to pursue them all

The real problem here isn't Bell's: it's trademark law and the legal requirement above. Laws (written by lawyers who benefit) have basically put large companies with valuable brands in a position where they have to spend money to protect that brand, and there's not easy way around it. You have to either sue or get someone to agree not to use your brand (effectively giving up theirs, which may not be worth millions of dollars, but probably is worth a fair amount in city wide market share); additionally, there are problems with legal arguments about encrochment--a gradual "watering down" of claims, that basically means anything that vaguely resembles your brand is lawyer time.

By the way, the solution, if you're thinking about starting a brewery is to pick something that can't be trade marked (region names, for example, can't be) and then design a good graphic, good tap handles, and other stuff that creates brand recognition.

 

[govner1]

It's NOT TRADEMARKED! So what are they forfeiting ?
Innovative lawsuit?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Everyone knows that if Bell's doesn't attempt legal action, they effectively forfit the right to contest similar uses of "Brewing Innovation," right? The law does not allow you to pick and chose your trademark battles: you pretty much have to pursue them all

The real problem here isn't Bell's: it's trademark law and the legal requirement above. Laws (written by lawyers who benefit) have basically put large companies with valuable brands in a position where they have to spend money to protect that brand, and there's not easy way around it. You have to either sue or get someone to agree not to use your brand (effectively giving up theirs, which may not be worth millions of dollars, but probably is worth a fair amount in city wide market share); additionally, there are problems with legal arguments about encrochment--a gradual "watering down" of claims, that basically means anything that vaguely resembles your brand is lawyer time.

By the way, the solution, if you're thinking about starting a brewery is to pick something that can't be trade marked (region names, for example, can't be) and then design a good graphic, good tap handles, and other stuff that creates brand recognition.

You'll have to speak louder to overcome the clink of the pitchforks and the roar of the fires.

 

[blizz81]

The real problem here isn't Bell's: it's trademark law and the legal requirement above. Laws (written by lawyers who benefit) have basically put large companies with valuable brands in a position where they have to spend money to protect that brand, and there's not easy way around it.

I'm sure their brand would suffer if other breweries were allowed to use the phrase "brewing innovation". The secret would get out - Bell's isn't the only brewery allowed to be innovative! Think of the backlash! Nobody would buy their product.

 

[feinbera]

Somebody should come up with a boilerplate, craft-brewery-to-craft-brewery licensing agreement, so somebody like Bell's could license their slogan to Innovation for, like, $1 a year. Bud can't argue "well, you didn't defend your intellectual property against these nobodies in North Carolina, so you must not mind if we steal it, too," Bell's keeps their slogan, Innovation keeps their name, everybody but the lawyers is happy.

 

[Thanks_Yeasties]

what? are we all agreed, f*** bells?

sign me up, im in!

 

[MaxStout]

It's called trademark dilution, and it doesn't matter if the trademark is registered or not. The protected mark only need be "famous," and Bell's could make a compelling argument that theirs is indeed "famous" under the provisions of the Lanham Act.

It's unfortunate that this happens to be a big guy v. little guy case, but Bells has an obligation to protect their IP.

 

[ndinh]

So if I opened a brewery and named my beer 'This sick beat Number 9 Innovation IPA', I'll get sued by Magic Hat, Lagunitas, Bells and Taylor Swift?

 

[jakenbacon]

So if I opened a brewery and named my beer 'This sick beat Number 9 Innovation IPA', I'll get sued by Magic Hat, Lagunitas, Bells and Taylor Swift?

I think GilaMinumBeer would definitely think so....

 

[philosofool]

So if I opened a brewery and named my beer 'This sick beat Number 9 Innovation IPA', I'll get sued by Magic Hat, Lagunitas, Bells and Taylor Swift?

Taylor Swift can't sue because she doesn't make beer. The other guys can. I don't know if they would win; you might be able to call your compnay "Totally typical, Not Innovative Brewing" and not infringe; likewise with some mish-mash of otherwise trademarked stuff. You'd need someone who understands trademark better than I to answer that one.

 

[madscientist451]

I've just named my new start up nano brewery and have a slogan:
Ball's brewing; Want an innovative beer? Put tasty Ball's beer in your mouth.
Should I kickstart Ball's to make this innovation a reality?
Oops sorry, a Google search turned up a Balls Brewery in Indianapolis.
Can I use Salty Balls brewing?

 

[HumulusHead]

Unfortunately you can trademark just a work or a number.



The number 3 is trademarked by nascar



26.2 and 13.1 by sports apparel companies



And the word Apple by, well, Apple



Those are just a few example.

Paris Hilton trademarked the phrase "that's hot"

Don't give me **** for knowing that. I had motivation (read potential poon) at the time to watch her crappy show.

 

[iijakii]

Too bad not all can be like Russian River and Avery: http://averybrewing.com/our-ales/collaboration-not-litigation-ale/

 

[ruger988]

I've just named my new start up nano brewery and have a slogan:
Ball's brewing; Want an innovative beer? Put tasty Ball's beer in your mouth.
Should I kickstart Ball's to make this innovation a reality?
Oops sorry, a Google search turned up a Balls Brewery in Indianapolis.
Can I use Salty Balls brewing?

Only if you want to fight the South Park guys.

 

[agrazela]

I print onto Avery brand labels to use on my beer bottles. I wonder if Avery brewing will sue me?

 

[HumulusHead]

Only if you want to fight the South Park guys.

Chefs a *****, you should be ok

 

[Cyclman]

With any legal action, you can always instead get on the phone and work it out.

But sometimes the big bully likes to squash the little guy...we'll never know what really happened. Sad.

 

[bolus14]

Would be interesting to get the view point of Jim Koch, or other "higher ups" at Sam Adams. Seeing as how they have repeatedly helped small breweries survive in many ways. Helped by selling hops during the hop shortage, have the homebrewers competition every year which I would guess has helped some open small micro breweries, etc.

Another interesting concept as others have mentioned is that craft beer has become what it is because of collaboration and sharing of knowledge, not from under cutting the little man. Even breweries with very high recognition like Rogue, Stone, Ommegang, Allagash, Boulevard, Left Hand, etc don't have anywhere near the distribution size of BMC. Through collaboration businesses grow, reach different distribution channels and all involved SHOULD gain growth.

Another thing I have noticed is that you can see very different behaviors in micro brewery owners. There's one a few blocks from me and when I go for tastings or to fill a growler getting info out of them is like trying to pull teeth from a tiger. Another a little further away from me is practically willing to give the recipe away. I've been told to call ahead some time and the owner would be willing to give a "tour" while brewing. I've asked him about yeast strains, mash temps, hop types, hop schedules and he's divulged all of it without hesitation. He seems to genuinely enjoy jus ttalking about what he loves doing and will share just about everything he can.

 

[treacheroustexan]

http://teespring.com/quitbullyingcraftbeer

Check it out.

 

[DrankGoodness]

http://teespring.com/quitbullyingcraftbeer

Check it out.

Ha! I'm thinking about reserving one even though they don't distribute here.

 

[treacheroustexan]

Ha! I'm thinking about reserving one even though they don't distribute here.

I thought about it at work tonight and made that when I got home. I just thought it was funny. I didn't know through teespring you got paid a cut of what you sell until after i made the shirt, so I put on there if any of them do sell, that money will go to Innovation. Just hope I don't get sued. haha.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

I've just named my new start up nano brewery and have a slogan:
Ball's brewing; Want an innovative beer? Put tasty Ball's beer in your mouth.
Should I kickstart Ball's to make this innovation a reality?
Oops sorry, a Google search turned up a Balls Brewery in Indianapolis.
Can I use Salty Balls brewing?

How bout "Musty Michigan Ball's Brewery"??

 

[plumbrew]

Larry bell is a total ****** bag from what I hear from friends and family in the industry. This makes total sense coming from him.

+1000. A real jerk. It's a reason I do my best to not drink Bell's.

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

I don't drink Bells because I've had a few of their beers and I jus wasn't impressed, then when I tried Two Hearted Ale, it twisted my stomach in a knot. I think its one of those situations where whatever yeast strain they use jus isnt appealing to me... Having said that, this is a real dick move. If Bell's (the owner, the lawyers, anyone affiliated with them) feel threatened in any way by Innovations use of the word innovation, then Bell's has got real corporate self esteem issues. If anyone knows of a way to donate to Innovation Brewerys legal costs so they can fight this bull****e lawsuit, please post it here

 

[blizz81]

Taylor Swift can't sue because she doesn't make beer. The other guys can.

At least as far as naming _breweries_ goes, it's not like it has to be in the same industry...a brewer / distiller here (Borgata) got sued by Borgata Casino and had to change their name.


I would imagine trademark doesn't care about industry either - you can't brew a beer and say "Just Do It" on the bottle (or have it as your general slogan)...hell, you probably can't even jokingly play off it and say "Just Drink It", etc.

 

[texwake]

Guess Bell has enough income offset the legal costs cause they are going to lose. Reputation sells/hurts more than a slogan. I'm boycotting Bell even though we cannot get it here in Texas haha.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I'm boycotting Bell even though we cannot get it here in Texas haha.

That will teach them a lesson! :rockin:

 

[TopherM]

Mike, I have to point out that what you say about trademarks is very misleading, if not outright wrong.

First off, Apple does not own a trademark on the word Apple. The trademark on the product name "Apple" is actually owned by a lamp & lamp shade company, which no doubt has an agreement to let the computer company use it. Apple owns the trademark to the logo of the apple with the bite out of it.

You also can't trademark numbers, so Nascar does not own trademark on the number three. They own a particular logo design of the number three.

Learn a bit about trademark law. It's very reasonable.

And Bell's isn't particularly being sh**ty here. If they sent the small brewery a cease and desist to protect their rights, and the small brewery ignored it, then Bell's only choice is to sue. I would bet the lawsuit has nothing to do with $$$, and has more to do with the small brewery telling Bells to f-off after they asked them to stop violating their trademarks. Good businesses don't go around suing unless they have to, and Bell's is a good business, so I would bet they had to.

 

[Ridire]

This was on Bell's Facebook page today:

To our Bell’s customers and the passionate craft beer community,
We want to clear up a few things regarding our federal trademark dispute with Innovation Brewing.

1. We have not, and are not asking them to change their name or their logo. There is no lawsuit. We are not suing them. We have not asked them for money. We have not asked them to stop selling their beer. We are asking them to withdraw their federal trademark application.

2. Our concern is with their United States trademark application and potential impact on our brand, which we have spent 30 years building.

3. I personally reached out to Innovation Brewing to try to settle this matter in February, 2014 and attempted to talk about this brewer to brewer instead of involving lawyers. Our efforts were rebuffed and Innovation Brewing choose to pursue this in the legal system.

4. Over the last year, we have offered co-existence agreements and have offered to pay for their legal fees. We tried to find solutions that would work for both of us. Their response was to ask for an exorbitant amount of money and we did not feel that was a collaborative solution.

5. All offers that we proposed were rejected and after more than a year of discussion regrettably, this matter has moved to the federal trademark office.
We have the utmost respect for Innovation Brewing and we are going to keep any comments we have regarding this matter positive, honest, and collaborative. We want them to continue to brew and do the good work they’re doing under their own name.

We hope to resolve this as swiftly as the system will allow.
The passion that we have seen over the past few days is a testament to how much the beer industry means to those who support it and why we are proud to be a part of it. We always appreciate further feedback and invite everyone to continue to share their concerns with us directly: http://bellsbeer.com/contact/

Sincerely,
Laura S. Bell
Vice President
Bell’s Brewery, Inc.

 

[Homercidal]

FWIW I honestly doubt any boycott of a few craft beer fans is going to change Larry Bell's mind on this. He is a hardnosed businessman and from what I've heard of him, likes things his way and isn't taken to taking advice from others. I may be completely wrong about him, but after watching him get seriously drunk and insisting on playing drums with a band visiting from CO, I can see how he got the reputation he has.

That said, I do still like most of Bell's beers. Two Hearted is the de facto standard for American IPA for me, and Oberon is a beer that I enjoy tremendously each spring. Boycotting hurts the entire company and everyone I've met there has been very nice. I would hate to affect their livelyhoods because of the actions of one man, especially when I doubt he cares enough to think of their welfare in the end.

Simple fact is, Bells legal department is doing what they think is best for the brand, and Larry Bell is just not the kind of person to interfere and work with a smaller brewery to make it ok for both of them. At least I'd be shocked if he did.

Also, I'm not terribly sure that their catchphrase is all that well known. I barely heard of it myself. It's certainly not as catchy as some of their others.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

This was on Bell's Facebook page today:

So the little guy is trying to screw the big guy. Ha!

 

[Ridire]

So the little guy is trying to screw the big guy. Ha!

Not saying that I believe Bell's version is 100% accurate, but I have seen the "little guy" who thinks he can extort a sum of money from "Goliath" which they think is insignificant to the big guy, but would change the life of the little guy. It does happen.

I have a feeling that the truth lies somewhere between the story initially posted here and the response from Bell's.

 

[Ridire]

Also, I'm not terribly sure that their catchphrase is all that well known. I barely heard of it myself. It's certainly not as catchy as some of their others.

This is why I can't understand Bell's letting it get to this point. I don't think I've ever heard this "slogan"...and I buy Bell's all the time.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Not saying that I believe Bell's version is 100% accurate, but I have seen the "little guy" who thinks he can extort a sum of money from "Goliath" which they think is insignificant to the big guy, but would change the life of the little guy. It does happen.

I have a feeling that the truth lies somewhere between the story initially posted here and the response from Bell's.

In the context of this thread, I sincerely hope that Bells story IS 100% correct.

It would further bolster the idiocy of this lynch mob mentality screaming boycott when they have no fvcking clue what is really going on beyond a "goliath" taking action against a "little guy".

 

[Homercidal]

Interesting. I just saw this on Bell's Facebook page. It kind of adds another twist into the whole thing. Apparently there was some amount of missing information regarding the dispute (as well knew there would be.)

To our Bell’s customers and the passionate craft beer community,

We want to clear up a few things regarding our federal trademark dispute with Innovation Brewing.

1. We have not, and are not asking them to change their name or their logo. There is no lawsuit. We are not suing them. We have not asked them for money. We have not asked them to stop selling their beer. We are asking them to withdraw their federal trademark application.

2. Our concern is with their United States trademark application and potential impact on our brand, which we have spent 30 years building.

3. I personally reached out to Innovation Brewing to try to settle this matter in February, 2014 and attempted to talk about this brewer to brewer instead of involving lawyers. Our efforts were rebuffed and Innovation Brewing choose to pursue this in the legal system.

4. Over the last year, we have offered co-existence agreements and have offered to pay for their legal fees. We tried to find solutions that would work for both of us. Their response was to ask for an exorbitant amount of money and we did not feel that was a collaborative solution.

5. All offers that we proposed were rejected and after more than a year of discussion regrettably, this matter has moved to the federal trademark office.

We have the utmost respect for Innovation Brewing and we are going to keep any comments we have regarding this matter positive, honest, and collaborative. We want them to continue to brew and do the good work they’re doing under their own name.

We hope to resolve this as swiftly as the system will allow.

The passion that we have seen over the past few days is a testament to how much the beer industry means to those who support it and why we are proud to be a part of it. We always appreciate further feedback and invite everyone to continue to share their concerns with us directly: http://bellsbeer.com/contact/

Sincerely,

Laura S. Bell
Vice President
Bell’s Brewery, Inc.

 

[Ridire]

Interesting. I just saw this on Bell's Facebook page. It kind of adds another twist into the whole thing. Apparently there was some amount of missing information regarding the dispute (as well knew there would be.)

To our Bell’s customers and the passionate craft beer community,

We want to clear up a few things regarding our federal trademark dispute with Innovation Brewing.

1. We have not, and are not asking them to change their name or their logo. There is no lawsuit. We are not suing them. We have not asked them for money. We have not asked them to stop selling their beer. We are asking them to withdraw their federal trademark application.

2. Our concern is with their United States trademark application and potential impact on our brand, which we have spent 30 years building.

3. I personally reached out to Innovation Brewing to try to settle this matter in February, 2014 and attempted to talk about this brewer to brewer instead of involving lawyers. Our efforts were rebuffed and Innovation Brewing choose to pursue this in the legal system.

4. Over the last year, we have offered co-existence agreements and have offered to pay for their legal fees. We tried to find solutions that would work for both of us. Their response was to ask for an exorbitant amount of money and we did not feel that was a collaborative solution.

5. All offers that we proposed were rejected and after more than a year of discussion regrettably, this matter has moved to the federal trademark office.

We have the utmost respect for Innovation Brewing and we are going to keep any comments we have regarding this matter positive, honest, and collaborative. We want them to continue to brew and do the good work they’re doing under their own name.

We hope to resolve this as swiftly as the system will allow.

The passion that we have seen over the past few days is a testament to how much the beer industry means to those who support it and why we are proud to be a part of it. We always appreciate further feedback and invite everyone to continue to share their concerns with us directly: http://bellsbeer.com/contact/

Sincerely,

Laura S. Bell
Vice President
Bell’s Brewery, Inc.

Go back one page in this thread...:cross:

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Interesting. I just saw this on Bell's Facebook page. It kind of adds another twist into the whole thing. Apparently there was some amount of missing information regarding the dispute (as well knew there would be.)

To our Bell’s customers and the passionate craft beer community,

We want to clear up a few things regarding our federal trademark dispute with Innovation Brewing.

1. We have not, and are not asking them to change their name or their logo. There is no lawsuit. We are not suing them. We have not asked them for money. We have not asked them to stop selling their beer. We are asking them to withdraw their federal trademark application.

2. Our concern is with their United States trademark application and potential impact on our brand, which we have spent 30 years building.

3. I personally reached out to Innovation Brewing to try to settle this matter in February, 2014 and attempted to talk about this brewer to brewer instead of involving lawyers. Our efforts were rebuffed and Innovation Brewing choose to pursue this in the legal system.

4. Over the last year, we have offered co-existence agreements and have offered to pay for their legal fees. We tried to find solutions that would work for both of us. Their response was to ask for an exorbitant amount of money and we did not feel that was a collaborative solution.

5. All offers that we proposed were rejected and after more than a year of discussion regrettably, this matter has moved to the federal trademark office.

We have the utmost respect for Innovation Brewing and we are going to keep any comments we have regarding this matter positive, honest, and collaborative. We want them to continue to brew and do the good work they’re doing under their own name.

We hope to resolve this as swiftly as the system will allow.

The passion that we have seen over the past few days is a testament to how much the beer industry means to those who support it and why we are proud to be a part of it. We always appreciate further feedback and invite everyone to continue to share their concerns with us directly: http://bellsbeer.com/contact/

Sincerely,

Laura S. Bell
Vice President
Bell’s Brewery, Inc.

Yes, their response was "If you want me to stop, fund my brewery."

How, Innovative.

 

[Ridire]

Yes, their response was "If you want me to stop, fund my brewery."

How, Innovative.

"Hell, Bell's won't even miss a couple hundred thousand dollars...".

Not sure that is what is going down, but I've seen it happen before.

 

[kombat]

Well well well, looks like maybe Bell's ISN'T the ruthless, bullying, corporate tyrant that the pitchfork-wielding mob portrayed them to be. How does that square with the rush-to-judgement, knee-jerk, anti-capitalist narrative the 99% Occupier know-it-all Millennials preach?