Bells suing a small brewer

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Homercidal

Homercidal

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The innovative way to support the small brewer is by NOT buying ANY Bell's products!
Someone must have way too much time on their hands a Bell's to even come up with such a lame excuse to sue a small start up!
 
310,000 barrel suing a 500 barrel over a non-trademark issue? What does this look like to everyone else? Bells taking a page from the ABInBev book?
 
The other half of it is the fruit cup prison lunch comparison. Go to prison and the first day someone asks for your fruit cup, pretty soon you are someones *best* friend in the showers.

To a lawyer/legal department at any business if they don't sue for something even as small as this, the implication is another brewery could use another slightly bigger slogan or marketing ploy. So to a lawyer/legal department you don't give you fruit cup on the first day in prison, no matter what, you beat up someone you can beat in a fight and show everyone how boss you are...

Not that this justifies it, its sad really that what we consider 'small' businesses start to act like 'big' businesses. I understand the logic and am not going to argue the merits of it, but I think its ridiculous. I'm glad I can go ahead and just clone brew a hopslam for friends instead of letting them buy any, as well I'll have to do a two hearted clone, odd that I can't think of any other beers from them I like...
 
kombat said:
IANAL (tee hee), but from what I've been told, it's not necessary to trademark a name/slogan to protect it. All that's required is to be able to conclusively prove that you were using it prior to the alleged infringer.
Click to expand...

But it's just a word; not a name or a slogan. This would be like Nike suing a small shoe start up named "Just Me" because they used the word "Just" (Just Do It).
 
kombat said:
IANAL (tee hee), but from what I've been told, it's not necessary to trademark a name/slogan to protect it. All that's required is to be able to conclusively prove that you were using it prior to the alleged infringer.
Click to expand...

If it wasn't important enough to trademark? Sounds like a specious argument but IANAL too.

I have had my last Hype Slam.
 
mbbransc said:
But it's just a word; not a name or a slogan. This would be like Nike suing a small shoe start up named "Just Me" because they used the word "Just" (Just Do It).
Click to expand...

Unfortunately you can trademark just a work or a number.

The number 3 is trademarked by nascar

26.2 and 13.1 by sports apparel companies

And the word Apple by, well, Apple

Those are just a few example.
 
Larry bell is a total ****** bag from what I hear from friends and family in the industry. This makes total sense coming from him.
 
Isn't it cute when a large brewery puts another small brewery out of business? Incidentally, Innovation has a lot of great beers that I would likely drink over Bells anyway.

****ers. Innovation won't likely survive this if they want to fight. Sad.
 
I understand trademark issues, having to sue to keep it, etc., but this one seems pretty lame. I could see if it's something Bells has on their packaging or they use in real advertising outside of a bumper sticker, but this just seems really bad. I'm not a big fan of being able to use common words together in a simple phrase that everyone uses, and claiming a trademark on it. I've heard the word "Innovation" "Innovative" used quite a bit in brewing. No one should be able to say they are the only innovative brewery. Or the only ones into innovation.
 
Mike_kever_kombi said:
Unfortunately you can trademark just a work or a number.

The number 3 is trademarked by nascar

26.2 and 13.1 by sports apparel companies

And the word Apple by, well, Apple

Those are just a few example.
Click to expand...

Hang on, this is a little misleading. The number '3' is trademarked by NASCAR as it pertains to stock car racing. It may even be specific to the stylization of it. If you want to slap the number '3' on a bottle of IPA, there's nothing they can do to stop you.

Likewise, if you want to start a brewery called "Apple Brewing," that's perfectly fine. You can start the "Apple T-shirt Company," "Apple Airlines," or "Apple Snowshoes." You just can't start a music company, computer company, phone company, tablet company... anything that overlaps with their current business lines.

Apple actually got into trouble over this with a British music label that owned the rights to the Beatles' library (they're named "Apple Music" or "Apple Records" or something). When Apple first started up a long time ago, the record label sued them. They eventually settled, but Apple agreed to stick to computers, and not venture into the music industry.

Well fast-forward to the invention of the iPod and the advent of iTunes, and the British company got a little p*ssed (and rightfully so). They eventually settled again, with Apple writing a huge (undisclosed) cheque. That's why it took so long for the Beatles' music to be available on iTunes, and why they made such a big deal about it when it finally did.
 
Hello said:
Isn't it cute when a large brewery puts another small brewery out of business? Incidentally, Innovation has a lot of great beers that I would likely drink over Bells anyway.

****ers. Innovation won't likely survive this if they want to fight. Sad.
Click to expand...

Yeah unfortunately, big companies have the capital to tie things up in litigation until the small guy goes broke trying to fight. Probably just best for innovation to cut their losses and come up with a new slogan.
 
While reading this I'm getting a nasty bitter taste in my mouth. Does this warrant tearing up my 2-Hearted clone recipe? Or should I rename it and remove the association so I can enjoy it again next time?

I avoid buying InBev products because they buy out Craft Breweries, and deception starts to creep in. I do not want to support that company, although we do inadvertently or without choice. Now we need to keep track of who's independent and who is not.

On the other side of the argument, isn't this great advertising for Innovation Brewing? Now I know they exist I want to try their beer. Could this be part of a clever marketing strategy?
 
This is wishful thinking:

Bell's founder Larry Bell would not discuss the issue. "This is a federal case and we will let it play out in federal court," he said. "We are not going to play it out in social media or a newspaper."


Mr. Bell has no control over social media. I propose a social media blitz to blacken Bell. So long as it isn't conducted by anybody related to Innovation Brewing there's nothing he can do about it. This is a case where Bell's will lose by winning. You can't have any effect on the outcome of the case, but you can make it very expensive for Bell. The ill will and negative publicity will hurt him far more than any imagined harm done by Innovation.

I've succeeded in bullying businesses into making things right by threatening to "go viral" over the issue in dispute several times.

"Little People" have a lot of power if they act together.......... The civil rights movement is an example, another is forcing the US to get out of Vietnam. More currently public pressure has stiffened the spines of companies like Google and Apple to refuse to provide back door keys to encryption. The act of one man Snowden has resulted in the exposure of numerous abuses, and forced changes....Ironically a patriotic act called treason by this government.

H.W.
 
This is a joke. The big man cutting the little man down.

I wonder if Bells asked them to remove it first before they just sued. I didn't read the article.

I go to MI all the time and the only beer I really care for of theirs is Hopslam. I personally don't understand the hype with 2 hearted. I only buy that if I'm in desperate need of a higher ABV and MI gas stations that don't carry craft beer sometimes have that.
 
As I mentioned several months ago, craft beer has grown large enough that the "let's all play nice" game is over. Protecting slogans, trademarks, labels all are an effort to protect that brewer's identity and intellectual property. This kind of junk is non-stop in other businesses.
 
IslandLizard said:
While reading this I'm getting a nasty bitter taste in my mouth. Does this warrant tearing up my 2-Hearted clone recipe? Or should I rename it and remove the association so I can enjoy it again next time?

I avoid buying InBev products because they buy out Craft Breweries, and deception starts to creep in. I do not want to support that company, although we do inadvertently or without choice. Now we need to keep track of who's independent and who is not.

On the other side of the argument, isn't this great advertising for Innovation Brewing? Now I know they exist I want to try their beer. Could this be part of a clever marketing strategy?
Click to expand...

Rename your recipe to, "My True Heart Ale."
 
edroberts said:
As I mentioned several months ago, craft beer has grown large enough that the "let's all play nice" game is over. Protecting slogans, trademarks, labels all are an effort to protect that brewer's identity and intellectual property. This kind of junk is non-stop in other businesses.
Click to expand...


Within 6 months here last year, two new breweries got sued and had to change their names. There was the Lagunitas "totally stoner hippie, man...I'm just a man of the people" suing over an "IPA" trademark or whatever.


I'm sure there's 100x more of this going on every day that doesn't even warrant making the top level of craft beer news. And yet craft beer drinkers are so worried about the morality of the beer they drink. I couldn't imagine trying to keep up with the morality of every company and all the head powers of the companies....hell, we could limit ourselves to homebrew and I still don't want to know what has to happen for me to get my grains, hops, yeast, and equipment!
 
blizz81 said:
Within 6 months here last year, two new breweries got sued and had to change their names. There was the Lagunitas "totally stoner hippie, man...I'm just a man of the people" suing over an "IPA" trademark or whatever.


I'm sure there's 100x more of this going on every day that doesn't even warrant making the top level of craft beer news. And yet craft beer drinkers are so worried about the morality of the beer they drink. I couldn't imagine trying to keep up with the morality of every company and all the head powers of the companies....hell, we could limit ourselves to homebrew and I still don't want to know what has to happen for me to get my grains, hops, yeast, and equipment!
Click to expand...

The sad thing is that if it was the smaller brewer suing the larger brewer for the same thing, everyone would cheer them on. There is a massive dislike for anything that has the slightest scent of big business in this country.
 
edroberts said:
The sad thing is that if it was the smaller brewer suing the larger brewer for the same thing, everyone would cheer them on. There is a massive dislike for anything that has the slightest scent of big business in this country.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. Idiotic claims are idiotic claims.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know that most breweries don't make huge profit margins, so why waste it on a legal department. Unless they have attorneys on retainer to fight the government and they were bored so they went looking to pick a fight with a little guy.
I'm part of a group driving up to GR for a beer weekend in June but I guess we'll skip Bells and spend more time at the rest.
 
This stuff happens all the time. Way more often than we realize. And it is the breweries with money to spend on legal hitting the breweries that cant afford to defend themselves.

Sweetwater brewing and 420 comes to mind. Around here, 2 startup breweries had to change their name (after operating for <1 year) because of cease and desist orders from other breweries. New Belgium said that they are considering unearthing an ancient language to name their beers without copyright infringement.

Collaboration not Litigation ale is a great example of brewers with the same goals working together. Collaboration provides positive exposure for everyone. They say any press is good press, but based on this thread, it resulted in a serious disapproval of Bells.
 
edroberts said:
As I mentioned several months ago, craft beer has grown large enough that the "let's all play nice" game is over. Protecting slogans, trademarks, labels all are an effort to protect that brewer's identity and intellectual property. This kind of junk is non-stop in other businesses.
Click to expand...

This +100
The evidence in this is the beer cooler at your local grocery store. Its now 75% filled with craft beer.
This cutthroat stuff will only get worse until the craft beer bubble bursts, or the smaller fish in the craft beer industry toss in the towel and the top tier craft breweries become much like the beer companies they rose up to compete with(AB/Coors).

Its also this behavior that reminds me why this is only a hobby and I would never want it to become an income revenue stream/business for me..It would stop being fun at that point.
 
there's a whole lot of self righteousness going on in this thread...

some of the top searches on this site are for solsun (oberon), two hearted, expedition stout, the list goes on. why? because bell's makes awesome beer. mr. bell has done a tremendous amount for the brewing community and built an incredible brand, not to mention everything bell's does locally and for the state of Michigan.

just have fun brewing what you want and drinking what you like and leave the politics to politicians.
 
ColoHox said:
This stuff happens all the time. Way more often than we realize. And it is the breweries with money to spend on legal hitting the breweries that cant afford to defend themselves.

Sweetwater brewing and 420 comes to mind. Around here, 2 startup breweries had to change their name (after operating for <1 year) because of cease and desist orders from other breweries. New Belgium said that they are considering unearthing an ancient language to name their beers without copyright infringement.

Collaboration not Litigation ale is a great example of brewers with the same goals working together. Collaboration provides positive exposure for everyone. They say any press is good press, but based on this thread, it resulted in a serious disapproval of Bells.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think I read more news articles about trademark laws than anything else when it comes to breweries. It gets pretty tricky...I wish that article would have gone on to explain Bell's point of view instead of just making it look like a David vs. Goliath scenario...like maybe if Innovation filed for trademark they could enter a dispute with Bell's who shows prior use of the name but no formal trademark...then Bell's ends up having to get rid of any stickers or t-shirts that have the phrase on it...etc...so Bell's sees this and preempts by filing suit first...

I'm not a lawyer and I don't know Mr. Bell or anything but I don't see the reason for Bell's or any other craft brewer throwing money away on a lawsuit unless there's a real reason behind it.
 
olotti said:
Larry bell is a total ****** bag from what I hear from friends and family in the industry. This makes total sense coming from him.
Click to expand...


Excuse me, he's apparently an Innovative ****** Bag!
Not to
Be confused w/ just an ordinary, everyday, ****** Bag, or used ******!
 
Awesome!

Maybe once all of you are done with your little tirade Bells will expand their distribution to smaller markets to regain lost revenue.

Keep it up!
 

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