Belgium saison...what's it supposed to taste like?

[Jayjay1976]

Check out Kveik yeast for good attenuation and fast fermentation at higher temps (up to 95f I've read!) with clean flavor. Its also not diastaticus so no fear of cross-batch contamination.

 

[sicktght311]

Used Belle Saison yeast for Tettnanger Hop based Saison i did a while back. Came out great. Had that solid "effervescent" yeasty Saison taste that i was hoping for. I would definitely use Belle again. Next time gonna try some Orange Peel in there as well

 

[shoreman]

Good place to start for any beer "style" http://www.bjcp.org/style/2015/25/25B/saison/

 

[bucketnative]

I chose 70 (maybe it was 68) because I was gone for a month while it did it's thing and figured it would maybe go bad if I left it up in the 80s until I returned. I don't think it's infected. It looked fine when I kegged it. I was just expecting more hops and less tart I guess. I have no reference point from which to judge a saison.

I use this yeast quite a bit, and it definitely does fine above 80, even for extended periods of time. I have done many batches in my basement (ambient ~80 °F) for a month or so.

One thing that I have found is that the yeast seems to be more expressive when re-pitched from a slurry on the second or third generation. I am not sure if anyone else has noticed that, but I get my best results on re-pitches.

 

[Miraculix]

I use this yeast quite a bit, and it definitely does fine above 80, even for extended periods of time. I have done many batches in my basement (ambient ~80 °F) for a month or so.

One thing that I have found is that the yeast seems to be more expressive when re-pitched from a slurry on the second or third generation. I am not sure if anyone else has noticed that, but I get my best results on re-pitches.

This is something I read all over the itnernet again and again. Looks like this yeast is still recovering from being dried for the first few batches and needs its time to fully shine.

 

[sicktght311]

This is something I read all over the itnernet again and again. Looks like this yeast is still recovering from being dried for the first few batches and needs its time to fully shine.

Wonder if it would make sense to pick up a packet of Belle, do a small 1Liter starter, separate it into mason jars, and then do secondary starters off those for future brews. Makes it 2nd-3rd generation of the yeast (albeit from a clean 24-36 hour starter instead of full primary fermentation), and obviously benefit of having extra yeast now stockpiled.

This is what i do with most of my liquid yeasts. I build a 2liter starter off a smack pack, and then store it away in equal sized 100-125b cell slurries, and then build each brew's pitch off those

 

[Jayjay1976]

Wonder if it would make sense to pick up a packet of Belle, do a small 1Liter starter, separate it into mason jars, and then do secondary starters off those for future brews. Makes it 2nd-3rd generation of the yeast (albeit from a clean 24-36 hour starter instead of full primary fermentation), and obviously benefit of having extra yeast now stockpiled.

This is what i do with most of my liquid yeasts. I build a 2liter starter off a smack pack, and then store it away in equal sized 100-125b cell slurries, and then build each brew's pitch off those

Sounds like a solid plan!

 

[odie]

Well I did harvest the yeast on this one...not sure it will be viable in a few months/year. I don't think I will try this style again until maybe next spring/summer.

The packet did feel pretty tight so I don't think it had been compromised.

 

[Miraculix]

Wonder if it would make sense to pick up a packet of Belle, do a small 1Liter starter, separate it into mason jars, and then do secondary starters off those for future brews. Makes it 2nd-3rd generation of the yeast (albeit from a clean 24-36 hour starter instead of full primary fermentation), and obviously benefit of having extra yeast now stockpiled.

This is what i do with most of my liquid yeasts. I build a 2liter starter off a smack pack, and then store it away in equal sized 100-125b cell slurries, and then build each brew's pitch off those

Man, if you could do this with a split batch, one with a 4th generation starter and one directly from the package, you would be my hero.

 

[odie]

Ok the yeast is 10/2019 exp. brewed in late August. Drinking it as I type. Acquired taste

 

[Jayjay1976]

I was just enjoying an imperial russian stout I'd brewed last august, it was exquizze....

 

[odie]

As soon as I collect all my nitro pieces I’ll be tapping my maple RIS. Brewed in February

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I recently used Omega's Saisonstein Monster and it produced a fantastic dry hopped saison!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/omega-saisonsteins-monster-oyl-500-yeast-anyone.664206/

This strain allows you to ferment at lower temperatures than the dupont stain

I mashed low @ 148 degrees for 90 min
I pitched the yeast @ 68, then let it rise naturally to 72 for first 48 hours, then let it rise naturally up to 78 for the rest of the duration in the primary (two weeks total)

I yielded 96% attenuation! OG = 1.057, FG = 1.002!!!

This is honestly the best beer I've ever brewed. Am blown away by this yeast especially with the hop combination I used. This works very well for a hoppy version of the style.

It took a few weeks after kegging to get a traditional saison character. The first few weeks there were some bubblegum esters, but those went away after 3 weeks. The beer then tasted remarkably like a dupont. Couldn't beleive how close the profile was especially with the ease of use on this strain compared to dupont's yeast.

Here's the recipe. I also made a massive starter: 400 Billon Cells per 5 gallons

Keep in mind this a 10 gallon batch, so you would want to cut the recipe in half.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sunshine Rainbowbeam

All Grain Recipe

Batch Size: 12 gal Style: Saison (25B)
Color: 3.9 SRM
Bitterness: 28.0 IBUs Boil Time: 90 min
OG: 1.057 Mash Profile: Mash @ 148.5 for 90 min
FG: 1.002 SG
ABV: 7.3%


Ingredients
Amount Name Type #
19.63 gal New York, NY Water 1
7.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90 min) Misc 2
1.50 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 90 min) Misc 3

26 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 4
2 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 5
1 lbs Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 6

7.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Boil 90 min) Misc 8
1.50 g Calcium Chloride (Boil 90 min) Misc 9
1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15 min) Misc 10

1.00 oz Magnum [12.0%] - Boil 60 min Hops 7

5.00 oz Motueka [7.0%] - Flame out
3.00 oz Belma [9.8%] - Flame out

2 pkgs Saisonstein’s Monster (Omega #OYL-500) Yeast 13

5.00 oz Motueka [7.0%] - Dry Hop 0 days Hops 14
3.00 oz Belma [9.8%] - Dry Hop 0 days Hops 15


Notes
Mash in @ 148.5 for 90 min

FERMENTATION SCHEDULE: Day 1-4: Pitch at 69. Set freezer to 72+1 for initial fermentation (if fermentation slows...let free rise up to 75) let free rise to 78 after initial ferment complete dry hop after two weeks

 

[odie]

Ok...this thing I made is growing on me...
Kicking back with it while making a slightly scaled back Newcastle that’s gonna get 2# of honey post krausen

 

[tennesseean_87]

Instead, you could add a little glucoamylase to your mash, and wort!
One of our club's brewers has been doing that to all his beers now, since he brewed a Brut last year. Surprisingly none are overly dry, actually.

Speaking of Diastaticus, WY3711 is allegedly known for digesting fermenters, if left to it.

I made my first Saisons with 3711 because of its reputation for attenuating despite low temps--I didn't have precise control yet. I've also made session beers with it mashing at 160, using munich, amber malt, and special B which finished at 1.004. Also, BelgIAN [] Imperial Stout that also finished that low. I've found Belle to behave similarly in all these respects, and recognize a certain tartness sometimes.

I agree that Dupont (3724?) has a better flavor profile, but many say it will stall at 1.030 if you don't ramp temp up toward the end of fermentation. I've only used it since getting my temp control set up, so no issues with that personally. Alternatively, as mentioned before, you can use Dupont and then add a little Belle or 3711 to make sure it finishes, which it will.

Now I want to brew a Saison! I was thinking of possibly doing a Dubbel, but maybe a Saison instead. I have a smidge of D-180, and a full pouch of D-90, so maybe a dark Saison for the winter. hmm...

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I made my first Saisons with 3711 because of its reputation for attenuating despite low temps--I didn't have precise control yet. I've also made session beers with it mashing at 160, using munich, amber malt, and special B which finished at 1.004. Also, BelgIAN [] Imperial Stout that also finished that low. I've found Belle to behave similarly in all these respects, and recognize a certain tartness sometimes.

I agree that Dupont (3724?) has a better flavor profile, but many say it will stall at 1.030 if you don't ramp temp up toward the end of fermentation. I've only used it since getting my temp control set up, so no issues with that personally. Alternatively, as mentioned before, you can use Dupont and then add a little Belle or 3711 to make sure it finishes, which it will.

Now I want to brew a Saison! I was thinking of possibly doing a Dubbel, but maybe a Saison instead. I have a smidge of D-180, and a full pouch of D-90, so maybe a dark Saison for the winter. hmm...

Use the omega saisonstein... Its a hybrid of the two. Tastes like dupont and ferment s like belle

 

[tennesseean_87]

I've got 3724 on hand (I think) and I have temp control, so it's as easy as pushing a button.

Thanks for that tip, though!