Bay Area Thread

[jtmartino1]

Well, sure, but saying "space is not the issue" is kind of crazy. There's a reason all these breweries start in random warehouses in suburbs or run-down districts. They need way more space and in a city like SF it's expensive! The only breweries there are either old or well capitalized for various reasons.

Also, of course there's going to be way more good food than good [insert kind of booze here]. People need to eat every day. They don't ever need to drink. One brewery can supply thousands of people's beer needs per day, one restaurant can't. There's more infrastructure around making food because of that.

To me, that is an even better reason why only great breweries should exist. Competition for space and less demand than food. Mediocre breweries shouldn't be able to afford to exist.

There are other things at play here, but with the growth in the market, you'd think there would be better breweries popping up in Dogpatch or San Leandro or wherever.

But clearly that's not the case. And it's probably because consumers, as a whole, have lower standards for beer than food.

 

[Wino1]

Why is Temescal in that list? They make killer IPAs, hell I'd say even better than Fieldwork's.

Speaking of Temescal, any idea which shops in SF get their can distro?

 

[rrryanc]

Why is Temescal in that list? They make killer IPAs, hell I'd say even better than Fieldwork's.

Speaking of Temescal, any idea which shops in SF get their can distro?

I haven't had anything of theirs in a while, in a large part because I haven't seen anything from them in a long while, but they were firmly in the meh category the several times I tried their stuff in the past. I don't love a lot of what fieldwork does, but they're still better by far than anything I've had from temescal.

 

[Wino1]

I haven't had anything of theirs in a while, in a large part because I haven't seen anything from them in a long while, but they were firmly in the meh category the several times I tried their stuff in the past. I don't love a lot of what fieldwork does, but they're still better by far than anything I've had from temescal.

Temescal just released Staycation. Definitely seek it out, it's awesome. My girlfriend described it as "it tastes like summer" and she is spot on with that IMO.

 

[rrryanc]

Temescal just released Staycation. Definitely seek it out, it's awesome. My girlfriend described it as "it tastes like summer" and she is spot on with that IMO.

I'll see if I come across it. Basically easier for me to get to Sante from the peninsula than the east bay.

 

[tosh1]

Not getting hatred for Drakes. Solid brewer, nothing mind blowing, but everything is above drinkable.

And compared to the **** they put out 15 years ago they are doing okay I reckon. .

 

[rrryanc]

Not getting hatred for Drakes. Solid brewer, nothing mind blowing, but everything is above drinkable.

And compared to the **** they put out 15 years ago they are doing okay I reckon. .

I don't hate Drakes, but they're near a whole lot of nothing and as you said, nothing they make is mind blowing. Just kinda boring, in a good way.

 

[tosh1]

I don't hate Drakes, but they're near a whole lot of nothing and as you said, nothing they make is mind blowing. Just kinda boring, in a good way.

Nearest brewey to my house. Also one of first 6 packs I bought in US.

Now back in 2002 Drakes sucked. **** , they really did.

 

[jedwards]

I won't hear this implied slander of Headzo.

 

[Vinylfiend1]

Interesting debate , I agree that the good to great breweries are too far apart in the Bay and even the best ones have consistency issues. Sac might have the better scene right now unfortunately imo.

 

[stupac2]

To me, that is an even better reason why only great breweries should exist. Competition for space and less demand than food. Mediocre breweries shouldn't be able to afford to exist.

There are other things at play here, but with the growth in the market, you'd think there would be better breweries popping up in Dogpatch or San Leandro or wherever.

But clearly that's not the case. And it's probably because consumers, as a whole, have lower standards for beer than food.

Well, no, there's a lot of really ****** food out there too. The real problem is that the median consumer of [whatever] has no sense of taste. That's where there's so much ****** [whatever] out there. The difference is with things like media or food there's a lot more demand, so while there's a fuckton of ****** TV or movies or restaurants there's also a very large number of good ones. With beer there hasn't been that much demand historically, and as it's picked up the market has been so underserved that mediocre **** can shine. But we're finally correcting some of this out, see Pacific Coast closing after 29 utterly forgettable years.

So yeah, maybe the curve with beer is somewhat more tilted toward mediocre than with other things, but I think you're just forgetting the 30 ****** restaurants you walk past on your way to Saison.

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

Why is Temescal in that list? They make killer IPAs, hell I'd say even better than Fieldwork's.

Speaking of Temescal, any idea which shops in SF get their can distro?

They made my list as a eh-meh brewery. They set out to do something relatively easy (make drinkable/non cutting edge beers) and they do a solid but unmemorable job. Again, just my opinion, but they're the definition of mediocre to me. I see no reason to go there other than looking for a spot that's fun to hang out in. Otherwise I'd just go pick up better beer at the local safeway.

Not saying they're they're bad, but they hit singles.

FW is probably the best brewery in the immediate bay area, they offer a wide range of beers, some innovative stuff, pastry stouts, sours. Something for everyone, and they occasionally hit one out of the park.

 

[stupac2]

TOtherwise I'd just go pick up better beer at the local safeway.

You are officially crazy. The only Safeway I've been to in this area that has a chance of having better beer is the one way up on College, and even then you're like "maybe they have some modem tones?" if you can stomach that brewery being run by ********. My local Safeway has, like, Lagunitas IPA. Temescal clears that bar easily.

Also pretty much everything (except pastry stouts) you said about FW applies to Temescal. Cray cray.

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

You are officially crazy. The only Safeway I've been to in this area that has a chance of having better beer is the one way up on College, and even then you're like "maybe they have some modem tones?" if you can stomach that brewery being run by ********. My local Safeway has, like, Lagunitas IPA. Temescal clears that bar easily.

Also pretty much everything (except pastry stouts) you said about FW applies to Temescal. Cray cray.

Alright.

Maybe we should do a city by city comparison? Breweries in cities across the US and compare to the Bay Area, would that help?

 

[Wino1]

They made my list as a eh-meh brewery. They set out to do something relatively easy (make drinkable/non cutting edge beers) and they do a solid but unmemorable job. Again, just my opinion, but they're the definition of mediocre to me. I see no reason to go there other than looking for a spot that's fun to hang out in. Otherwise I'd just go pick up better beer at the local safeway.

Not saying they're they're bad, but they hit singles.

FW is probably the best brewery in the immediate bay area, they offer a wide range of beers, some innovative stuff, pastry stouts, sours. Something for everyone, and they occasionally hit one out of the park.

When was the last time you had something by them? Again, I'd recommend checking them out again. They definitely do have some meh beers, but then again, what brewery doesn't?

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

When was the last time you had something by them? Again, I'd recommend checking them out again. They definitely do have some meh beers, but then again, what brewery doesn't?

Maybe 6 weeks ago or so. I mean I like their beers ok, but nothing that screams wow, this is a stud beer! Unoffensive, not memorable beer. Sounds like others disagree, that's cool.

My take on that is bay area ppl REALLY want a great brewery to get behind that even a solid one gets put on a pedestal. For Example, within 20 min of my mom's house in ******* Berea Ohio there is:

Brew Kettle
Fat's Heads (2 locations, brewery and the restaurant location)
Great Lakes
Market Gardens
Platform

All of which I would rank at CellarMaker level or better. I'm assuming most of the homers here will disagree, but point remains that the bar in the bay area is very low.

However, my point probably isn't very productive, I like CM, I like FW, I like RB. Praise the bay.

 

[brokensail1]

Lumping Drakes and Temescal in with the likes of Ale Industries and Alameda Island...that's just wrong.

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

Lumping Drakes and Temescal in with the likes of Ale Industries and Alameda Island...that's just wrong.

Fair, but in general if my options are Drakes/Temescal/AI/AI my decision is the same. I'll just go sober unless I'm in a large group who need a place to hang out.

 

[matedog]

Maybe 6 weeks ago or so. I mean I like their beers ok, but nothing that screams wow, this is a stud beer! Unoffensive, not memorable beer. Sounds like others disagree, that's cool.

My take on that is bay area ppl REALLY want a great brewery to get behind that even a solid one gets put on a pedestal. For Example, within 20 min of my mom's house in ******* Berea Ohio there is:

Brew Kettle
Fat's Heads (2 locations, brewery and the restaurant location)
Great Lakes
Market Gardens
Platform

All of which I would rank at CellarMaker level or better. I'm assuming most of the homers here will disagree, but point remains that the bar in the bay area is very low.

However, my point probably isn't very productive, I like CM, I like FW, I like RB. Praise the bay.

Eh, I haven't had a ton of Great Lakes, but aren't they akin to Drake's? Middle of the road with broad distro and some interesting stuff if you actually go to the brewery?

 

[stupac2]

Eh, I haven't had a ton of Great Lakes, but aren't they akin to Drake's? Middle of the road with broad distro and some interesting stuff if you actually go to the brewery?

Yeah, I continue to think CoA is just bonkers here. Great Lakes makes a bunch of solid examples of unexiting styles. Kind of like, oh, I dunno, Temescal? (I'd certainly rate Temescal's Porter over Edmund Fitzgerald.) I've also never been impressed by Fat heads and haven't even heard of the other ones. Maybe they're pretty okay but I'd be really surprised if they were even at Fieldwork level.

CoA, have you considered that maybe we're not homers, but you're just a hater?

 

[rrryanc]

Maybe 6 weeks ago or so. I mean I like their beers ok, but nothing that screams wow, this is a stud beer! Unoffensive, not memorable beer. Sounds like others disagree, that's cool.

My take on that is bay area ppl REALLY want a great brewery to get behind that even a solid one gets put on a pedestal. For Example, within 20 min of my mom's house in ******* Berea Ohio there is:

Brew Kettle
Fat's Heads (2 locations, brewery and the restaurant location)
Great Lakes
Market Gardens
Platform

All of which I would rank at CellarMaker level or better. I'm assuming most of the homers here will disagree, but point remains that the bar in the bay area is very low.

However, my point probably isn't very productive, I like CM, I like FW, I like RB. Praise the bay.

FW is Firestone Walker, which isn't quite the bay area. I know you mean fieldwork, but either spell it out or find a new acronym.

I'm basically a local hater and I think you definitely have a point when it comes to east bay breweries and people desperately hoping something sticks (still better than the peninsula, where I can't even hands those delusions). But you're totally being a homer when it comes to Ohio. None of those breweries are really even close to the Cellarmaker/Sante/Russian River level.

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

Yeah, I continue to think CoA is just bonkers here. Great Lakes makes a bunch of solid examples of unexiting styles. Kind of like, oh, I dunno, Temescal? (I'd certainly rate Temescal's Porter over Edmund Fitzgerald.) I've also never been impressed by Fat heads and haven't even heard of the other ones. Maybe they're pretty okay but I'd be really surprised if they were even at Fieldwork level.

CoA, have you considered that maybe we're not homers, but you're just a hater?

No, that's illogical.

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

Eh, I haven't had a ton of Great Lakes, but aren't they akin to Drake's? Middle of the road with broad distro and some interesting stuff if you actually go to the brewery?

Sort of, but they have some great seasonals like

Lake Erie Monster
Nosferatu
Chill Wave
Oktoberfest
Black Out

Their Christmas Ale is the industry standard (say what you want about Christmas Ales, but can Drakes be consider even top 250 in any style?) Their Porter is world renowned, even more so than the Deschutes porter (which is solid). They offer far more variety, and seasonal releases at a much more affordable price than Drakes.

In closing, I'd say it's not close, but that is just me. And I'm not even trying to front like Great Lakes is a top tier brewery, they're not. Just better than any option in the bay area (again not counting SARA, RR, Lagunitas, etc...)

 

[pen15clubmember]

Yeah, I continue to think CoA is just bonkers here. Great Lakes makes a bunch of solid examples of unexiting styles. Kind of like, oh, I dunno, Temescal? (I'd certainly rate Temescal's Porter over Edmund Fitzgerald.) I've also never been impressed by Fat heads and haven't even heard of the other ones. Maybe they're pretty okay but I'd be really surprised if they were even at Fieldwork level.

CoA, have you considered that maybe we're not homers, but you're just a hater?

Ohio homer is more like it. Fatheads is cool, but I would definitely put it below CM and Fieldwork(s). I do have a fondness for Great Lakes and have enjoyed a few IPAs from Brew Kettle. Honestly, I think we're pretty even in terms of quality with the C Town area.

From where I've visited multiple times or lived:
Better

• SD
• Portland
• Sac (only if you count Auburn)
• Denver (only if you branch out to like Ft Collins)
• Chicago maybe?
• NYC but just barely and it was bad there just a few years ago, too

Worse

• Philly (Tired Hands then a bunch of scrubs unless you count all the way out to Easton and Downingtown, but those are both like an hour from the city)
  
• Cincy
• Baltimore
• DC

 

[Xul1]

FW is Firestone Walker, which isn't quite the bay area. I know you mean fieldwork, but either spell it out or find a new acronym.

Use a silly mixed case abbreviation like SoHo...FiWo or something. FW is 100% Firestone Walker.

Or just spell out "Fieldwork," since saving those five keystrokes in typing "FiWo" would make you look like a massive toolbag...

 

[brokensail1]

So you complain about Temescal making good beers that don't get you excited, but then talk up Great Lakes' Christmas Ale? C'mon, man...

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

So you complain about Temescal making good beers that don't get you excited, but then talk up Great Lakes' Christmas Ale? C'mon, man...

No I don't, I even through in a caveat. C'mon man yourself.

As for Temsecal I complain about them making mediocre boring beers, not good beers.

 

[Wino1]

No I don't, I even through in a caveat. C'mon man yourself.

As for Temsecal I complain about them making mediocre boring beers, not good beers.

This beer is literally climaxing. How can you call that mediocre?!

 

[stupac2]

No I don't, I even through in a caveat. C'mon man yourself.

As for Temsecal I complain about them making mediocre boring beers, not good beers.

I assume he missed a "not".

Also, a thing to remember is that even what we think of as "world-class" breweries make plenty of forgettable beers, but as non-locals you just don't see them as often. I also think the trend of having a portfolio of a gazillion beers makes it harder to separate the wheat from the chaff, like I know that Temescal/Fieldwork/Alvarado have made some world-class IPAs, but unlike RR you can't get them every time you go there, you have to settle for whatever random thing they decided to do this time.

 

[Wino1]

I assume he missed a "not".

Also, a thing to remember is that even what we think of as "world-class" breweries make plenty of forgettable beers, but as non-locals you just don't see them as often. I also think the trend of having a portfolio of a gazillion beers makes it harder to separate the wheat from the chaff, like I know that Temescal/Fieldwork/Alvarado have made some world-class IPAs, but unlike RR you can't get them every time you go there, you have to settle for whatever random thing they decided to do this time.

Definitely true for Cellarmaker as well, if not more pronounced. They experiment so much I'd say 60-70% of their board on average is kinda meh. But considering that board completely changes once every 2 weeks, the total amount of 'holy ****' beers they come out with annually is astounding.