Bass and Whitbread: Bitters?

[elf_brewery]

Doesn't ring a bell with me. Both bitter beer and pale ale are/can be cask beers. I use the term "beer" to include ales, but not lagers. Just a hangover from the '80's.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I'd probably disagree with this here; wheat, either in torrefied or malted form, is very much an acceptable (and IMO desirable) element of a bitter grist, at quantities under 5%, for both head retention and body.

The wider "English bitter" base recipe of specifically British pale malt, specifically British crystal malts (though I would say "up to 7%"), a British yeast and Fuggle/EKG is broadly on the money.


-Edit: speeling

I certainly won't argue that point. You are, after all, 100% correct.

With that said, I cannot say that I've found that torrified wheat really makes much of a difference. I used to use it religiously, but it became a victim of my campaign to rationalize the grains that I keep stocked. I actually wanted to keep it because I believed that it did something, but a couple years of trial and error left me with the disappointing realization that it didn't do much in my brewery. If it's doing good stuff for you, who am I to say it doesn't?

I'd buy into "up to 7%," I'll sometimes do that in the dead of winter when I want a bit more substance in my January and February bitters.

 

[HM-2]

I always keep both malted wheat and torrefied on hand for my hazy IPAs and hefes, so a handful of grammes into a bitter grist doesn't require me stocking things I'd never otherwise use.

I keep meaning to experiment with a small (2-3%) quantity of Golden Naked Oats in a bitter/pale, in lieu of the small amount of wheat I use, to see if they have a desirable effect.


I currently have on tap an English pale that's 7% CaraMalt in lieu of my usual Simpson's T50/Extra Light Crystal and I have to say it's really enjoyable. 88% Warminster floor malted MO, 7% CaraMalt and 5% Torrefied wheat. Hopped with UK Cascade and CF184, my only change for the next batch is going to be a small (ounce or so) keg hop.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I always keep both malted wheat and torrefied on hand for my hazy IPAs and hefes, so a handful of grammes into a bitter grist doesn't require me stocking things I'd never otherwise use.

I keep meaning to experiment with a small (2-3%) quantity of Golden Naked Oats in a bitter/pale, in lieu of the small amount of wheat I use, to see if they have a desirable effect.


I currently have on tap an English pale that's 7% CaraMalt in lieu of my usual Simpson's T50/Extra Light Crystal and I have to say it's really enjoyable. 88% Warminster floor malted MO, 7% CaraMalt and 5% Torrefied wheat. Hopped with UK Cascade and CF184, my only change for the next batch is going to be a small (ounce or so) keg hop.

Give the Golden Naked Oats a shot. I took them in as my yearly experimental malt a few years ago and I'm still playing with them.

I gave them a fair shot in my bitters and milds, then moved on. But they're gaining traction in my Northern Brown. I currently think that they add a bit of nuttiness at ~5-10%, but LHBS issues has seen me juggling between Crisp and Warminster over the past two brewing seasons, so I'm not willing to sign on to that belief just yet. I think that may be the case, but I can't say that I know that just yet.

 

[Brewsmith]

More reading related to all the above from Brewers Publications

Pale Ale by Terry Foster
https://www.brewerspublications.com...istory-brewing-techniques-recipes-2nd-edition

Mild Ale by David Sutula
https://www.brewerspublications.com...s/mild-ale-history-brewing-techniques-recipes

Like most things in brewing, the answer depends on when in history you want your answer. Naming was much more flexible and only recently have we put more rigid boxes and style guidelines around beers.

 

[An Ankoù]

As far as I can tell, in the UK, all pale ales are "bitters." It also seems to be a terminology difference. Like I mentioned above, originally the breweries called them "pale ales" but the patrons called them "bitters" and you can find both "pale ales" and "bitters" used interchangeably in the names of beers. Apparently this term was created to contrast with "milds" (which is the term used by both the breweries and the patrons).

I personally had thought that bitters were a subset of pale ales, and if you look up all these "bitters" on American beer websites, you'll usually see them listed as "English Pale Ale." So it's actually bitter = pale ale and pale ale = bitter.

You re pretty much on the money, here. We don't make a distinction between bitter and strong bitter. A best bitter might be a couple of tenths of a percent abv more than the bitter and, traditionally, cost a penny or two more. All the distinctions that are confusing you are due to your bjpc guidelines. These are totally unknown in the UK and (no offense) we don't want to know as they're a tool for judging competitions in the US, s far as I can see. A bitter from Yorkshire will be entirely different from a bitter from Dorset and we expect local drinks if the same category name to taste different. They're also served differently. Bass and Whitbread both make (used to make) bitter. They're quite different.

Traditionally you'd rarely, if ever find a bottled bitter. When a brewery bottles it's bitter it's sold as pale ale (or so I understand, but I won't insist on it).

 

[mac_1103]

When a brewery bottles it's bitter it's sold as pale ale (or so I understand, but I won't insist on it).

Fuller's ESB doesn't actually have the word "bitter" on the label, but it doesn't say "pale ale" either (last time I saw one anyway). I believe that Young's says "bitter" on the bottle, but maybe that's only for export?

 

[Miraculix]

I've just had a bottle of Timothy Taylor the other day, the darkest "pale" ale i have ever had .

Still, it's written on the label. I'd call it a bitter. The Fuller's is called "Amber" ale... I'd also call that one a bitter.

 

[An Ankoù]

Fuller's ESB doesn't actually have the word "bitter" on the label, but it doesn't say "pal ale" either (last time I saw one anyway). I believe that Young's says "bitter" on the bottle, but maybe that's only for export?

I've just had a bottle of Timothy Taylor the other day, the darkest "pale" ale i have ever had .

Still, it's written on the label. I'd call it a bitter. The Fuller's is called "Amber" ale... I'd also call that one a bitter.

I see your point(s) and you're right. My recollections were from the 60s and 70s of an earlier century. "Amber Ale" is a new thing. Fuller's ESB was first touted in 1971 and it certainly wasn't called Amber Ale- this is a modern marketing gimmick. Fullers had Chiswick Bitter at 3.4%, their London Pride at 4.1%, which was their Best Bitter and the ESB really was extra special n the day, being well over-strength for a session beer.
My recollection is that Chiswick was weak and watery, but not unpleasant, Pride was overrated in the same way that Marstons Pedigree was overrated, and ESB was magnificent, but led to a very meandering walk home and a thumping headache the next morning.
In those heady days, beer was beer. It wasn't the strength that mattered, but how many pints you had.

For the record, my favourite was Gales HSB.

And then came Summer Lightning and the world changed.

 

[Miraculix]

I see your point(s) and you're right. My recollections were from the 60s and 70s of an earlier century. "Amber Ale" is a new thing. Fuller's ESB was first touted in 1971 and it certainly wasn't called Amber Ale- this is a modern marketing gimmick. Fullers had Chiswick Bitter at 3.4%, their London Pride at 4.1%, which was their Best Bitter and the ESB really was extra special n the day, being well over-strength for a session beer.
My recollection is that Chiswick was weak and watery, but not unpleasant, Pride was overrated in the same way that Marstons Pedigree was overrated, and ESB was magnificent, but led to a very meandering walk home and a thumping headache the next morning.
In those heady days, beer was beer. It wasn't the strength that mattered, but how many pints you had.

For the record, my favourite was Gales HSB.

And then came Summer Lightning and the world changed.

The good thing is, I can drink them no matter what it's called .

Regarding Fuller's amber, that's waaaayyyyy better from tap. Also different strength from tap. I don't like the bottled version that much but the tap version is magnificent.

 

[DuncB]

I think there's a vogue for renaming Bitter to Amber ale.

Spitfire is now an Amber ale, I always thought of it as a bitter until recently.

One of the best advertising campaigns for a beer though.

 

[bwible]

Years ago they were called English Pale Ale and there was a BJCP category called English Pale Ale. Somewhere along the way BJCP lumped everything into bitter and strong bitter.

*slaps hands on the bar

“Hey there mr. Bartender - lemme have one of those strong bitter thingies”

 

[Miraculix]

Years ago they were called English Pale Ale and there was a BJCP category called English Pale Ale. Somewhere along the way BJCP lumped everything into bitter and strong bitter.

*slaps hands on the bar

“Hey there mr. Bartender - lemme have one of those strong bitter thingies”

"Let them bitteringies come!"