Barleywine questions

Williams 728
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Okay so I used Recipator to run some numbers and I came up with the following:

finished volume: 2.75 (times 2)
FG 1.030

Sparge: 2.5 gallons
boil volume: 5.25 gallons

Grain bill:
11 lbs British Pale
.5 lbs Crystal

1.5 oz east kent golding at 45 mins

The end result with 70% efficiency should be:

OG1.111
ABV: 10.4%
47 IBU

So what do you think? Incredibly simple recipe, keeping it true to the style. So how long do you think it would take to boil off 2.5 gallons? I got all day, and it sounds like it might take all day.
 
Hey, sorry my man... life is pretty busy right now, but I've been meaning to check up on this thread.

2.5 gallons takes me about 2 and a half hours with my blichmann floor burner. Not sure about your system, though. about a gallon an hour is about normal, from what I've experienced.

As I understand it, you have two batches at 5.25 gallons preboil.
My math says that is a total volume of 10.5 gallons combined. If you boil off 2.5 gallons you still have 8 gallons remaining.

I suppose I just don't understand the numbers right now. I'm heading into engineering finals week, so I'm pretty blasted or I'd take the time to crunch some out myself.

On second thought, I'll see what I can come up with. I'll pretend I have your efficiency and everything.

Shooting for about a lb of caramel? good work. Also, the british pale is exactly what I used. Something called crisp, I believe.
Good work limiting the hops to a reasonable amount. a lb of hops really killed me.

I'll get back to ya about what I figure out.
 
Okay, I ran some fast numbers. I used 100 GUs for your final gravity. The following recipe is for one half of the brew. You brew this beer twice to get the volume you want.

0.53 lbs Crystal/Caramel

9.43 lbs 2 row

3.75 gallons mash water
2.25 gallons sparge water

Boil for 2 hours

Post boil volume: 2.5 gallons

Of course you're going to have losses, so perhaps I should calculate a half gallon more than that per batch.
That kinda gives you a ball park, I hope
 
Yes I have my post boil volume set at 2.75 so that when I combine the 2 I will have 5.5 gallons.

Good luck on finals! You seem quite advanced in home brewing for a college kid. Only thing I ever made in college was wine using Welch's grape juice. It didn't taste the best but it worked!
 
When considering your recipe and how to get the efficiency you desire, consider a longer than normal boil. On my barleywine's, I just plan on sparging until my runnings are around 1.015. The shortest boil I've ever done in a BW was 2.5 hours. The longest was just shy of 4. I'm a big fan of epic boils for BW's. I know it helps with efficiency and I think it helps to caramelize the flavors a bit. I also always add a pound of plain old sugar just to help dry it out a bit. I shoot for about a mid 20's FG (1.022-1.028).

If you do a long boil, keep track of your boil off rate so you can determine on the fly when to start your "60 minute countdown". That way you can still keep on track with your hops.
 
Good til on the timing ajwillys . To tell you the truth I have never done such an exact recipe. I always just do the best I can and it always turns out decent (nit always great, but decent). There is a lot more to pay attention to this go round.
 
Just my $0.02, but if I where in your shoes, I'd do the two seperate mashes since you can't fit it all in you MT, but combine the runnings from both before the boil. I don't think there'd be any harm done to the runnings from mash 1 waiting for the runnings from mash 2 before boiling.

Or, you could even start boiling the runnings from mash 1 while your mashing your 2nd time. That'd get your boil off started. Then just stop the boil and collect the runnings from mash 2 in your kettle, and resume boiling again.
 
Haha, thanks Metalman2004. I'm actually 28 and going back to school for another degree after the first one didn't work out. I do love this hobby though. The other most recent posters have some cool advice. The epic boil does sound fun and a great way to burn propane up.

Question to ajwillys: is over sparging a thing? and should anyone be concerned about it?
 
DSorenson said:
Question to ajwillys: is over sparging a thing? and should anyone be concerned about it?
Click to expand...

Yes, it definitely is a thing. The rule I go by is that I sparge until the runnings coming out are at 1.015 gravity. Often times with BW, I get way more wort than I want before I get to this level.

I also agree with the poster about two mashes. I've done it and it works fine. Just go ahead and start lightly boiling the first while you do the second. Wait to start your 60 minute timer until you've boiled off a pre-determined amount (based on boil off rate). If you have a buddy with an MLT that works too.
 
Just had a sample of my barleywine at 4 weeks and I have to say I am already in love with it. I am very glad I didn't use more than a pound of caramel. It's there in just the right quantity. I am excited! The yeast is attenuated at 1.024 and the residual sugars are a nice touch
 
Yes, congrats on the barley wine! Also, hope the finals went well! That is something I definitely don't miss.

So it seems like the consensus is that 2 equal 2.75 gallon batches will be fine. The devil is in the details though which brings me to another question. I currently have only 1 6 gallon pot and multiple smaller pots. That means only 1 batch can boil at a time unless I buy another pot. So what do you guys think would happen if I did one batch to completion, put it in the fermenter and then did the second batch? Obviously each batch takes a long time (don't worry I have plenty of that) so the first batch would be sitting in the fermenter for several hours before the 2nd batch is added.

The alternative is a just buy a 2nd large pot.
 
I don't see a problem with that. I just think it will be more work. If you can, get a bigger pot, you won't be sorry. Otherwise you can do it as two separate ferments and combine later.

Also, technically my BW isn't finished yet. It's still in primary. It's just really good already.

also, finals didn't go as well as I wanted, but I still got a 4.0!
 
Well if your GPA is perfect, I don't see how they could have gone any better!

I am enjoying an Old Ruffian barley wine tonight by Great Divide and my mind is blown by the complex fruit flavors. I looked up a clone recipe and it had a 1/2 lb of victory malt, 1/2 lb of caramel malt and 1/2 lb of wheat. It has me thinking about small tweeks I could make hat could potentially add lots of flavor. The problem with 21 years of aging is I think all those flavors that are there now won't be later, while that classic caramel flavor can shine through even 2 decades later.

So, I'm now looking for that one special addition to make this unique.
 
Victory/Biscuit malts might not be a bad addition. They add a slightly toasty flavor to beer and in quantity can create the perception of dryness. Honestly I feel like wheat adds the perception of sweetness and (objectively) body to the beer. That might not be exactly what you are looking for here, but I suppose it couldn't hurt. Rye is a great alternative, as in my experience it tends to have a drying effect while increasing the body of the beer. Used in quantity (20-30%) it reminds me of apple brandy.

Vienna tends to add a little toasty/grainy/warm effect. I'm not sure if using a portion of Vienna might not be a bad idea. As the flavor contributions from vienna are never as intense, you could probably get away with using a few pounds of the stuff.

Any way you go, using half pound additions for the specialty grains is probably smart! With bigger beers I notice it is easy to over do these things.
 
Hey man, I hope you haven't given up on your barleywine! I bottled mine yesterday with the oxy-seal caps and used 'wine gas' (CO2, N2, Ar) to purge the head spaces of the bottles. Today I'm waxing the tops.

If you are curious, the wine gas was about ten bucks for a steel can. I probably wouldn't have done this except that these bottles might last a long time. It's called "Private Reserve Wine Preserver" and comes in a maroon and gold aerosol can.
 
For 10 bucks that's probably money we'll spent. I certainly haven't given up, just been busy and then went on a mini vacation but I'm back! No time to brew anything this weekend or next, but maybe the weekend of July 4th. This weekend was devoted to our anniversary and a nice long broker smoke.
 
Brew day is here again! It's been a while since I checked in on this, been busy getting baby stuff set up.

We did do a brew on July 4 that was a cream ale and it should be ready on Friday.

On to the barley wine! I am going with the idea of 2 separate all grain batches combined in the Carboy. I am doing 1 batch of 11 lb Maris otter with 1 lb 75 German crystal and another of 11 lb 2 row with 1 lb German 75 crystal. I have 1.5 oz of hops for each batch to come in just above 30 IBUs.

Wish me luck! It's going to be a LONG brew day.
 
So it took me from about 9am to midnight, but I did it! The Carboy is bubbling away in a cooler of 65 degree water.

It was quite he epic experience. Both batches had a boil time of about 3 hrs each to get down to the target gravity of about 1.115. I ended up with a total if about 4.5 gallons which is a little less than I planned for, but not by too much. I would rather hit the proper gravity than hit the volume.

This was the first time to use my new spigots that I installed in my brew kettle and ale pail and it certainly made sparging easier. It was a long day with a lot learned!
 
Cheers, man! I've been waiting for this day. Just a heads up, mine is taking MUCH longer to bottle carbonate than I would have expected. It's already been a month...
 
Good to know. So at the 1 month how carbonated is it?

Holy krausen! On Sunday morning there was barely any but I could tell the yeast were working on it. By Sunday night it was about an inch thick. This morning it has filled the carboy with about 1 inch of room at the top left to grow. I've never seen such a vigorous fermentation. It's got our guest bedroom smelling glorious!
 
It wasn't carbonated a lick. Not one bubble and no hiss. It was discouraging until I read a thread or two that mentioned it can take up to 3 months.

I hope you have a blow off setup!
 
I made a Belgian Dubbel in 2009.. so over 5 years ago. I cracked a bottle open the other day and it was fantastic. I didn't even have it sealed in wax.

I would think that as long as you dipped the caps in wax, you should be fine.

Have you given thought to doing something that might have more flavor though.. ie. a Belgian Dark Strong?
 
Good luck with the carbonation. I was reading about he possibility of rep itching a small amount of yeast before bottling, don't remember the recommendations that I read but I figured I would worry about that when I get to the bottling phase.

Regarding the style, I went with barley wine for 2 reasons, quality in long term aging and my own taste. I love the flavors associated with barley wine. I suppose I could do a yearly batch of something to age. Could be a fun yearly project although I don't think I have that kind of room right now.
 
syd138 said:
I made a Belgian Dubbel in 2009.. so over 5 years ago. I cracked a bottle open the other day and it was fantastic. I didn't even have it sealed in wax.

I would think that as long as you dipped the caps in wax, you should be fine.

Have you given thought to doing something that might have more flavor though.. ie. a Belgian Dark Strong?
Click to expand...

Congrats in the dubbel by the way. Have you tasted it over the 5 years or was that your first one to taste? 5 years is quite a goal, I don't know how I am going to manage 21 years.
 
MetalMan2004 said:
Congrats in the dubbel by the way. Have you tasted it over the 5 years or was that your first one to taste? 5 years is quite a goal, I don't know how I am going to manage 21 years.
Click to expand...

I have periodically been tasting it for the past 5 years.. the same with a Belgian Tripel I did 4 years ago.

The Tripel tasted like an ale with a shot of vodka in it for the first year.. very hot. By about year 3, it was amazing.

I did a blind taste test a few months ago with some friends who know nothing about beer.

I put my Tripel against a Chimay that I have been aging for about 6 months (and I think Chimay ages it 6 months before selling it).

Hands down they all said that the Chimay tasted like vodka and my Tripel was awesome and tasted fruity.

Aging does wonders.
 
Well I checked the gravity on Tuesday (9 days of fermentation) and I am at 11%! Those yeast were some beasts. I did use a starter but only 1 package and about 24 hrs of headstart. The yeast was a 1056 American Ale yeast smack pack.

It didn't taste "hot" or alcoholic but it didn't taste good either. There was a lot of stuff still floating in it and it basically tasted like wort with a lot of trub. Lots of time left in the carboy though.
 
Barley wine update! Well it had a month in the fermenter and got to 14%. Then it went into secondary and has been on French oak for 3 months.

Well it tastes fantastic! Reminds me of maple syrup. A little bit of alcohol heat but really less than I expected from 14%! After 3 months on oak there is no oak flavor yet so needless to say it'll be sitting for a long time.

So my current questions:

I opened the carboy to taste of course. It's a 5 gallon carboy and I ended up with maybe 4 gallons so there's a good bit of headspace in the carboy. Since I opened it I'm afraid there is a lot of oxygen in the carboy and it isn't being displaced because there is no more fermentation. Earlier a can of gas was suggested for bottling, should I do that for the carboy too? It may be sitting there another year and I don't want it getting too oxidated...

Any label suggestions? There was a label company on here earlier in the har doing a label give away that looked cool. Obviously I didn't win and I don't remember the brand name.

I have more questions but we'll go a couple at a time.
 
Oxygen should certainly be an issue.

I recently brewed an old ale that I wanted to bulk age but only had an empty 3 gal Better Bottle. My first thought was to transfer to another bucket with a priming solution much like bottling figuring it would create a new CO2 layer. I was told it wouldn't be enough to help for the 6 months I intended on allowing it to sit. I just bottled it.
 
Thread revive!

In case people don't want to read this whole thread before they answer here is a quick summary.

Wife was pregnant so i made a 13% barley wine for my kid with the intention of drinking it when he is old enough. Here we are a couple of years later and the beer has been on oak for at least a year if not longner (and I've had a second kid that also has her own beer. Thats another story though.). Its bottling time and Inhave new questions!

I bought White Labs super high gravity ale yeast wlp099 for bottling. I made a starter with about 650ml of water and 1/2 cup dme. I feel like I should step it up a couple of times since the barleywine its going into is 13%. Should I step up the OG of the 2nd step? Should I step up the wort volume of the 2nd step? Should i do both?
 
Can't speak much for the bottling aspect but this has been a great read looking forward to future updates, just recently did a barley wine myself
 
MetalMan2004 said:
Thread revive!

In case people don't want to read this whole thread before they answer here is a quick summary.

Wife was pregnant so i made a 13% barley wine for my kid with the intention of drinking it when he is old enough. Here we are a couple of years later and the beer has been on oak for at least a year if not longner (and I've had a second kid that also has her own beer. Thats another story though.). Its bottling time and Inhave new questions!

I bought White Labs super high gravity ale yeast wlp099 for bottling. I made a starter with about 650ml of water and 1/2 cup dme. I feel like I should step it up a couple of times since the barleywine its going into is 13%. Should I step up the OG of the 2nd step? Should I step up the wort volume of the 2nd step? Should i do both?
Click to expand...

I did this same exact thing for my son last year on his first birthday. I made a massive english barleywine (~17%) and pitched some proofed champagne yeast at bottling time.

My plan was to drink a bottle every year, get a pic with my son, and then eventually we will crack a bottle together on the birthday I deem appropriate.

Anyhoo, it did not carb as much as I wanted it too. I get a slight hiss opening the bottle, but you can still taste the residual sweetness. I used the WLP099 yeast as my finishing yeast to get to the ~17% so I think you should be good to go at 13%. I wish I would have gone the starter route or saved some of the 99 for bottling time.

Side note, the bottle I opened this year (first bottle I tasted) was really good. I think the extra sweetness actually works in my favor with the alcohol and roast levels the beer has. It will be interesting to see him taste his first "official" beer and have it be a pitch black, smokey, oaky, raisin-y 17% barleywine.
 
Honestly I think you're fine without stepping up. You are just asking the yeast to ferment some simple bottling sugar. I usually just add some dry champagne yeast when bottling an older beer.

I am doing a similar project for my son who is almost two, but it's an imperial milk stout and a sour version of the same recipe. I am rebrewing the same recipe every year so that each year on his birthday, I'll open a bottle of each from each year to have an epic vertical.
 

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