Australian Sparkling Ale

[Slim M]

So I’ve been wondering if any of you guys are ASA brewers. Been thinking this might be a good quick turnaround brew. I brewed one years ago but wondering what you guys recipe & method looks like. I believe they are meant to be enjoyed young like Hefeweizen.

What’s your yeast? I’m thinking S-04 might be good. Years ago I used the big 15g Coopers pack.

What’s your recipe?

What’s your turnaround time? I remember enjoying mine young like 1 week fermentation 1 week force carbing and drinking.

 

[Slim M]

Got this some place kinda interesting

 

[ba-brewer]

I can't really add anything but have look at brewing a sparkling ale from time to time as I have some WLP009 and WLP059 yeast.

I think there are newer versions of sparkling ale that use the newer Australian hops varieties.

 

[Slim M]

I can't really add anything but have look at brewing a sparkling ale from time to time as I have some WLP009 and WLP059 yeast.

I think there are newer versions of sparkling ale that use the newer Australian hops varieties.

Got any recommendations for a dry yeast? Kicking ideas around but starting to think Verdant IPA might be interesting in this style.

 

[ba-brewer]

I don't use a lot of dry yeast, but for a fast turn around to get a clear beer I think S04 would be better than verdant IPA unless you are adding some sort of fining.

Verdant should bring more esters than S-04 but maybe less attenuations which seems to be part of the beer style. Adding 5 or 10% sugar might help verdant dry it out.

I have not used the coopers dry yeast but the specs seems like it would be a good choice.

 

[Slim M]

Yeah I have nothing against liquid culture yeast. I don’t really have a lhbs so everything is mail order at the time.

 

[dmtaylor]

I made an Aussie spockling ale last year with S-04. Turned out way too clean, no fruity character at all. Next time I might try the Coopers yeast again, did that about 10 years ago and it was ~O.K. Or maybe Verdant, now that one should get some fruity esters! I don't have much experience with the various liquid yeasts of English styles but there are dozens of those that could be tried, and even an Australian one, WLP009. That might be the best one to try, but who knows.

 

[Slim M]

I made an Aussie spockling ale last year with S-04. Turned out way too clean, no fruity character at all. Next time I might try the Coopers yeast again, did that about 10 years ago and it was ~O.K. Or maybe Verdant, now that one should get some fruity esters! I don't have much experience with the various liquid yeasts of English styles but there are dozens of those that could be tried, and even an Australian one, WLP009. That might be the best one to try, but who knows.

Do you remember what temp you fermented the S-04 batch?

 

[dmtaylor]

Do you remember what temp you fermented the S-04 batch?

Yes, it was, well... 68-73 F.

 

[Slim M]

Wow that’s on the warm side of S-04 figured it would have some fruity ale flavors. That was my thoughts was to maybe use S-04 and ferm it warm, but after your experience I don’t know. Maybe Verdant with a little sugar & a warm ferm is the way.

 

[dmtaylor]

Wow that’s on the warm side of S-04 figured it would have some fruity ale flavors. That was my thoughts was to maybe use S-04 and ferm it warm, but after your experience I don’t know. Maybe Verdant with a little sugar & a warm ferm is the way.

Fruity esters are exactly what I was aiming for, so I was as shocked as anybody. Now I reach for S-04 to make clean lager-like ales. Just used it again on an Adambier, which is like a German barleywine, haven't tasted it but it smells like malt. If I remember, I'll update this again after I taste it (if it might matter).

 

[ba-brewer]

Had some fresh wlp059 yeast slurry so I brewed my first take at an Australian Sparkling Ale. I had some Pride of Ringwood hops but decided not to use them as they looked a little yellow and smell funky when I tested them in hot water. Used a single bittering charge of target instead.

91% Maris Otter
9% cane sugar
28IBUs target 60min
Starting gravity 1043
Last time I used WLP059 I got about 76% attenuation so should finish up close to 1010 for 4.3%ABV.

 

[Slim M]

Worth a watch if you got time. After some research, checking availability, and etc. I think I’m going with the following for my 5.5 gallon biab setup.

10lbs of pale ale malt
1lb sugar
Verdant IPA yeast

Still deciding on the hop schedule I’m not a fan of pride of ringwood I’ve gotten it twice and I bet it was old both times. Demand probably low in the states.

 

[PaleMan]

If any of you can get it, this is the flagship of Australian Sparkling Ale. I brew mine to the exact ABV, EBC and IBU's to this.
Makes an easy to brew, tasty homebrew.

 

[dmtaylor]

I have tasted Cooper's beer twice, but it was about 15-20 years ago. I haven't seen it around for a very long time. Wish I could remember how it tasted, wish I had some bottles here right now to pick it apart and understand it.

 

[Slim M]

If any of you can get it, this is the flagship of Australian Sparkling Ale. I brew mine to the exact ABV, EBC and IBU's to this.
Makes an easy to brew, tasty homebrew.

View attachment 776269

It is a great beer and great home brew they also have nice pale ale in the green label. I just wish the dry Coopers yeast was the same as the bottle sure would be convenient. Mind sharing your recipe with us?

 

[PaleMan]

I have tasted Cooper's beer twice, but it was about 15-20 years ago. I haven't seen it around for a very long time. Wish I could remember how it tasted, wish I had some bottles here right now to pick it apart and understand it.

Coopers Sparkling isnt a very complex beer, but none the less tasty. Malt driven, with a floral fruitiness. But a nice bitter after taste.

 

[PaleMan]

It is a great beer and great home brew they also have nice pale ale in the green label. I just wish the dry Coopers yeast was the same as the bottle sure would be convenient. Mind sharing your recipe with us?

Its quite simple, a base ale malt, with some wheat malt. Add a touch of dark chrystal malt to get your colour around 11 EBC.
I use one hop addition, Pride of Ringwood at 60 minutes to 30 IBU's.
ABV around 5.5 - 5.8%.
One real key though is to culture the yeast from Coopers Pale Ale bottles, which is easy for me i live in Australia.

 

[Slim M]

Its quite simple, a base ale malt, with some wheat malt. Add a touch of dark chrystal malt to get your colour around 11 EBC.
I use one hop addition, Pride of Ringwood at 60 minutes to 30 IBU's.
ABV around 5.5 - 5.8%.
One real key though is to culture the yeast from Coopers Pale Ale bottles, which is easy for me i live in Australia.

Yeah I just placed an order and went with Verdant IPA dry yeast. Looking at some of the old records I guess back in the day they included cane sugar with pale malt and not much else except hop addition. So I’m going with something similar. Using comet instead pride of ringwood.

 

[PaleMan]

Yeah I just placed an order and went with Verdant IPA dry yeast. Looking at some of the old records I guess back in the day they included cane sugar with pale malt and not much else except hop addition. So I’m going with something similar. Using comet instead pride of ringwood.

Coopers profess to use all malt these days and haven't used sugar since the late 90's.
But nothing wrong with that for an old fashioned authentic recipe. I have once or twice and still makes a great beer.

 

[Slim M]

Coopers profess to use all malt these days and haven't used sugar since the late 90's.
But nothing wrong with that for an old fashioned authentic recipe. I have once or twice and still makes a great beer.

Yeah that’s what I’m going for. Given that your Australian, you brew the style, & access to fresh Coopers vs the probably old stuff we get imported how young do you prefer to drink your version?

Years ago I made an ASA and used the 15g pack of dry Coopers yeast thinking at the time it might be the real stuff and it turned out pretty good and drank it after only a couple of weeks. I’ve since learned the dry yeast is not real stuff but it didn’t seem bad.

 

[PaleMan]

Yeah that’s what I’m going for. Given that your Australian, you brew the style, & access to fresh Coopers vs the probably old stuff we get imported how young do you prefer to drink your version?

Years ago I made an ASA and used the 15g pack of dry Coopers yeast thinking at the time it might be the real stuff and it turned out pretty good and drank it after only a couple of weeks. I’ve since learned the dry yeast is not real stuff but it didn’t seem bad.

I keg, and usually get stuck in after about 7 - 8 days, sometimes earlier. I carb my beers at around 14 psi. I'm very impatient. My wife isnt a beer drinker but she loves my versions of the Sparkling 5.8% and Pale Ale 4.5%.

 

[ba-brewer]

@PaleMan, are you mashing low to get your sparkling ale to to dry out?

What kind of attenuation and flavors are you getting from the yeast you culture from the coopers bottles? How does it compare to the coopers dry yeast or whitelabs wlp009?

What should Pride of Ringwood hops smell and taste like, how much of the flavor makes it to the final beer from your 60min addition? The ones I have smelled a bit like fuggle hops that have gone bad/cheesy so I am assuming I have old/bad hops.

 

[Slim M]

@PaleMan, are you mashing low to get your sparkling ale to to dry out?

What kind of attenuation and flavors are you getting from the yeast you culture from the coopers bottles? How does it compare to the coopers dry yeast or whitelabs wlp009?

What should Pride of Ringwood hops smell and taste like, how much of the flavor makes it to the final beer from your 60min addition? The ones I have smelled a bit like fuggle hops that have gone bad/cheesy so I am assuming I have old/bad hops.

I have tried to use pride of ringwood a couple of times but I believe both times they were old or oxidized. I’m sure it’s a fine hop but maybe just not a big demand in the states so they probably sit around.

I’m going to go with comet its a neomexicanus hop. I went to beer maverick they have a program that matches hops and according to it comet was close to exact match to pride of ringwood. I will report back.

 

[ba-brewer]

I have tried to use pride of ringwood a couple of times but I believe both times they were old or oxidized. I’m sure it’s a fine hop but maybe just not a big demand in the states so they probably sit around.

I’m going to go with comet its a neomexicanus hop. I went to beer maverick they have a program that matches hops and according to it comet was close to exact match to pride of ringwood. I will report back.

I could not find any Pride of Ringwood at the US vender that list harvest dates, I got mine from Northern Brewer only because they had them.

Comet does seem like a better flavor match than than the EKG and Cluster combo in the video you posted. Maybe Comet and EKG or Comet and target to boost the spicy herbal flavors. I have some comet hops in the freezer so might give them a try next time.

 

[Slim M]

Ba-Brewer I don’t think I’m going to be adding anything but a 60 minute addition hop so I probably could get by with most anything really, but yeah comet seemed close. I guess I could toss a pinch in at 15 minutes, hadn’t made my mind up on that. I’m not sure what Coopers does but it sounds like Paleman does not add any flavor or aroma hops in his recipe and he gets to taste the real thing fresher than we do.

Years ago when I brewed an ASA my notes say just a 60 minute addition and I seemed feel it was close to the Coopers I was able to get back then. I used to be able get Coopers pretty regularly and don’t remember much hop flavor or aroma.

 

[PaleMan]

@PaleMan, are you mashing low to get your sparkling ale to to dry out?

What kind of attenuation and flavors are you getting from the yeast you culture from the coopers bottles? How does it compare to the coopers dry yeast or whitelabs wlp009?

What should Pride of Ringwood hops smell and taste like, how much of the flavor makes it to the final beer from your 60min addition? The ones I have smelled a bit like fuggle hops that have gone bad/cheesy so I am assuming I have old/bad hops.

I don't really mash low in an attempt to almost clone a Coopers, I'm not that fussy. Usually 64 - 65 C.

Attenuation all i can say is my beers finish around 1009 - 1010. I have also used Coopers dry yeast with good results, but doesn't quite get that Coopers taste. The best thing here is to make a starter or throw in two - three packets as the packets are small, 7 grams.

Fresh Pride Of Ringwood should smell citrusy and almost earthy, and have the same affect if using as a late addition which i don't. Its purely used for bittering ( so probably no flavour ). I'm lucky enough to have it in good supply and always vacuum packed. I've never come across stale hops.

I think really an Aussie Sparkling is all about the malts and getting the correct bitterness. A Coopers Sparkling Ale really does have a lovely aroma that mostly comes from the malt and yeast to an extent.

 

[Arminius757]

Few days old but I wanted to chime in with some recent experience.

Made my attempt at a Sparkling Ale early this spring. Used the following recipe:

OG: 1.042
FG: 1.005
35 IBU

60 min at 149 F

38.7% US 2 Row
38.7% UK Maris Otter
16.1% Turbinado Sugar
6.5% Crystal 40

0.75 oz Ella at 15
0.75 oz Ella at Knockout
0.5 oz Ella post fermentation dry hop

Lallemand ESB

Pitched at 65F
Let rise to 68F, held 2 days
Let rise to 73F, held till completion

Overall, it was super enjoyable beer, though I think I would reduce the sugar or change it to corn sugar, as I feel it did give a bit of a sweetness (think like sugar water, even though all that sugar probably fermented out) that I didn't really like. I would totally recommend stepping outside of the box and choosing some more modern Australian or UK hop verities. I got a nice subtle floral and tropical fruit character from Ella that played well with the light body and high carbonation. I think using the Verdant yeast could add some really interesting subtle fruit characters that would really make this a great style.

I guess it depends what you are going for. I haven't had Coopers myself, but it sounds like it would be a more spicy hop flavor, though I have heard that Pride of Ringwood can give off a metallic (think iron), earthy characteristic.

 

[Miraculix]

Few days old but I wanted to chime in with some recent experience.

Made my attempt at a Sparkling Ale early this spring. Used the following recipe:

OG: 1.042
FG: 1.005
35 IBU

60 min at 149 F

38.7% US 2 Row
38.7% UK Maris Otter
16.1% Turbinado Sugar
6.5% Crystal 40

0.75 oz Ella at 15
0.75 oz Ella at Knockout
0.5 oz Ella post fermentation dry hop

Lallemand ESB

Pitched at 65F
Let rise to 68F, held 2 days
Let rise to 73F, held till completion

Overall, it was super enjoyable beer, though I think I would reduce the sugar or change it to corn sugar, as I feel it did give a bit of a sweetness (think like sugar water, even though all that sugar probably fermented out) that I didn't really like. I would totally recommend stepping outside of the box and choosing some more modern Australian or UK hop verities. I got a nice subtle floral and tropical fruit character from Ella that played well with the light body and high carbonation. I think using the Verdant yeast could add some really interesting subtle fruit characters that would really make this a great style.

I guess it depends what you are going for. I haven't had Coopers myself, but it sounds like it would be a more spicy hop flavor, though I have heard that Pride of Ringwood can give off a metallic (think iron), earthy characteristic.

Whatever gave you this sweetness, the sugar had nothing t do with it. The sugar is 100% gone once fermentation finished.

It might actually be oxidation, what you are tasting. Some oxidative processes result in a certain sweetness.

 

[Slim M]

Few days old but I wanted to chime in with some recent experience.

Made my attempt at a Sparkling Ale early this spring. Used the following recipe:

OG: 1.042
FG: 1.005
35 IBU

60 min at 149 F

38.7% US 2 Row
38.7% UK Maris Otter
16.1% Turbinado Sugar
6.5% Crystal 40

0.75 oz Ella at 15
0.75 oz Ella at Knockout
0.5 oz Ella post fermentation dry hop

Lallemand ESB

Pitched at 65F
Let rise to 68F, held 2 days
Let rise to 73F, held till completion

Overall, it was super enjoyable beer, though I think I would reduce the sugar or change it to corn sugar, as I feel it did give a bit of a sweetness (think like sugar water, even though all that sugar probably fermented out) that I didn't really like. I would totally recommend stepping outside of the box and choosing some more modern Australian or UK hop verities. I got a nice subtle floral and tropical fruit character from Ella that played well with the light body and high carbonation. I think using the Verdant yeast could add some really interesting subtle fruit characters that would really make this a great style.

I guess it depends what you are going for. I haven't had Coopers myself, but it sounds like it would be a more spicy hop flavor, though I have heard that Pride of Ringwood can give off a metallic (think iron), earthy characteristic.

Thanks for sharing! Yeah if all goes well I will be working on this over the wknd. I’m looking forward to trying out these comet hops and Verdant yeast.

Did you actually taste swiftness or was it a mouthfeel thing? All the brews I’ve ever added a sugar, agave, or honey to all dried out very well with no sweetness except for one I added brown sugar and it was a strange result I don’t care for again.

 

[Arminius757]

Thanks for sharing! Yeah if all goes well I will be working on this over the wknd. I’m looking forward to trying out these comet hops and Verdant yeast.

Did you actually taste swiftness or was it a mouthfeel thing? All the brews I’ve ever added a sugar, agave, or honey to all dried out very well with no sweetness except for one I added brown sugar and it was a strange result I don’t care for again.

I'm fairly confident that it was not an oxidation issue, as mentioned above, as it was not a cardboard flavor or staleness, and no one in the compition feedback suggested it to be oxidation. And it was definitely a sweetness, almost like molasses (not really sulfur). I mean, turbinado sugar is raw sugar, and i have gotten a character from molasses as you suggested, so i would suggest using corn sugar over turbinado. Just don't use table sugar haha

 

[Slim M]

I'm fairly confident that it was not an oxidation issue, as mentioned above, as it was not a cardboard flavor or staleness, and no one in the compition feedback suggested it to be oxidation. And it was definitely a sweetness, almost like molasses (not really sulfur). I mean, turbinado sugar is raw sugar, and i have gotten a character from molasses as you suggested, so i would suggest using corn sugar over turbinado. Just don't use table sugar haha

Looking back at your recipe it might have been the Carmel Malt that added the sweetness, but who knows.

 

[ba-brewer]

I had not tried coopers sparkling ale, I was more interested in just creating a beer that fits the style guidelines and for something to do with the Australian yeast I have. The discussions here got me to go out and see if I could find some coopers.

I was able to find both the sparking ale and their pale ale but wish I had looked closer at the bottles as they have a best used after date, sparkling ale was 4/7/21 and the pale was even older at 1/5/21. Both did show a little oxidation and the sparkling being a little worse, not sherry more wet cardboard, but still drinkable. I did not get any citrus or fruit from either beer but it seems there was a hop presence in the aroma, slightly herbal with earthy/leather/tobacco aroma (some of that could be oxidation or skunking I guess as these beer were sitting warm on the shelf of a mega mart liquor store). I tried to not get any yeast in the pour but I don't think I was able to do it with the sparkling ale as the carbonation level was just under a gusher. Actually quite amazing how much carbonation was present in the sparkling ale. For having so much carbonation it still had a decent body, I did not notice any carbonic bite either. I did not get much if any hop flavor from either beer fairly smooth malt with bitterness at the end. I am sure a fresh bottle would be a totally different beer.

I have a few couple bottle sitting in the fridge to see if a little cold conditioning will clean them up a little. The last ones had been in with my kegs at ~45F just long enough to get to temp. I plan to try to cultivate some of the yeast sediment to see how it compares to WLP009 and WLP059.

Might also allow a beer to go flat to check it's gravity as I am curious how a 5.8%ABV beer with a 1045 starting gravity and so much carbonation can have so much body.

 

[Slim M]

I had not tried coopers sparkling ale, I was more interested in just creating a beer that fits the style guidelines and for something to do with the Australian yeast I have. The discussions here got me to go out and see if I could find some coopers.

I was able to find both the sparking ale and their pale ale but wish I had looked closer at the bottles as they have a best used after date, sparkling ale was 4/7/21 and the pale was even older at 1/5/21. Both did show a little oxidation and the sparkling being a little worse, not sherry more wet cardboard, but still drinkable. I did not get any citrus or fruit from either beer but it seems there was a hop presence in the aroma, slightly herbal with earthy/leather/tobacco aroma (some of that could be oxidation or skunking I guess as these beer were sitting warm on the shelf of a mega mart liquor store). I tried to not get any yeast in the pour but I don't think I was able to do it with the sparkling ale as the carbonation level was just under a gusher. Actually quite amazing how much carbonation was present in the sparkling ale. For having so much carbonation it still had a decent body, I did not notice any carbonic bite either. I did not get much if any hop flavor from either beer fairly smooth malt with bitterness at the end. I am sure a fresh bottle would be a totally different beer.

I have a few couple bottle sitting in the fridge to see if a little cold conditioning will clean them up a little. The last ones had been in with my kegs at ~45F just long enough to get to temp. I plan to try to cultivate some of the yeast sediment to see how it compares to WLP009 and WLP059.

Might also allow a beer to go flat to check it's gravity as I am curious how a 5.8%ABV beer with a 1045 starting gravity and so much carbonation can have so much body.

Interesting observations. I got my grain & stuff delivered yesterday. I’m going with an English yeast strain, US pale ale malt, and US hops.

I know it’s a mix match of ingredients of sorts but the English yeast strain should be relatively authentic given Coopers original yeast prior to mutation was most likely an English strain. The comet hops appears to match up with ringwood pretty close, and I don’t think my choice of US pale ale malt will be to far off given I’ve never seen Joe White in the states. Will report back with results.

 

[Slim M]

Well things went pretty well today I think considering how the night went prior. Last night I done my routine workout, ate, & crushed my grain. Things went down hill from their my dog got sprayed by a skunk and it made for a long night.

I slept about 3 hours and the got up at 5am to get the brew day rolling and I was mashing by 6am. I had everything picked up and cleaned by 11am. This is what I went with and I’m a Biab guy so keep that in mind and yes I squeeze the bag and drip it.

10 lbs of Briess pale ale malt
.5oz Midnight Wheat
1.5lbs Cane Sugar at 15min
1oz of 10 aau Comet for 60 min
1Pack Verdant IPA yeast pitched at 68f

Total batch size 5.8 gallons = 5.5 gallons in fermenter plus plenty for a sample.

5 gallons strike water @ 159f = 151f with grain added & ambient around 84f. Mash for 75 minutes and removed bag, squeeze, & drain drip.

Total water used 7.5 gallon

Pre-boil gravity 1.035
OG 1.054

Fermentation chamber temp 64f starting tomorrow I will begin ramping the temp up a degree a day until I hit 70f

 

[Slim M]

I researched this style for a few weeks prior to brewing by reading various articles, post, & looking at supposedly historical info. I tried to take everything I read or heard into consideration prior to brewing because I was going for something semi historically accurate to earlier versions of this style. I admit most of the truly Australian ingredients are not readily available to me so I tried to make educated substitutions.

The one thing I think that sticks out after looking back is that most the stuff I read seemed to mention this was a style born out of the fact British ale being imported did not always make the trip in good shape. The other thing I remember being mentioned is that traditional British brewing practices did not suit the Australian environment which no doubt is much warmer than the UK. If the climate in Australia was not suitable for traditional British brewing I wonder why all the ASA recipes seem to recommend ferm temps in the traditional British style range? It just seems a little contradictory. Your thoughts?

 

[ba-brewer]

I decarbed one of the coopers sparkling ales and got a hydro reading of 1006 and a refractometer reading of 5.7brix. Using the beersmith tools it says the original gravity was 1050. That gives an attenuation of 88%.

Also added some sterile starter wort to the bottle dregs to see if I can get to come back to life.

Kegged my sparkling ale the other days, I am not going to naturally carb it but I did divided it up so I can try some different carb levels.

 

[Slim M]

Got the ale in the keg this morning after an 8 day fermentation, really wanted to leave it a bit longer at 70f but if I didn’t do it today didn’t know when I would be able to with the schedule I got coming up.

I started at 64f & held it for 24 hours then worked up temp a degree a day until I hit 69 and held it. I saw no visible signs of fermentation for after day 3. When I popped the lid this morning I was a little worried I saw krausen still on top and took a gravity reading and it was at 1.005 after temp correction. I overshot the fg a little but I’ve never used this Verdant yeast before so I didn’t know exactly what to expect. So og 1.054 fg 1.005 abv around 6.4%. I was shooting for 5.8% guess I should have mashed a little higher or used less sugar. O well.

 

[Slim M]

I was wondering why Coopers did not package and sale a dry version of the house yeast they use but instead packaged and sold something else fore home brewing. I was doing a little reading and I seen where they admitted they have made several attempts to dry it and sale the same strain that they use in the ales but they have never been able to get the strain to perform reliably after the process. Wish I would have book marked it so I could post the article but didn’t think about it at the time in apologize.

 

[Beer-Baron]

I was wondering why Coopers did not package and sale a dry version of the house yeast they use but instead packaged and sold something else fore home brewing. I was doing a little reading and I seen where they admitted they have made several attempts to dry it and sale the same strain that they use in the ales but they have never been able to get the strain to perform reliably after the process. Wish I would have book marked it so I could post the article but didn’t think about it at the time in apologize.

I've also been trying my hand at brewing a ASA recently. I just did the Peter Symons recipe from the video posted. It's fermenting now.

I used Coopers yeast cultured from the dregs in the bottom of the bottles.