APA recipe feedback

[Gra1nman]

Hey guys. I just threw this recipe together in order to use up some bits and pieces I have lying around. Any thoughts? I have extra amounts of each grain which could be added if they will improve the recipe:

Style: American Pale Ale (extract)

OG: 1.046

FG: 1.010

IBUs: 43

SRM: 6

ABV: 5%


2.5kg DME

200g Crystal 60L

150g Golden Naked Oats

100g Vienna


10g Magnum (60 min)

12g Simcoe (20 min)

10g Citra (20 min)

15g Columbus (flameout)


Dry hopping:

35g Simcoe

25g Amarillo


Nottingham yeast


Any feedback / suggested tweaks appreciated. Thanks.

 

[aprichman]

Vienna malt is not a steeping grain. If you're looking to add some depth to the malt profile try substituting 120g Victory or Biscuit malt.

 

[IslandLizard]

try substituting 120g Victory or Biscuit malt

Which ideally should be mashed too, not steeped.

You could easily do a mini mash with the Vienna at 150-155F for 30', but it's such a small amount, it's hardly worth the bother. I'd do at least 1/2 or 1 kilo of it.

I'd move all those late hops (both the 20' and the 0' (flameout) hops) to the "whirlpool" and steep (hop stand) for 30' at 160F. After flameout just chill down to 160F, add those 3 late hops and stir every 5 minutes. After 30', chill down to pitching temps. Maybe use a tad more Magnum to compensate for loss of bitterness due to moving the late hops. There's very little bittering at 160F (it will probably drop down to 150F over those 30' which is fine).

I think you'll brew a better APA doing that. And you learn something new.

 

[aprichman]

Seems pretty pointless to mash, even at 1kg I don't think it would add much of anything to the malt profile.

 

[IslandLizard]

Seems pretty pointless to mash, even at 1kg I don't think it would add much of anything to the malt profile.

Agreed!
But he can add his Biscuit/Victory malt to the Vienna.

Also depends what DME the OP is using. Golden Light would be appropriate, most extract brewers would keep that or the Pilsen Light in stock.
Just checking Briess' website, they actually have Pale Ale DME/LME now: "Rich malty, hints of biscuit and nuts."

 

[Sadu]

Are the oats going to do anything in a steeping-grains arrangement? I thought you had to mash oats with a decent amount of base malt to get any fun out of them?

 

[IslandLizard]

Are the oats going to do anything in a steeping-grains arrangement? I thought you had to mash oats with a decent amount of base malt to get any fun out of them?

These are Golden Naked Oats, they're a kind of crystal malt. They're also a bit "oily." Not sure if just steeping suffices or if they contain starch that needs to be converted.

That said, C5-C20 actually benefits largely from mashing too. C30 is a toss up.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Just checking Briess' website, they actually have Pale Ale DME/LME now: "Rich malty, hints of biscuit and nuts."

Briess also makes Munich and Vienna DME. Varies recipes in How To Brew, 4e use munich, vienna, or pale ale DME.

MoreBeer has been my source for the various DMEs for over a year (no problems with freshness so far). But check your favorite online store to see what they offer - Yakaima Valley Hops is more than hops these days - dry yeast, grains, and DME are available (https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/Brewing_Ingredients_s/1822.htm)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Are the oats going to do anything in a steeping-grains arrangement? I thought you had to mash oats with a decent amount of base malt to get any fun out of them?

Lets see what the vendor and/or maltster has to say:

... Simpsons Golden Naked Oats® is actually a huskless crystal malt. ...

Crystal malts are gently cooked during the malting process. Cooking initiates the enzymatic conversion of starches into fermentable sugars, and caramelizes some of the sugars as the malt reaches its final color. This eliminates the need to mash crystal malt, and ensures that some of the sugars will survive fermentation to sweeten the beer.

-- https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/sim-golden-naked-oats-25kg

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Any feedback / suggested tweaks appreciated. Thanks.

I generally prefer my APAs to be "clean", not "fruity", so I use US-05 (or similar) rather than Nottingham.

I have access to Briess Vienna DME, so I'd use that instead of Vienna malt.

 

[Gra1nman]

I generally prefer my APAs to be "clean", not "fruity", so I use US-05 (or similar) rather than Nottingham.

Same, the reason I have the Nottingham kicking around is bc I don’t use it anymore. I would rather use it up then chuck it though.

Vienna malt is not a steeping grain. If you're looking to add some depth to the malt profile try substituting 120g Victory or Biscuit malt.

I hav some victory I could add instead but could also do a partial mash with the grains rather than steep them. Sounds like I need to double the amount of Vienna though.

I'd move all those late hops (both the 20' and the 0' (flameout) hops) to the "whirlpool" and steep (hop stand) for 30' at 160F. After flameout just chill down to 160F, add those 3 late hops and stir every 5 minutes. After 30', chill down to pitching temps. Maybe use a tad more Magnum to compensate for loss of bitterness due to moving the late hops. There's very little bittering at 160F (it will probably drop down to 150F over those 30' which is fine).

I think you'll brew a better APA doing that. And you learn something new.

Thanks, this is really interesting advice. What characteristics would you expect to change if I replaced my hip schedule with the one you suggest?

These are Golden Naked Oats, they're a kind of crystal malt. They're also a bit "oily." Not sure if just steeping suffices or if they contain starch that needs to be converted.

That said, C5-C20 actually benefits largely from mashing too. C30 is a toss up.

Yeah, I have previously used Golden Naked Oats in a couple of recipes that call for them. They can be steeped and are good for adding body and mouthfeel.

 

[IslandLizard]

What characteristics would you expect to change if I replaced my hip schedule with the one you suggest?

More prominent hop flavor and aroma in the resulting beer. Since you're not adding boatloads of hops, those hop stands really give you all the flavor and aroma they have to give, without boiling them off. They won't add much bitterness, only a few IBUs, so add a little more Magnum to compensate and get it at 40-45 IBUs, or so.

 

[Gra1nman]

More prominent hop flavor and aroma in the resulting beer.

Well that’s never a bad thing [emoji23]

I’ll do as you suggest with the hops and double the amount of Vienna. Should get me to about where I want it to be.

Thanks.

 

[IslandLizard]

Vienna's DP is about 50, and your average grist DP should be around 30-35 to get complete conversion. So using 120 gr Biscuit/Victory, 300 grams of Vienna should suffice for your mini mash:

(300 x 50 DP) / (420) = 36 DP​

That's safe.
Mash in a medium sized pot (2-3 liters) placed in a prewarmed but turned off oven.

Steep the 2 crystals separately, do not add to the mash, unless you want to increase the Vienna proportionally.

 

[Gra1nman]

Vienna's DP is about 50, and your average grist DP should be around 30-35 to get complete conversion. So using 120 gr Biscuit/Victory, 300 grams of Vienna should suffice for your mini mash:

(300 x 50 DP) / (420) = 36 DP​

That's safe.
Mash in a medium sized pot (2-3 liters) placed in a prewarmed but turned off oven.

Steep the 2 crystals separately, do not add to the mash, unless you want to increase the Vienna proportionally.

Awesome, thanks. I have some victory to use up too.

Can Vienna not be mashed on its own and fully covert using its own DP, rather than need the Victory adding?

 

[IslandLizard]

Of course Vienna can be mashed by itself (DP ~50). Victory can't, it has no DP, it's all starch, no enzymes.
But you'd need quite a bit of Vienna to get the flavor. Even 10% isn't going to do it.

Good Vienna and Mexican Lagers are 100% Vienna!

 

[Gra1nman]

Of course Vienna can be mashed by itself (DP ~50). Victory can't, it has no DP, it's all starch, no enzymes.
But you'd need quite a bit of Vienna to get the flavor. Even 10% isn't going to do it.

Good Vienna and Mexican Lagers are 100% Vienna!

OK, got it. You have been super helpful - thanks.

 

[Gra1nman]

Just wanted to update people on this beer. My advice: don’t make it [emoji23].

The malt profile tastes pretty good - almost has a peanut butter element to it. The hop element, however, is far less palatable.

Not sure if the hop bill is bad in and of itself or just not a good dance partner with the malt profile.

I might experiment further using this malt bill for an ESB but would not recommend using it as a base for anything with citrusy hops.