Anyone With Experience with WLP037?

[KingBrianI]

I'm making a Mirror Pond Clone this weekend and since it calls for a highly flocculant english ale yeast I got excited because it meant I could try something new. I noticed the White Labs platinum strain WLP037 Yorkshire Square yeast is currently out so jumped at the chance and bought a vial. This is apparently the Samuel Smith's strain and used by them in open "Yorkshire Square" fermenters. Should be a neat strain to play around with. Anyway, I've found very little info from people's actual use of it and thought I'd see if anyone could reply with their experiences with it. Does it prefer the warmer or colder end of the range? What kind of flavors/aromas does it bring to the table? Do the tight conditions in a carboy cramp it's open fermentation style?

 

[KingBrianI]

No one? Made a starter with my vial today. The smell of the vial was very similar to the thames valley yeast but a bit fruitier. Smelt "thick" somehow too. Can't wait to try it out!

 

[SporkD2]

let us know

 

[14thstreet]

Brian, I've got NB's Oatmeal Stout kit (OG=1050) using this yeast in primary for 11 days now. I had stored the vial in the fridge for a couple of days and it caked to the bottom real nice. Took awhile to get it back into suspension for a one liter starter. Had it going for 2 days off and on a stirrer and didn't see any activity. Pitched the slurry to the wort at 68F into an airlocked glass carboy but moved it down to the basement where I thought it be 65F but turned out to be 60-62F for around 4 days before I moved it back to 66F. By that time fermentation had slowed (noticed a dip in fermentation temperature).

The day before I had brewed Brandon O's Graff Cider (OG=1057) and pitched Wyeast 1968 that was over a year old that was worked up to a 1 liter starter over a week or two prior. At the same temperature, the 1968 started within 8 hours and the 037 took probably a day or so to break a krausen. Okay different worts and not the same conditions but the 1968 worked faster at that point. Wasn't getting much smells, though I had a cold, compared to the fruity cider next to it.

Last night (Day 10) I took a hydrometer reading at 1.017 or about 66% attenuation. Seems like it chew a few more points (68-72% average attenuation). Graff is at 1.015 or 74%.

Overall, though again not the same wort, it seemed the 037 started slower but finished quicker than the 1968. Whether that's because the yeast quit (it is rather caked to the bottom of the carboy) or what is to be determined. Tasted the Oatmeal Stout and can't say I get toasty/nutty/diacetyl from it that others have attributed to or tried to find from this yeast. All I pick up on is the half pound roasted barley and otherwise muddled flavor. I can't say I'm good at early tastings how the finished product will turn out.

 

[jmo88]

King Brian,

what did you think of this strain? Just bought a vial today and am cotemplating an esb. Do you plan on reusing this one, is it worth it? I'm wondering if it needs open fermentation like ringwood.

 

[14thstreet]

The oatmeal stout I've done with this strain 2 months ago is just beginning to mellow out the roastiness/astringency of the roasted barley. I noticed a ring around my bottlenecks and either suspect an infection or a krausen ring post-carbonation. I targeted 2.3 volumes of CO2 but the beer seems more carbonated than that, as it foams excessively on a pour. The beer is not sour nor have I had gushers, so at this point, I'm hoping its just a stuck fermentation that got going again after priming and bottling. I plan to reuse the yeast in a bitter this weekend and later a brown in a small-batch open fermentation experiment. Hopefully with these two beers I'll be able to better assess what the yeast brings to the table.

 

[jmo88]

It's been about ten days since I've pitched WLP037 in my ESB. The 1.061 OG beer has reached its FG at 1.013. That's 77% attenuation. Besides my efficiency being higher than expected, The attenuation is a lot higher than I expected. I mashed at 152 and had a decent amount of crystal and other character malts in the grist.

For 5 days I did an open fermentation by resting the bucket lid on the fermentor. After 5 days the temperature of the beer started to come down to the ambient temp of 64F. At that point I closed the lid and moved it up 70F for it to finish and clean up diacetyl, which is certainly noticeable in the sample.

I've top cropped from this batch into a brown that is fermenting now. I'll post its results when it finishes up to see how they compare.

 

[14thstreet]

That's interesting, I have an 8 day ordinary bitter, 1.035, that was split between an open fermenter (like yours) and an airlocked one. 8 hours short of day 3 after pitching the yeast I noticed the krausen falling so that is when I closed the lid shut. FG was 1.008 on both which is also around 77% attenuation. Mash was 154-150F over the course of an hour, about 5% crystal. Although perhaps biased, the diacetyl I think I detect in the open fermenter is absent in the closed fermenter. I prefered the open fermenter sample and since I was already attenuated, I decided to bottle in hopes of preserving that difference. The difference was subtle, perhaps enough to have me confused...it wasn't a blind test.

 

[jmo88]

77% too? If that is the case with my next batch, I am going to try and keep this strain around for several more batches. Based on the White Labs attenuation specs I thought I'd have to use this exclusively for lower OG beers. I want a good attenuating English strain with some esters with emphasis on the malt. Looks like I may have found it.

The flavor is so malt-forward and the yeast is somehow soft. It's delicious green. The yeast has no bite.

 

[jmo88]

I just wanted to give an update on this yeast. I have brewed three batches with this yeast so far. The last two were pitched with the cropped yeast from the prior batch. Each batch has attenuated between 76% and 79%. This is higher than the white lab specs and there was nothing unusual about the grain bill or mash temp. The last batch was fermented with the lid tightly sealed at 64F and attenuated the same as the open fermented batches. Open fermentation isn't affecting the attenuation with this strain.

As for my impression of flavor, I will need to wait until the batches have been fully bottle conditioned. I'll update that in a few weeks.

 

[KingBrianI]

Sorry it's taken me a while to update. The mirror pond clone turned out excellent! It tastes very similar to the real thing, except for an amarillo instead of cascade aroma (ran out of cascade when it was time to dry hop). Attenuation was about 77% and the beer turned out malty and very well balanced. Even though it ended fairly dry, there is a nice strong sweet malt taste when the beer hits the tongue. The sweetness immediately gives way to a smooth bitterness and cascade hop flavor. The yeast produces a very balanced and crisp beer. I was expecting it to throw some more esters and produce that kind of bready, nutty, butterscotchy flavor common to sam smith's beers. It didn't. I'm not sure if the geometry of a yorkshire square is what creates that signature flavor or what, but I didn't get it in this beer. I fermented at an ambient temp of between 64-66 F and left the beer in primary for probably a month. The next beer for this yeast is a sam smith's oatmeal stout clone. I'll ferment it a bit warmer, pitch a bit less, and leave it on the yeast for a shorter amount of time to hopefully get a bit more yeast character.

 

[KingBrianI]

Well, the Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout clone is going now and I'm not quite following what I thought I would do above. I made a 1.25 L starter with a bunch of washed yeast from the last batch. It really took off and I eneded up with a BUNCH of yeast. I pitched it all. I've also been keeping it at 62-64 ambient. Two interesting things I've noticed are 1) this yeast is un-topcropable! and 2) at low temperatures, it throws out some hydrogen sulfide.

I intentially put this beer in a bucket instead of a carboy for primary because I intended to top crop to get some healthy, clean yeast. When I opened up the bucket 48 hours after pitching, there was absolutely no kreusen! A ton of bubbles were rising to the surface though, it looked like seltzer water freshly poured.

As for the hydrogen sulfide, I was kind of surprised. I hadn't experienced that with any British yeasts and thought it was mainly an attribute of lager, wine, and some german ale yeasts. I'm not worried since it always clears up in other beers, just something interesting I noticed.

 

[jmo88]

I've top cropped this four times. After 48hours the krausen is not dense. I skimmed most of this off and threw it out. 12 hours later I top cropped very easily. Each successive batch has turned out great. Maybe you weren't getting under that initial foamy krausen.

 

[KingBrianI]

I've top cropped this four times. After 48hours the krausen is not dense. I skimmed most of this off and threw it out. 12 hours later I top cropped very easily. Each successive batch has turned out great. Maybe you weren't getting under that initial foamy krausen.

weird! there was no krausen at all when I opened it up. not even any chunks floating around. it looks like a beer after the krausen drops completely, except for the thousands of tiny bubbles rising and popping on the surface.

 

[jmo88]

That is weird. Each of my four batches had exactly the same fermentation characteristics. It took ten days for that cottage-cheese-like yeast to finally drop. Not the fastest attenuator, but i do enjoy the flavor it provides.

 

[KingBrianI]

did you ever get any hydrogen sulfide smells from primary?

 

[jmo88]

No. Not in the slightest. Maybe you got yourself some funky yeast.

 

[Freezeblade]

I've used this strain for 4 fermentations so far, and interestingly enough, the top-crop action was totally different for each ferment. The first beer had the thick crazy krausen that jmo88 is talking about, but when I harvested and washed some of the yeast (the top-cropped stuff I waited too long for, and smelled wierd) and used it in another batch, it hardly had any krausen at all. I figure this is because I picked up more of the yeast that flocced when I washed, and less of the stuff that hung out on the surface. Although it could be a temp of ferment thing.

PS. the other two ferments were Ciders, one directly from the tube, the other from some of the initial starter when I did my first batch of beer with it, they both had more krausen that I've ever seen on a cider ferment.

 

[14thstreet]

Open fermentation isn't affecting the attenuation with this strain. As for my impression of flavor, I will need to wait until the batches have been fully bottle conditioned. I'll update that in a few weeks.

Any update on this? My bitter was fermented both ways at the same time/temp and I found a slight difference at 1 week post fermentation. After bottling however, to me at least, that difference is gone. I cannot say if it was a hop related flavor or diacetyl, strange as that sounds.

 

[jmo88]

Any update on this? My bitter was fermented both ways at the same time/temp and I found a slight difference at 1 week post fermentation. After bottling however, to me at least, that difference is gone. I cannot say if it was a hop related flavor or diacetyl, strange as that sounds.

My open ferments turned out the same as my closed ones. I did get a nice subtle diacetyl when I fermented at 62F. But that was gone after the rest at 70F. It smelled just like Sammy Smith before the rest though. I'd think if you are looking for a clone of Sammy Smith, ferment cold and don't do a d-rest.

I love this yeast. I really really do. I just made a American IPA that is clean and malty. It's wonderful.

 

[Freezeblade]

I love this yeast. I really really do. I just made a American IPA that is clean and malty. It's wonderful.

We need to write white labs to tell them to bring it back. I just bottled a batch of dry stout with 037. tasted amazing, even flat.

 

[StAnthonyB]

I like WLP037 very much. It's given me crystal clear beer and delicious to boot. I have fermented two 12.5 gallon batches in my 14.7 gallon conical. Both ferments were done at 72F. I didn't skim and only dropped the trub after the 3rd week in primary. 2 weeks in secondary with knox gelatin 3 days before kegging.

Batch #1: OG 1.042, FG 1.012. (small starter), Mashed at 158F.
Batch #2: OG 1.054, FG 1.010. (big starter), Mashed at 154F.

Both batches were intended for the bitter category. There is a definite sweet or maltose note (I can't distinguish) on Batch #1 (Special Bitter). I haven't tasted Batch #2 (ESB) except for what I have drawn for gravity measurements. For the next two batches I will nearly replicate the recipes but try to mash at 150F and ferment at an even 68F.

Batch #1: 13# Pale Malt, 1# 10L Crystal, 1# 23L Crystal, 1# Wheat Malt, 3oz Amber Malt, 1oz Black Malt. Bravo hops, Fuggles, and Fuggles. (30 IBU, 9 SRM)

Batch #2: 15# Pale Malt, 1# 10L Crystal, 2# 23L Crystal, 1# Wheat Malt, 8oz Amber Malt, 2oz Black Malt, Bravo hops, Fuggles, and Fuggles. (35 IBU, 11 SRM)

I would like to try removing the amber malt and wheat malt, 10L and 23L crystals and substitute in 40L crystal and 140L Crystal. And, swap the Fuggles hops for First Gold or Styrian Goldings.

 

[14thstreet]

I'll have to give the cold ferment a try on the Nut Brown I have coming up. I had no idea what my previous 2 batches have been fermenting at, but certainly not higher than 70F. Your suggestion seems to be inline with what Samuel Smith may do, i.e., pitch at 58F, let rise to 62F and attemperate to 60F after the yeast is removed, before casking.

There is also a rousing schedule during the ferment that may contribute to the house flavor but I haven't tried that yet. My oatmeal stout failed to attenuate enough so keeping it cold could present some problems, especially if bottling.

 

[jmo88]

Nice to hear all the 037 love.

My 4 batches so far with this have been an ESB, a brown, an American IPA, and a West coast Amber. The two American beers cleaned up fine and have brilliant clarity. The two English examples, lacking the late citrus hop additions, have an amazing complex character. On these I am getting aromas of pear, plum, and sourdough bread that comes out as the beer warms to about 50F.

This stuff is so easy to skim a huge sample that I'll have this around until the next release, for sure.

 

[KingBrianI]

Nice to hear all the 037 love.

My 4 batches so far with this have been an ESB, a brown, an American IPA, and a West coast Amber. The two American beers cleaned up fine and have brilliant clarity. The two English examples, lacking the late citrus hop additions, have an amazing complex character. On these I am getting aromas of pear, plum, and sourdough bread that comes out as the beer warms to about 50F.

This stuff is so easy to skim a huge sample that I'll have this around until the next release, for sure.

Do you ever use fermcap? I'm wondering if that is why there was absolutely no krausen when I tried to top crop.

 

[jmo88]

Do you ever use fermcap? I'm wondering if that is why there was absolutely no krausen when I tried to top crop.

I've never used it. Had a nasty boilover last weekend though...

For me, the yeast sat on top, looking like cottage cheese for almost 2 weeks.

I am fermenting with ringwood now, expecting to top crop, and only got a krausen about an inch tall–not dense enough, with lots of brown yeast. Go figure.

Was this the first beer from your vial? I noticed a healthier krausen on subsequent beers, what appeared to be higher viability.

 

[KingBrianI]

It was the second generation. I made a starter with the original vial and pitched it into an APA. Washed the yeast from that, made a starter with some of it, and pitched that into the oatmeal stout that had no krausen. I had used fermcap during the boil though.

 

[wildwest450]

It was the second generation. I made a starter with the original vial and pitched it into an APA. Washed the yeast from that, made a starter with some of it, and pitched that into the oatmeal stout that had no krausen. I had used fermcap during the boil though.

During the boil shouldn't relate to the fermenter. It can be used in the fermenter, then you won't have krausen, or much of one.

 

[corncob]

I made several batches with WLP037 too, all also missing the Sam Smith's taste. Dry, dry, dry. No pear, no butterscotch. I am bummed, but still too new to brewing to know what I did wrong.

 

[StAnthonyB]

I made several batches with WLP037 too, all also missing the Sam Smith's taste. Dry, dry, dry. No pear, no butterscotch. I am bummed, but still too new to brewing to know what I did wrong.

My only experience with WLP037 right now is fermenting at 72F. I am going to whip up a batch this weekend. I think I'll shoot for an IPA since I have recently done Special Bitter and ESB. Instead of using the conical like usual I am going to wash my wort into the conical to grab the left over yeast cake from the last two batches and drain it immediately into my old 6.5 gallon carboy. I'll ferment in that.

I have some Bedford Ale yeast (WLP006) that needs to get used by next week, which I haven't even tried yet. I think the WLP006 is calling out for a batch of Mild. I've been using Bravo for bittering hops and trying to think of ways to use them up. I also have a spare 27# of Baird's pale malt kicking around that I'd like to finish up; so that, I can make room for a new 55# bag of Thomas Fawcett Optic pale malt.

Give me a few days and I'll report how the IPA brew day way. Perhaps I'' even post a recipe.

 

[KingBrianI]

A hydrometer sample a few days ago of the sam smith's oatmeal stout clone I made with this yeast still had remnants of the hydrogen sulfide I smelled early in fermentation. I'm not sure what happened, but the yeast wasn't happy during this fermentation. I've moved the bucket to a warmer place to hopefully get the yeast to clean up a bit more. I'll transfer to secondary this weekend probably, hopefully the sulfurous smell has gone away by then. Then it will be off to a keg for nitro dispensing. I'll post another update at that time.

 

[StAnthonyB]

A hydrometer sample a few days ago of the sam smith's nut brown clone I made with this yeast still had remnants of the hydrogen sulfide I smelled early in fermentation. I'm not sure what happened, but the yeast wasn't happy during this fermentation. I've moved the bucket to a warmer place to hopefully get the yeast to clean up a bit more. I'll transfer to secondary this weekend probably, hopefully the sulfurous smell has gone away by then. Then it will be off to a keg for nitro dispensing. I'll post another update at that time.

I took 4 weeks at 72F, 2 weeks at 60ish, and 1 week on knox gelatin at 35ish before kegging a Special Bitter. I noticed there was a sulfurish smell with that one, but with the ESB I pitched much more yeast and never had a sulfur smell.


I just measured it all out.

10# Pale Malt 2.5L, 2# CaraMalt 10.5L, 2# Wheat Malt 1.85L -- 1.4oz Bravo@45min, 1oz Bravo@15min, 1oz Fuggles@flameout.

Mash at 148F, 75minutes in 4.5 gallons, Batch sparge 195F at w/ 4.5 gallons. This should yield 7.5 gallons before boil. Post boil volume should be 6.5 gallons. I'll drain 6 gallons into the fermenter and call it a day (after clean-up).

 

[StAnthonyB]

I like WLP037 very much. It's given me crystal clear beer and delicious to boot. I have fermented two 12.5 gallon batches in my 14.7 gallon conical. Both ferments were done at 72F. I didn't skim and only dropped the trub after the 3rd week in primary. 2 weeks in secondary with knox gelatin 3 days before kegging.

Batch #1: OG 1.042, FG 1.012. (small starter), Mashed at 158F.
Batch #2: OG 1.054, FG 1.010. (big starter), Mashed at 154F.

Both batches were intended for the bitter category. There is a definite sweet or maltose note (I can't distinguish) on Batch #1 (Special Bitter). I haven't tasted Batch #2 (ESB) except for what I have drawn for gravity measurements. For the next two batches I will nearly replicate the recipes but try to mash at 150F and ferment at an even 68F.

Batch #1: 13# Pale Malt, 1# 10L Crystal, 1# 23L Crystal, 1# Wheat Malt, 3oz Amber Malt, 1oz Black Malt. Bravo hops, Fuggles, and Fuggles. (30 IBU, 9 SRM)

Batch #2: 15# Pale Malt, 1# 10L Crystal, 2# 23L Crystal, 1# Wheat Malt, 8oz Amber Malt, 2oz Black Malt, Bravo hops, Fuggles, and Fuggles. (35 IBU, 11 SRM)

Here's an update on my WLP037 experiment....

I haven't replicated any batches. In fact, I acquired a new mash tun; so, this means I'll be calibrating it in the near future.


I brewed the 3rd batch as a half batch (5 gallons). 10# Pale Malt and 2# Wheat Malt. I mashed it at 148F. And, wasn't a NAZI about getting a high efficiency.

Batch #1: Brewed Jan 1st, OG=1.042, Fermented at 72F, Gravity on March 9th = 1.009

Batch #2: Brewed Feb 1st, OG=1.054, Fermented at 70F, Gravity on March 16th = 1.003

Batch #3: Brewed Mar 1st, OG=1.062, Fermented at 66F, Gravity on March 16th= 1.008.



Tasting Notes: Batch #1. Toastier at 1.012, Fruitier at 1.009.

Tasting Notes: Batch #2. Haven't tried carbonated yet, but gave it a taste straight from the keg. It is extremely clean. I can smell toast and clearly taste the amber malt. Not alcoholic.

Tasting Notes: Batch #3. In the secondary. Yeast still in suspension. It is sharp and fruity. Not alcoholic.

 

[jmo88]

Just wanted to update my latest WLP037 beer. I am bottling it today and it still has a very noticeable Sam Smith character. This character wasn't there before bottling the previous 4 batches of beer with this yeast. On THOSE beers I fermented at 64F then D-rest at 70F.

Things that changed this time to achieve Sam Smith yeast character:
1. Ferment cold at 61F for 18 days.
2. No diacetyl rest by raising ambient temperature.

If you're looking to clone Sam Smith beers or looking for that yeast character, you won't find it in the White labs recommended fermentation temps. Ferment it cold and keep it there until you bottle or keg.

 

[14thstreet]

Thanks for the update. The low fermentation temperature was something I was thinking about. I felt I had done a cool fermentation with my first batch but the yeast ended up quiting on me, and I've got very fizzy beer.

How are you treating your yeast from batch to batch? Carrying it over, fresh vial, starter?

I have a nut brown with wlp037 that is 8 days into primary. Has a diacetyl note to it but I'm expecting that to fade any time now. No concerted effort to raise temps, the carboy is sitting at ambient temperature, my guess is somewhere mid-60F. Can't say its nutty (11% amber malt) but it might be too green yet to tell.

 

[mattldm]

I brewed a simple batch of english brown ale that I spit into two 2.5 gallon fermentations. One with the WLP037 Yorkshire and the other with WLP007 Dry english yeast. Both beers fermented at 66F for 18 days. I (thought) was very careful to mark each starter and carboy to make sure that I had the beers labeled correctly as to which yeast was used... However, I bottled today and im really confused by the results...

upon bottling the beers i found that the one I had labeled 037 had attenuated much more, (1.010 FG 81% vs. 1.017 FG 69%) and was more cloudy. This is the opposite of what Whitelabs says for these two yeasts. It also tastes more Englishy, like the 002 yeast than the other. In fact the beer that I had labeled as 007 tastes very clean, almost 001 like, with hardly any english esters.

Both taste good and should be drinkable, but Im just concerned if I messed up or if they just both fermented this way? Anyone with experience on the flavor differences or comparisons?

 

[corbomite]

I brewed a simple batch of english brown ale that I spit into two 2.5 gallon fermentations. One with the WLP037 Yorkshire and the other with WLP007 Dry english yeast. Both beers fermented at 66F for 18 days. I (thought) was very careful to mark each starter and carboy to make sure that I had the beers labeled correctly as to which yeast was used... However, I bottled today and im really confused by the results...

upon bottling the beers i found that the one I had labeled 037 had attenuated much more, (1.010 FG 81% vs. 1.017 FG 69%) and was more cloudy. This is the opposite of what Whitelabs says for these two yeasts. It also tastes more Englishy, like the 002 yeast than the other. In fact the beer that I had labeled as 007 tastes very clean, almost 001 like, with hardly any english esters.

Both taste good and should be drinkable, but Im just concerned if I messed up or if they just both fermented this way? Anyone with experience on the flavor differences or comparisons?

I haven't used wl 007 before, but I have used 002 and 037 is definitely more attenuative than it.
I have been fermenting a batch of 037 for almost 2 weeks and it still has a very small krausen. The brown I made with 002 finished at 1.012 and the esb I am making with the 037 is at 1.010 and the ambient temp hasn't been above 65F.

 

[corbomite]

Bump...
I am using 037 and it has been just over a month and it has a sparse krausen still fermenting ever so slightly... My OG was 1.057? Anyone experience anything this long with 037. All the previous posts seemed like they had a shorter ferment.

 

[jmo88]

Bump...
I am using 037 and it has been just over a month and it has a sparse krausen still fermenting ever so slightly... My OG was 1.057? Anyone experience anything this long with 037. All the previous posts seemed like they had a shorter ferment.

Yes. Krausen sticks on top for a long time. It doesn't mean it's still actively fermenting though. I've found that fermentation is done after about ten days or so despite the persistent krausen. Just rack underneath it.

To me, it is like wy1469 for the same reason. It has a great profile. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the two.

 

[0110x011]

I literally just threw a pale ale into the fermenter with the Yorkshire Square yeast about an hour ago. Here's the recipe:

for 2.5 gallons

3.5lb 2-Row
8oz Munich
8oz Crystal 80
8oz Carapils

4g Columbus (14.4%AA) @ 90min
7g Centennial (8.7%AA) @ 30min
7g Centennial (8.7%AA) @ Flameout
7g Columbus (14.4%AA) @ Flameout

Single Infusion Mash @ 156 for 60min.

Ferment @ 66F

OG 1.053
est. FG 1.014
27 IBU
11.2 SRM
5.1% ABV

I'm hoping to keep the flavor more malt-driven to help showcase the yeast, but have enough hop to keep it American. I'll update once fermentation is going.