Anyone use RIMS with a Cooler MLT?

[Nagorg]

Hey HBT,

I've been batch sparging in rectangular cooler MLT's for years. Been wanting to do recirculated mashes and have the ability to do step mashing too so I'm thinking about using RIMS to get me there.

I think I can envision the setup for this but have been wondering how many might do this same thing already and am hoping for any insight. I'd rather not have to switch to a kettle with false-bottom MLT if using my existing cooler setup is practical. I may do that someday and go all electric, even on my kettle, but for now it seems adding RIMS could be a starting point.

Any thoughts, comments, pros/cons?

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Hey HBT,

I've been batch sparging in rectangular cooler MLT's for years. Been wanting to do recirculated mashes and have the ability to do step mashing too so I'm thinking about using RIMMS to get me there.

I think I can envision the setup for this but have been wondering how many might do this same thing already and am hoping for any insight. I'd rather not have to switch to a kettle with false-bottom MLT if using my existing cooler setup is practical. I may do that someday and go all electric, even on my kettle, but for now it seems adding RIMMS could be a starting point.

Any thoughts, comments, pros/cons?

At one time I was thinking the same. I mash in a rectangular cooler too but I do full volume mashes, continuous sparge.

My mash tun has a slotted manifold on the bottom connected to a drain valve. I use a pump to recirculate to a spray head mounted through the cooler lid.

I was thinking I could easily route wort from the bottom valve through a RIMs tube then back through the lid spray head. The RIMs tube has a controlled heating element and temp probe.

I built the RIMs tube but have never tried it. The thought of doing stepped mashes sounded really neat but so far I happy with my brews so I never tried it.

Not much help for you but you're not the only one thinking of it.

 

[Broken Crow]

As long as you have power available:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...383545046725ea3ce!12000035845553886!sh!CA!0!X
...save the heating element for your keg washer and buy a better one with more surface area;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm
and to attach it properly;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/etc3.htm
..and to avoid scorching and get the best temp control;
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53&products_id=769
..if you don't want to build your own controller;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tempcontrol_cube5e_bhcustomb.htm
and then for recirc, you only need a lightwieght pump:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/20-mag-drive-pump.733677/
..you can get all the other SS fittings and tubes from Brewhardware.com
I've used that setup myself with the orange 10G Igloo.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

As long as you have power available:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006120679696.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.0.0.45a0430cYKMqbs&pdp_npi=4@dis!CAD!C$ 98.70!C$ 98.70!!!70.99!70.99!@2103080c17243383545046725ea3ce!12000035845553886!sh!CA!0!X
...save the heating element for your keg washer and buy a better one with more surface area;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm
and to attach it properly;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/etc3.htm
..and to avoid scorching and get the best temp control;
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53&products_id=769
..if you don't want to build your own controller;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tempcontrol_cube5e_bhcustomb.htm
and then for recirc, you only need a lightwieght pump:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/20-mag-drive-pump.733677/
..you can get all the other SS fittings and tubes from Brewhardware.com
I've used that setup myself with the orange 10G Igloo.

Thanks for filling in the blanks!

 

[Broken Crow]

Thanks for filling in the blanks!

Actually, I totally forgot the "Fundamental Rules For Successful RIMS";
-Mount the RIMS tube vertical, or as close to vertical as possible
-Control flow with a valve between the output of the pump and input at the bottom of the RIMS tube
-Mount the temp probe (https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_131_15&products_id=267) at the top
-Use a heating element that has the greatest surface area available (The longer the better)
-Read about why the Auber DSPR320 will not scortch your wort: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/understanding-the-auber-ezboil-dspr-320.699459/

 

[Nagorg]

I'm contemplating this "kit" from Brewers Hardware. Is 120V enough? I'm thinking it is since I only want to control mash temps well below boiling.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/rimspackagetc.htm

 

[Broken Crow]

I'm contemplating this "kit" from Brewers Hardware. Is 120V enough? I'm thinking it is since I only want to control mash temps well below boiling.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/rimspackagetc.htm

brewhardware.com ..Brewers Hardware has a great filter (https://www.brewershardware.com/Wort-Strainers/) but their RIMS parts are a bit pricey, though they do have some nice mounting hardware: https://www.brewershardware.com/RIMS-Tube/
I had considered that particular package myself, but from reading both the reviews on Bobby's site https://www.brewhardware.com/Review...ortBy=RateLow&Search2.x=16&Search2.y=5&Page=1 as well as other online reviews of that controller for RIMS, I decided it required too much babysitting and pussy-footing around and as this is a long term investment, you might as well Buy Once, Cry Once and get something that was specifically designed for the purpose..that being the Auber DSPR units.... Plus; I may be overcautious but I'm just not comfortable with a RIMS tube only 12" long... you'd never fit a Brewers Edition Camco element or the non-rusting Dernoids of equivalent surface-area/wattage-density in there.
This much is of course, just my opinions...others will differ.

 

[Nagorg]

Thanks for the insight. And I meant "Brew Hardware", not "Brewers Hardware". (Sorry Bobby_M lol)

Going with that controller does up the price-point. But I agree on buy once, cry once; to a degree at least!

 

[Broken Crow]

Thanks for the insight. And I meant "Brew Hardware", not "Brewers Hardware". (Sorry Bobby_M lol)

Going with that controller does up the price-point. But I agree on buy once, cry once; to a degree at least!

Given your tenure on this site you must have read through some of the volumes of @doug293cz schematics and advice and have some decent DIY-ability and safety-sense yourself...Have you considered building your own? It really is dead-simple and economical.

 

[Nagorg]

Given your tenure on this site you must have read through some of the volumes of @doug293cz schematics and advice

I cant say I have actually, or not at least recently. Can you point me to any specific posts for reference?

I don't mind DIY, I've done a lot of that actually. But time constraints these days have me favoring pre-built solutions. Cost savings could defiantly make me want to find the time though...

 

[doug293cz]

Given your tenure on this site you must have read through some of the volumes of @doug293cz schematics and advice and have some decent DIY-ability and safety-sense yourself...Have you considered building your own? It really is dead-simple and economical.

I cant say I have actually, or not at least recently. Can you point me to any specific posts for reference?

I don't mind DIY, I've done a lot of that actually. But time constraints these days have me favoring pre-built solutions. Cost savings could defiantly make me want to find the time though...

I have posted many electric brewing control panel designs on HBT over the last few years - from single element (BIAB or stand-alone RIMS) to three element (HLT + RIMS + BK) system controllers. If you think you might want do more electrification than just a RIMS for your MLT, then you should think about where you want to end up, start with a design that is your ultimate goal, size the enclosure to fit all the components you will eventually have, and just populate with the components that you need for the RIMS to start. This will save you money in the long run.

If you want to discuss your plans here, I can post designs that you might want to consider using. If you need something different, I can provide info on modifying my designs, or even do a new design if necessary.

One thing that I consider a "must have" in a RIMS controller is an interlock that will not let the heating element be enabled unless the pump is on. This doesn't require extra components, just knowing how to do the interlock wiring.

Brew on

 

[Nagorg]

Thanks @doug293cz . I honestly don't know where I'm going with this. I just want to control mash temps while circulating, for now at least.

RIMS seems to be more simplified than HERMS since I don't need an HLT.

I'm all ears for suggestions... I see nothing but good recommendations typically on this forum.

For example, is 120V good enough for RIMS or is 240V "better"? I know 240V is what you want for a boil kettle but I'd think 120V should be good for controlling mash temps, but then I honestly don't know for sure.

I hadn't thought about building my own RIMS controller but if it aint that bad and a cheaper way, sounds good to me. I built my own temp controller using an STC-1000 using info from this forum. It's still rocking ~10+ years later.. (knock on wood)

I love the tip about an interlock to make sure the pump is on before allowing the element to fire... Makes perfect sense!

 

[doug293cz]

120V with 1650W - 2000W elements (15A or 20A circuit) is enough for a RIMS to hold mash temps. It might be a bit low powered for step mashing, but should work if you insulate the RIMS tube and hoses so that you don't lose too much heat in the recirc plumbing. I would recommend an Auber EZBoil as the controller brains, due to the short pulse times compared to typical PWM. With a RIMS, the shorter the cycle time, the less chance you have of overheating or scorching the wort. Which model of EZBoil to use will depend on whether you want to be able to pre-program and automatically time your steps, or are OK with changing the setpoint temperature manually (controller still ramps and controls automatically to setpoint.)

Brew on

 

[Nagorg]

I've got 240V where I brew. Sounds like this is the way... Guess I need to start figuring stuff out. I am definitely interested in mash re-circulation and step mashing.

Watch me wind up with an electric MLT and boil kettle before I get to RIMS.

Thanks for the info @doug293cz !

 

[James_AZ]

+1 for Auber EZBoil. I’ve been brewing with a RIMS 3500W 220V for a year now. RIMS tube from Bobby, the TC clamps have nuts welded on them which makes it pretty easy to mount the tube vertically. I built an Auber controller kit. I can raise temp straight in one pass from 148 to 165F.

When i’m done mashing I unplug the RIMS element and then plug the cord into my 5500W element in the BK. Switch the EZBoil to boil mode and use the same controller. The controller has pretty slick boil over protection.

Pretty sure you’ll love it.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I've got 240V where I brew. Sounds like this is the way... Guess I need to start figuring stuff out. I am definitely interested in mash re-circulation and step mashing.

Watch me wind up with an electric MLT and boil kettle before I get to RIMS.

Thanks for the info @doug293cz !

The possibilities are endless. Ideas start out simple then morph into big projects. I have experienced many and have enjoyed every one of them!

 

[Nagorg]

Man, looks like I'd be looking at roughly north of 2K for a (Spike) 30G electric kettle and HLT plus that Auber Cube controller and whatever else I'd need... Probably will be a while before I bite off that much.

Meanwhile I'll keep looking at RIMS while I continue to batch sparge in my cooler for the time being.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Man, looks like I'd be looking at roughly north of 2K for a (Spike) 30G electric kettle and HLT plus that Auber Cube controller and whatever else I'd need... Probably will be a while before I bite off that much.

Meanwhile I'll keep looking at RIMS while I continue to batch sparge in my cooler for the time being.

You could scout around for some used items and build pieces yourself if you feel comfortable doing so. And nothing wrong continuing as you are.

 

[UdonPete]

As long as you have power available:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006120679696.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.0.0.45a0430cYKMqbs&pdp_npi=4@dis!CAD!C$ 98.70!C$ 98.70!!!70.99!70.99!@2103080c17243383545046725ea3ce!12000035845553886!sh!CA!0!X
...save the heating element for your keg washer and buy a better one with more surface area;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm
and to attach it properly;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/etc3.htm
..and to avoid scorching and get the best temp control;
https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53&products_id=769
..if you don't want to build your own controller;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tempcontrol_cube5e_bhcustomb.htm
and then for recirc, you only need a lightwieght pump:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/20-mag-drive-pump.733677/
..you can get all the other SS fittings and tubes from Brewhardware.com
I've used that setup myself with the orange 10G Igloo.

My exact set up - except I use an Inkbird PID : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...T9rUQ2H0&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:

 

[Broken Crow]

Man, looks like I'd be looking at roughly north of 2K for a (Spike) 30G electric kettle and HLT plus that Auber Cube controller and whatever else I'd need... Probably will be a while before I bite off that much.

Meanwhile I'll keep looking at RIMS while I continue to batch sparge in my cooler for the time being.

I'm wondering why you are looking at new gear (apart from the obvious high-quality eye-candy element). Since you mention you have 240V where you brew, just start out with an Auber-based RIMS unit which. like @James_AZ does does, you can swap the RIMS to the BK once you gradually add elements to your existing pots. You can plan and do it slowly and if you don't want to permanently mount an element in your current BK, just use a TC bulkhead/element combo; https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/etc4wl.htm
Just thowin stuff out there.

 

[ITV]

I'm contemplating this "kit" from Brewers Hardware. Is 120V enough? I'm thinking it is since I only want to control mash temps well below boiling.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/rimspackagetc.htm

I have that setup and I can maintain my mash temps within 1 deg. F.
I started out using a cooler mash tun but recently upgraded to a SS mash tun.
The advantage is that the RIMs is independent of my other brewing equipement allowing for equipment upgrades while maintaining the RIMS.
The disadvantage of a RIMS system is that a minimum flow is needed to prevent a scorched mash.

 

[Nagorg]

The disadvantage of a RIMS system is that a minimum flow is needed to prevent a scorched mash.

I have noted these flow concerns. I'm assuming that a typical gravity flow from my cooler MLT located higher than the pump feeding RIMS tube should be fine. Barring any stuck flow or the sort anyway...

Also for sparging, I guess I would just switch the in-flow over to my HLT so that the pump now feeds the RIMS with sparge water right? I'd then be fly sparging out of my cooler.

Is that correct?

 

[ITV]

I have noted these flow concerns. I'm assuming that a typical gravity flow from my cooler MLT located higher than the pump feeding RIMS tube should be fine. Barring any stuck flow or the sort anyway...

Also for sparging, I guess I would just switch the in-flow over to my HLT so that the pump now feeds the RIMS with sparge water right? I'd then be fly sparging out of my cooler.

Is that correct?

Correct, that is how I do it.
For piece of mind I start my pump with the heating element off until the temperature in the mash tun stabilizes and then turn on the heating element.
On the flip side I shut off the heating element and let the pump run for another 5 minutes to help prevent scorching of the heating element.

Another pro is that step mashes are easily accomplished.

 

[Broken Crow]

While I was building out my long-planned (and now abandoned in favour of BIAB) 3V rig, I chose a 3-way T-flow valve https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/3wvalvet.htm to attach the MT/pump/HLT... I'd always planned to keep the HLT elevated for gravity-assist anyway and always intended to underlet my strike water. The pump requirements for recirc of the mash are minimal and the MP-15RM (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/20-mag-drive-pump.733677/) or a Topsflo TD-5 (https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/topsfloss.htm) are perfectly suited to the task. An L-flow 3-way valve https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/3wvalvel.htm on the pumps output can switch between the RIMS, and the path to the BK.
Just sayin'

 

[cfrazier77]

I used a 120 volt rims tube with 10 gallon drinking cooler with a false bottom. It worked great with a 2000 watt element. I now use a keggle mashtun wrapped in reflectix and a 5500 watt 240 element at 120 volts for 1375 watts. I can hold easy and still do step mashes I can raise a 10 gallon mash at just under a minute per degree.

Your design will need to be able to flow at a decent rate to not scorch your wort though.

 

[James_AZ]

I have noted these flow concerns. I'm assuming that a typical gravity flow from my cooler MLT located higher than the pump feeding RIMS tube should be fine. Barring any stuck flow or the sort anyway...

Also for sparging, I guess I would just switch the in-flow over to my HLT so that the pump now feeds the RIMS with sparge water right? I'd then be fly sparging out of my cooler.

Is that correct?

My pump is below the drain of my mash tun, my RIMS tube is mounted vertical. My temp sensor for the RIMS is about 1” from the end of my element. With the EZBoil, I have not scorched the wort/element. The EZBoil with the Auber RTD temp sensors and vertical mount are very low probability of scorching. I run the pump for a few minutes before turning the element on. With the EZboil you can also set the max percentage for the element. When I first started, for holding temp, i’d put the element at 25%, now I leave my 3500W element at 100% throughout the whole mash.

For sparging, i turn off the element and connect the out of my HLT to the in of my pump and pump the sparge water through the RIMS tube. Helps get a head start on cleaning the RIMS and makes for an easy config change.

 

[Nagorg]

What would the advantage be (other than cost) for building my own controller -vs- buying this one from brewhardware.com?

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tempcontrol_cube5e_bhcustomb.htm

I'm guessing maybe having the option to add additional PID's and such if I ever expanded maybe? I see I can buy that cube from Auber but there's a lot of "options", most I don't feel knowledgeable enough right now to sort through.

Also, assuming that I decided to buy that cube from Brewhardware.com, is that one good to go? What else would I need besides a RIMS tube and element?

Can someone point me to an ideal RIMS tube and element? (and anything else I'd need..) I already have a pump and a 240v power source...

 

[Broken Crow]

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/rims18_npt.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500.htm or
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element2200.htm
..reading through the whole page is useful though, @Bobby_M included pics and a chart of ramp times..just keep scrolling down: https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1902.htm
and then the sensor; https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=267 or https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=249 or one of the ones with heavier cables and plugs

 

[James_AZ]

Here’s what I have:
Triclamp RTD with 2.36”probe, and XLRCON plug (if you go Auber Cube you’ll need XLRCON plug for temp):
Auber Temp Probe
TC 18” RIMS with camlock I/O (i use camlocks, but get the I/O for what ever you use to connect hoses in your brewery). Delete Hotpot and use a TC Element, way easier to clean. from BrewHardware
3500W TC Element from BrewHardware
The 2.36” probe is perfect fit for the 18” Rims tube and 3500W TC element.

I think the Auber brewcube would be fine. I’d get the 320, also looks like there is TC probe option. May want to check with Bobby on the probe length.

 

[ITV]

Going back to your original post about using a RIMS with a cooler MLT, below are some photos of my original MLT (10 gallon Home Depot) and my current MLT (15 gallon Megapot) that I have been using sucessfully for years. I installed a thermowell in the MLT with a spare inkbird to display the temperature inside the MLT. I underlet the strike water to the MLT and start the recirc pump with the heater off. It takes about 15 minutes for the temperature readings to stabilize at which point I turn the heating element on. With the 120V inkbird PID controller/RIMS system, I can get 1 deg. F per minute rise which is sufficient for mashing, I use a natural gas burner for my boil kettle.

 

[Nagorg]

Thanks for the illustration @ITV .

A question about using a cooler MLT with RIMS, I'm assuming that you have a false bottom in yours. Since I have rectangular cooler MLT(s) I use a copper manifold with slits cut in it that face the bottom of the cooler.

Any concerns for adequate flow into the RIMS from this type of setup instead of a false bottom? I can post a pic if needed for clarity.

 

[ITV]

Thanks for the illustration @ITV .

A question about using a cooler MLT with RIMS, I'm assuming that you have a false bottom in yours. Since I have rectangular cooler MLT(s) I use a copper manifold with slits cut in it that face the bottom of the cooler.

Any concerns for adequate flow into the RIMS from this type of setup instead of a false bottom? I can post a pic if needed for clarity.

I use a bazooka screen in the bottom of my MLT, I also have a rectangular cooler (with a bazooka screen) that I used for high gravity batches, which I haven't needed since upgrading to a 15 gallon MLT, with success.

WIth receipes using flaked oats or wheat, I use rice hulls to prevent stuck sparges as well as adding water to adjust the mash thickness for proper recirc flow.

By doing an initial recirc with the heating element off, I can adjust the pump flow (via pump discharge valve) or add additional strike water, to verify any issues with a stuck mash before turning on the heating element.

 

[Broken Crow]

Thanks for the illustration @ITV .

A question about using a cooler MLT with RIMS, I'm assuming that you have a false bottom in yours. Since I have rectangular cooler MLT(s) I use a copper manifold with slits cut in it that face the bottom of the cooler.

Any concerns for adequate flow into the RIMS from this type of setup instead of a false bottom? I can post a pic if needed for clarity.

The flow is the flow, wether a FB or the popular DIY slit tubing. I might be paranoid having read a couple hundred or so user accounts of the many systems and options available, but really: My paranoia of scorched wort was assuaged by a parameter you only get in the Auber DSPR units. ...Not trying to diss other controllers, but for the paranoid, there really is no other option.
Really; Read this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/understanding-the-auber-ezboil-dspr-320.699459/ and you'll probably choose it even if it does cost a bit more. Bright side is that Bobby includes it as standard in the Cube he sells.
Just my 2 cents

 

[Broken Crow]

I had more thoughts..sorry..
If you're trying to take economical baby-steps while investing for the long run; Sure: Buy the Inkbird controller for now..In future you can reassign it to HLT duty after you have more time and cash to upgrade to the Auber unit (DIY or bought)..it'll give you some leeway and experience with it, but please: Do get the 5500W element and 18" RIMS tube from the get-go; You can later add a TC bulkhead https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15wlf.htm to your existing BK and when you're done the mash, you can pull out the element, move it to your BK and use the same element/controller for the boil.
I was paranoid about scorching, so I simply chose to start with the Auber.
Just food for thought.