Anyone Use Kolsch Yeast For IPA??

[hbhudy]

Has anyone used Kolsch yeast for an IPA? Any idea what this yeast would do with a regular 1065ish-OG 65ish-IBU IPA? Thinking the clean feel would help make the hops even more pronounced..

Has anyone done this? I have an IPA coming up soon in the schedule and want to stray if anyone has done this or had experience with how this yeast works..

Cheers
HB

 

[Powers]

it would technically be an IPL if you made the switch ....i like my IPAs to have ale characteristics personally, but sounds like an interesting experiment

 

[Old_E]

it would technically be an IPL if you made the switch ....i like my IPAs to have ale characteristics personally, but sounds like an interesting experiment

Kolsch yeast is ale yeast.

I just used some to brew KingbrianI's Caramel amber ale. i will let you know on that in a couple of weeks.

 

[Powers]

well well, you learn something new everyday. my buddy made a kolsch which he lagered, so i had just assumed lager yeast was used. but i see now that you use ale yeast and lager afterwards. ahh, the dangers of assumption

 

[Beezer94]

In one of the Odell IPA threads someone said that Odell uses a German ale yeast in their IPA. I don't see why it wouldn't work either way since for instance WLP029 German Ale/Kolsch yeast says it accentuates hop flavor.

and from a reviewer on White Labs site...

" ... massive hop aroma ... "
By: j_snook
Date: May 19, 2010
Beers Brewed: American IPA
Comments: Already reviewed this strain for Kölsch. Used it recently in an IPA and it was fantastic. Made an American IPA on a grist of 2-row, crystal and Munich malts and lots of high-alpha American hops. The resulting beer has massive hop aroma from the late additions, as well as pronounced bitterness. Finish is crisp. Attenuation was excellent as always with this strain. Someone asked below in a review how this would work for IPA which gave me the idea to try this, and I would say this strain is just as good a choice as 001 when you want a clean flavor profile and to highlight hops. Very versatile strain since you can also use it to focus on the malts in styles like Kolsch. Very little yeast-derived flavor in the IPA fermented at 67dF.

 

[steinsato]

well well, you learn something new everyday. my buddy made a kolsch which he lagered, so i had just assumed lager yeast was used. but i see now that you use ale yeast and lager afterwards. ahh, the dangers of assumption

It's perfectly normal to lager with Kolsch yeast after the primary. Your buddy knew what he was doing. Kolsch likes to ferment in primary in the upper 50's to 60 degrees then lager when it's finished for atleast a month. That's how I do my Kolsch's anyway.

 

[pulptastic]

I believe it was an episode of brew strong where they compared a pale ale brewed with various yeasts and Kolsch was actually the favorite. I will be trying something like this.

 

[steinsato]

I'll be doing a Berliner Weisse with Kolsch yeast next weekend.

 

[hbhudy]

OK....OK...Okkkkkkk...
It's an all go for the KOLSCH IPA.. I have a new IPA combo I wanted to explore and this will help add yet another variable into it.. I will keep the thread updated if folks want to hear how it goes.. Anyone interested in hearing the progress? I really do not want to keep a thread running just for me.

 

[Beezer94]

Never hurts to update. The more knowledge shared, the more that is available to the rest of the world.

 

[hbhudy]

Cool..
I will be brewing this in about a week or so. I want to leverage the cold closet in my bathroom (around 60*).

 

[steinsato]

I'm interested. I have lots of kolsch yeast and need new ways to use it up

 

[fastricky]

I've done it, it works really really well.

 

[hbhudy]

Good to know fastricky.
Did you have any sulphur carry over? it is my understanding the kolsch will give off a far amount of sulphur aroma when fermenting.

 

[marc06]

I've never used it in an IPA, but I use the WLP027 for my RIS and it turns out fantastic. I like the idea of using it in an IPA, I am brewing a kolsch next weekend and will have a nice yeast cake!

 

[ghpeel]

It was Basic Brewing Radio that did a Pale Ale Shoot Out with 6 different yeasts and Kolsch came in as a surprisingly good choice. It's very neutral and delivers a nice crisp finish. Sulfur disappears with a little aging. Never been a problem for me.

 

[krumb]

I've never used it in an IPA, but I use the WLP027 for my RIS and it turns out fantastic. I like the idea of using it in an IPA, I am brewing a kolsch next weekend and will have a nice yeast cake!

Doing the same thing this weekend.

Any updates? How'd it turn out?

 

[hbhudy]

Turned out AMAZING.. I fermented on the cool/cold side for the yeast and it was almost like what I think a lager IPA would taste like.

 

[badhabit]

If you want that faint floral finish in your IPA I would think the Kolsch yeast would be fine as long as you keep the fermentation temps "lager like". The other thought is that the level pof bittering will overpower any of the more subtle charactoristics of the Kolsch yeast and you end up with a pretty clean end product. Sounds like fun checking it out. I have become as much a Kolsch fan for summer consumption as I am for IPA/APA and British Bitters.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

I've done a few Kolsch IPAs when that was the only yeast I had on hand. I used the Lakewalk recipe I found here (Simcoe/Amarillo). It tasted great at both ale and near lagering temps (50's). I never met an IPA I didn't like.

 

[Boy]

Bump for info. Double Mountain Brewery in Hood River, OR uses two house strains for all of their beers. Both are modified but they use a German Kolsch strain primarily and a Belgium ale strain they refer to as Rochefort. I've had a few of their beers and must say that their hoppy beers really stand out as fresh hops and crisp finish.

 

[headspace]

I just did with amazing results: one of those 'best beer ever' beers:

Extreme hop aroma, not super bitter, malts the way I wanted, but to my astonishment, that wine-like-apple-but-not-fruity kolsch flavor just shines INTENESLY right up through it all. I kept hearing that one wrong step and that kolsch flavor would just be lost and I'm happy to report that that's absolutely not true.

This recipe does keep things on the light and dry side and, hop-wise, more aromatic than bitter. Would love to know of other 'west coast' hop combinations that people find work w/ Kolsch flavors.



Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 7.00 gal
Boil Size: 9.78 gal
Boil Time: 75 min
Efficiency: 82.00 %

Est Original Gravity: 1.070 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.4 %
Bitterness: 69.8 IBUs (as per BeerSmith -- tastes more like 58-60)
Est Color: 6.8 SRM


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 2.9 %
6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 35.3 %
5 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 29.4 %
2 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 11.8 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 8.8 %
8.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 6 2.9 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.9 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 8 2.9 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 9 2.9 %
1 tblspoon Caraffa III (for orange tint)
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 75.0 min Hop 10 20.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - First Wort 75.0 min Hop 11 20.2 IBUs
1.20 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 12 -
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 13 8.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 45.0 min Hop 14 5.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 45.0 min Hop 15 7.4 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 45.0 min Hop 16 8.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [35.49 ml] Yeast 17 -
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
Mash Profile

Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps

Protein Rest 130.0 F 15 min
Saccharification 145.0 F 50 min
Sacc Final 158.0 F 20 min
Mash Out 164

Mash: Been doing the above -- protein rest is in hopes for clarity given the wheat used. Results are super clear -- don't know if it's this or not but it's easy enough to do.

Whirlpool: is at 165

Ferment: ferment at 61 and then bump up daily when things slow
Dry hop: 3 days starting after high krausen and then rack off

I'm suspecting the dry hopping for 3 days starting after high krausen keeps the bigger, vegetative hop flavors out and probably helps the yeast flavors come through.

 

[Mainer]

Just practicing a little threat-necromancy here. Has anybody tried this? An IPA brewed with Kolsch yeast? I'm looking to try it this weekend, with a little flaked wheat and flaked oats.

Basically, I thought the low flocculation would help me get that hazy, NEIPA look and soft mouthfeel without resorting to whirlfloc. Plus the missus doesn't like really dry IPAs, so I thought the low attenuation would give me a little residual sweetness to balance the hops. (I'm using 1 oz Galena full boil, 3 oz crystal at flameout, and 2 oz Falconer's Flight dry.)

Any thoughts and/or advice?

 

[m00ps]

Just practicing a little threat-necromancy here. Has anybody tried this? An IPA brewed with Kolsch yeast? I'm looking to try it this weekend, with a little flaked wheat and flaked oats.

Basically, I thought the low flocculation would help me get that hazy, NEIPA look and soft mouthfeel without resorting to whirlfloc. Plus the missus doesn't like really dry IPAs, so I thought the low attenuation would give me a little residual sweetness to balance the hops. (I'm using 1 oz Galena full boil, 3 oz crystal at flameout, and 2 oz Falconer's Flight dry.)

Any thoughts and/or advice?

Residual sweetness is bad in IPAs. It will clash with the hop character. I wouldnt use a kolsch yeast due the low attenuation levels.

I think she is confusing dryness with bitterness. Ive made a lot of IPAs/saisons which are close to 1.000, but still give an impression of sweet fruity character.

Your SWMBO sounds like 90% of the casual beer drinkers when I hand them an IPA. They just "dont like IPAs". But in reality, they just dont like boil additions. If you cut the bittering addition to 1/2, or even 1/4, she'll be able to enjoy it. In my over-the-top hoppy beers, I've started not adding a single addition until 20min from flameout.

side note, I wouldnt use crystal for an IPA. Its got barely any appreciable hop character compared to something like the falconer's flight blend

 

[steinsato]

What makes you think kolsch yeast has low attenuation? Wyeast lists it as 73 to 77% which is the same as the American Ale strain. I certainly wouldn't call kolsch a low attenuated beer. It finishes around 1.010

I would think it would be an ok substitute to American Ale yeast, I don't think the "kolsch" flavors from the yeast will be that noticeable since they'll be masked by all the hops in an ipa. I've brewed lots of kolsch and find that it is a slow and steady fermenter, I would be sure to give your ipa at least 2 weeks in primary.

 

[Mainer]

What makes you think kolsch yeast has low attenuation? Wyeast lists it as 73 to 77% which is the same as the American Ale strain. I certainly wouldn't call kolsch a low attenuated beer. It finishes around 1.010

I would think it would be an ok substitute to American Ale yeast, I don't think the "kolsch" flavors from the yeast will be that noticeable since they'll be masked by all the hops in an ipa. I've brewed lots of kolsch and find that it is a slow and steady fermenter, I would be sure to give your ipa at least 2 weeks in primary.

Well, in my last couple brews I've used Saflager S-23, which is somewhere around 80-85%, and a Nottingham Ale strain that was somewhere around 85-90% attenuation. So 73-77% sounded pretty low in comparison. Everything's relative, I guess.

Either way, the cellar where I ferment is around 55-60 degrees this time of year, so the Kolsch seems more convenient, with the low floc I'm looking for, and a low-enough attenuation.

 

[Mainer]

Residual sweetness is bad in IPAs. It will clash with the hop character. I wouldnt use a kolsch yeast due the low attenuation levels.

I think she is confusing dryness with bitterness. Ive made a lot of IPAs/saisons which are close to 1.000, but still give an impression of sweet fruity character.

Your SWMBO sounds like 90% of the casual beer drinkers when I hand them an IPA. They just "dont like IPAs". But in reality, they just dont like boil additions. If you cut the bittering addition to 1/2, or even 1/4, she'll be able to enjoy it. In my over-the-top hoppy beers, I've started not adding a single addition until 20min from flameout.

side note, I wouldnt use crystal for an IPA. Its got barely any appreciable hop character compared to something like the falconer's flight blend

We've both enjoyed a lot of beers we've had with Crystal, including a single-hop DIPA called Crystal Persuasion by a local brewery, SoMe. That one uses Crystal as a late addition, dry, and even for bittering, which seemed a bizarre to me, but really seems to work. The low-alpha, high-beta character of Crystal gives it a nice, challenging complexity as the beer ages. Not that any IPA is something I'd want to cellar long, but it makes it interesting.

I'm not sure, though, whether pairing that with a citrusy Alpha bomb blend like Falconer's is counter-productive.

 

[Mainer]

Well, I did it. I pitched a pale ale with Kolsch yeast and Crystal hops. We'll see how it turns out. The color looks like it'll be great, a nice hazy golden-orange. The smell off the airlock isn't overly hoppy yet, but should improve once I pitch the dry hops in secondary. But you're right, it probably won't properly be an IPA. More of a hybrid.

 

[rhys333]

I'm on a kolsch kick lately and I think I'm going to big it up and do an IPA version. Traditional ingredients, just 2 Row and about 5% vienna to 6.5% abv, with a heavy dose of late addition hallertauer. Btw, I get 84% attenuation with a 149F mash. I ferment at warmer ale temps too and it works great.

 

[Redtab78]

Well, I did it. I pitched a pale ale with Kolsch yeast and Crystal hops. We'll see how it turns out. The color looks like it'll be great, a nice hazy golden-orange. The smell off the airlock isn't overly hoppy yet, but should improve once I pitch the dry hops in secondary. But you're right, it probably won't properly be an IPA. More of a hybrid.

a bit old here, but what was the outcome of this?

 

[Mainer]

a bit old here, but what was the outcome of this?

It wasn't bad. Really juicy citrus. I don't think the yeast made a big difference to the taste, more to the mouthfeel. It had kind of a soft, hazy Northeast IPA mouthfeel. I'm not sure the Kolsch yeast helped the recipe very much, but it certainly didn't hurt any.

 

[masonsjax]

I have brewed many many beers of all styles with Kölsch yeast, probably over 100 batches. I considered it my house yeast for years. It is fantastic for just about every style that can use a clean fermenting yeast. It's a rock solid performer that never has disappointed me once. Definitely my favorite yeast for IPAs. Everyone should experiment with it.

 

[Redtab78]

I have brewed many many beers of all styles with Kölsch yeast, probably over 100 batches. I considered it my house yeast for years. It is fantastic for just about every style that can use a clean fermenting yeast. It's a rock solid performer that never has disappointed me once. Definitely my favorite yeast for IPAs. Everyone should experiment with it.

so now I pose the question....do you prefer the Wyeat, or the White Labs? Also, have you tried the Wyeast Kolsch II?

 

[masonsjax]

I think it was the white labs one I bought. I culture store and reuse yeast endlessly. As far as I know, they're both the same strain though. Haven't tried Kolsch II.

 

[Mainer]

Your SWMBO sounds like 90% of the casual beer drinkers when I hand them an IPA. They just "dont like IPAs". But in reality, they just dont like boil additions. If you cut the bittering addition to 1/2, or even 1/4, she'll be able to enjoy it. In my over-the-top hoppy beers, I've started not adding a single addition until 20min from flameout.

Bringing this back because it's taken me this long to figure out my SWMBO's beer tastes. It's not that she doesn't like boil additions. Rather the opposite, actually. She *likes* the bitter, resinous notes of early boil additions. But she can't stand the citrusy character of late kettle and dry hop additions. For me, early additions can sometimes be too bitter, but late additions come off sweeter, lighter, and fruitier. She's the total opposite though. I did a DIPA with a couple ounces of high-alpha CTZ early in the boil, and for me it was a little rugged, but she didn't mind at all. But when I did an APA with a couple ounces of Falconer's Flight dry, she just couldn't handle it. Very strange.

 

[MXDXD]

WLP029 is great for.... Just about any "Pale" beer.
Just be careful with the boil additions (it conveys bitterness REALLY well...), and cold condition/extend cold crash/gelatin if you're bottling.