Anyone have a REAL lion's stout clone?

[Revvy]

Excellent! Looks interesting for sure.

Thanks, we'll see. This is usually for me the hardest part of trying to come up with a clone. Seeing how the initial recipe meshes with the actual. It may be two or god knows how many versions til I get a true "clone."

But the thing is, if I get a stout I like with this recipe, then it may never get to a "clone.' It may just be a homage to a Sri Lankin, Stout.

I guess since this is a hybrid of Lion and Dragon Stout, then it would be a Chimera Stout, eh?

 

[JetSmooth]

I guess since this is a hybrid of Lion and Dragon Stout, then it would be a Chimera Stout, eh?

Brilliant!! Love the name.

I've yet to do a stout but this is sounding like a definite thread to watch.

 

[Revvy]

Looky Looky what I got.

Got me 2.2 pounds of Jaggery, and a 6 ounce bottle of Date Palm Treacle Syrup. They also had Date Palm Molasses, but I figured the syrup was less intense.

I am now condisdering priming the stout with either or both of those at bottling time. I would just need to figure the sugar content of the stuff.

 

[BBBF]

Please update this if you can, it's my GFs favorite beer and I love it too. Their bottles are my favorite also . I can almost bottle an entire batch in Lion Stout bottles now hah.

Thanks!

I saved up so many Lion Stout bottles when I was getting into homebrewing, only the have my box break open and all the bottles get destroyed. It was a sad day.

Revvy, good luck with your recipe. I love this beer and hope you come up with a good clone.

 

[Revvy]

I'm planning to bottle it this weekend. Here's a possible label design.

There will be text on the right on it's side so that's why it is off center. I forgot about the above picture...but this looks cool.

 

[theStranger44]

Thanks for the thread Revvy.
just joined up on HBT the other day & was thinking maybe I could find some info on brewing a Lion clone when lo & behold your post is the first I see today.
Can't wait to hear about the outcome.

 

[jkahrs595]

I am also excited to see the results from this brew (one of my favorites, and only $4.99/6-pack at my corner store). On a side note, never try Lion Imperial. It's absolutely disgusting, and tastes like malt liquor.

 

[Revvy]

Here's some info on how I am going to prime it this weekend.

The October 2010 Basic Brewing radio was all about alternative priming methods, and the guest (who btw, although he is a minister, from michigan, and is an expert on bottling, is NOT ME, but the coincidence is freaky) offers info on calculating how to prime with strange things.

I figured out the calculation for using Jaggery Mollasses from Bangladesh to prime my Sri-lankin stout.

October 28, 2010 - Alternate Priming Sugars
Home brewer Drew Filkins shares his technique of using alternative ingredients to put the bubbles in his brew.

Click to Listen-Mp3

Hydrometer readings and sugar content charts from HomeWinemaking.com http://www.home-winemaking.com/winemaking-2b.html

Basically what you need to do is look for the sugar or carbhydrate amount in the syrup and the serving size, they are defining it by.

You also want to first calculate how much corn sugar you would normally use to carb to whatever style you are aiming for, then convert that to grams. Then based on the amount of sugar (OR CARBOHYDRATES if sugars is not listed, which on some products labels they don't) per whatever serving size they give, you then will know how much of the stuff to use..


Ie, my stout I want to carb to 2.45 volumes of co2, which measures out to 4.3 oz of corn sugar at 70 degrees.

That works out to 121.9 grams....

I found online via google, that the Jaggery mollasses contains 12 grams of sugar/tablespoon. So to get to 122 grams I need about 11 tablespoons.

That works our to about 5/8 of a cup. I will add that to enough water to get to 2 cups and boil it.

Listen to the podcast for a better explantaion..

If you CAN'T find any nutritional info (which by law I thought it has to be posted somethwere) you're going to have to fudge it...you can treat it as mollasses, or honey and use the recommended measurment. I have a chart in my bottling thread that shows honey, maple sugar et al.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/#post1030376

 

[Tiamat]

get a chance to try one of these yet? Lion's been one of my favorites for quite a few years now. would love to be able to make my own.

 

[Revvy]

get a chance to try one of these yet? Lion's been one of my favorites for quite a few years now. would love to be able to make my own.

No, I'm not even going to crack one til middle of next week, hoping it will be ready by Christmas, but I doubt it.

 

[Revvy]

Well I decided to do a preliminary tasting today. And it's starting to carb, but not much yet, and it is pretty green. But it's got a nice flavor. I don't know if it's going to end up being close to a lion's clone, BUT it's a nice stout.

I'll need to let in carb and condition before doing a side by side. And I think I might want to to decrease the lactose. But I like it. Hopefully in a week it will be carbed enough to serve a few on x-mas.

 

[Obelix]

So?

Just finished the last of the Sierra Nevada Stout clone from Clone Brews. It turned out great and now I am thinking of trying a Tropical Stout. How did your recipe turn out?

Thanks for the thread.

 

[Revvy]

I'm still letting them condition.

 

[Revvy]

I guess I should update this. If you don't prime like I did with the mollases I think this is a pretty good start. I won't say it's dead on (it would take a few more tweaky batches to get it there.) But it is close, it's a tasty stout without a lot of the roastiness of a typical FE stout, just like Lion's.

Priming it with the mollases worked perfectly. I got the right level of carbonation, BUT I'm not a huge fan of the in your face date sweetness from the mollases. It's good but the unfermentables in the mollases make it kinda sweet up front. I like it, but it's not Lion's in that way. I'm hoping some of the sweetness will balance out as the beer conditions.

A lot of folks like the beer so-far so I'm happy.

 

[Tiamat]

thanks for the update. MmmMmm good.

 

[ButterSandwich]

Heres' the Dragon Stout recipe from Clone brews.

Grains
9.75 pounds American Pale Malt (6-Row)
2.25 pounds Flaked Maize
1.00 pounds Crystal Malt 120L
0.50 pounds British Chocolate Malt
0.30 pounds British Black Patent Malt
0.15 pounds British Roasted Barley
0.50 pounds Brown Sugar (Dark)
1.50 pounds Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
0.35 ounces Magnum @ 60 minutes
WYEAST California Lager 2112 — Liquid

* Mash grains at 155 with 4.6 gallons for 60 minues.
* Vorlauf for last 15 mins.
* Sparge with 5 gallons at 172
* Collect 6.75 gallons
* Boil 90 minutes
* Hops at 60
* Irish moss at 10
* Cool and pitch
* Ferment low 60's.

Has anyone had both Dragon and Lion that can give a good comparison?

Unfortunately, I've only had the dragon stout, but do you think this would be easy to convert to an extract recipe?

 

[Revvy]

I brought a bunch of my beer, meads and apfelwein to our Natl homebrew day big brew and people absolutely loved this beer- It was brewed back in November there. People really liked the flavors from the date palm mollases that I primed with. One of the guys in our group, who's a bjcp judge actually told me it was one of his favorite brews of mine that he's had.

 

[Cold Country Brewery]

I brought a bunch of my beer, meads and apfelwein to our Natl homebrew day big brew and people absolutely loved this beer- It was brewed back in November there. People really liked the flavors from the date palm mollases that I primed with. One of the guys in our group, who's a bjcp judge actually told me it was one of his favorite brews of mine that he's had.

Did the in your face sweetness from the mollases mellow over the last 5 months?

 

[Revvy]

Did the in your face sweetness from the mollases mellow over the last 5 months?

It did somewhat. But everyone who tastes it likes that flavor. I personally still don't know that I'd prime with it...or I would use less and suppliment the remainder with standard priming sugar.

 

[bill42]

Lion stout is a bit tough b/c 1) its on the other side of the world and 2) there is really no solid information on it. The numbers are easy enough to come up with and the ingredients are pretty standard for all tropical stouts. All the clone recipes I've seen for Lion are usually quite wrong. They use too much malt, not enough sugar and defintely too much roast malt.

Have you ever had the Jamaican Dragon stout? Its quite similar. A little smoother and lower in alcohol. That one I have a sure replication of since i visitied the brewery. Its a good one to start with as you can add any sort of roastier flavors you want. If you like I can manipulate it and give you my best guess at a Lion clone. I've done a few before and can see with what I come up with, yeah?

can you post the jamaican dragon stout recipe?

 

[Revvy]

can you post the jamaican dragon stout recipe?

You mean other than the one that is quoted 3 posts above yours, as well as several other versions at the beginning of this thread?

 

[bill42]

You mean other than the one that is quoted 3 posts above yours, as well as several other versions at the beginning of this thread?

I mean Kris's version, the one where he quotes " sure replication of since i visitied the brewery"

 

[emjay]

Hey Revvy,

If you read this, did you end up going with the lactose? I'm using a slightly tweaked version of Kris' recipe, fermenting right now, and will be adding lactose, burnt sugar, and a couple pounds of toasted coconut, before getting racked to a used rum barrel for some rum flavor and (hopefully) a very subtle touch of oak, and I'm wondering what you think about the lactose - was planning to add a half pound.

 

[Apendecto]

Well, it's been a while. Any new info? Did it mellow into perfection? Try any other recipes?

I'm also in the Detroitish area. Where did you get some of this stuff?

Thanks for having the only decent drive on this beer on the entire internet.

 

[BBBF]

Trying my hand at this beer has been on my To Do List ever since Revvy started this thread. It is amazing that it has been one of my next beers all this time. I picked up some jaggery and kithul treacle today. I was excited to see where the treacle is from.

 

[Witherby]

Reviving this thread because my homebrew club is having quarterly competitions on some of the new styles in the 2015 BJCP style guide and the next style we have chosen is tropical stout. And BYO now has Kristen England's Dragon Stout recipe on their website (buried in his article on using debittered black malt) and this thread is frankly the most useful thing on the internets about tropical stout so I thought I would help close the loop:
https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1671-debittered-black-malt

I'm not sure I will even like the beer, but I am thinking I will set aside one gallon of the beer for the competition and turn the rest of the batch into a mole stout, as tropical stout seems to be the perfect base for that style of beer.

 

[MichaelBrock]

Witherby, did you brew the Dragon Stout clone? I plan on brewing a tropical stout some time soon and, apparently like quite a few others, I'm having some difficulty finding a tested recipe.

 

[Revvy]

Has anyone ever found sinimar?

 

[MichaelBrock]

Has anyone ever found sinimar?

It looks like More Beer, Williams Brewing, and Midwest Supplies all carry a product they refer to as "sinimar".

 

[Witherby]

Witherby, did you brew the Dragon Stout clone? I plan on brewing a tropical stout some time soon and, apparently like quite a few others, I'm having some difficulty finding a tested recipe.

I finally brewed it just last week, so it isn't a tested recipe yet. Here is what I went with for a 3 gallon batch:

7 lb Pale 2-Row (UK)
8 oz Crystal 80L (US)
8 oz De-Bittered Black (BE)
8 oz Flaked Oats
1 lb Piloncillo (Panela) sugar (Boil)
5 oz Lactose (Boil)

0.6 oz Magnum (US) 60 min Boil

English Ale Yeast White Labs WLP002

Kris England said that his recipe often ends up drying out too much, and with all of that sugar in my recipe that was a risk, so my plan was to mash high, add lactose, and use a yeast that isn't super attenuative. It sure smells good!