Mer-man
Well-Known Member
Well to be fair, as you fill the keg with beer the gas is becoming compressed (PV=nRT or something) so you need to relieve pressure to have the desired differential. Not entirely suprising.
Anyone have a Fermentasaurus?
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I guess its just that this is different than doing a pressure transfer via carboy. In that case I would always open the relief valve on the keg and let all the pressure out prior to adding pressure to the carboy. So first time around that is what I did assuming the conical should always have more pressure as the gas in is connected and pumping pressure into the conical. But that does not seem to be the case. So I will make sure going forward that the keg has pressure in it so i can remove some pressure every few minutes manually.
I wonder how this is done when using a SS conical as you can't really see that the transfer has stalled.
I finally tried bottling my carbonated beer straight from the fermentasaurus via a bottling gun. it failed.
My process was a normal ferment with an airlock. I took 6-8 bottles of trub off the bottom and purged the bottle with CO2 before putting them back on. I will try dropping the all the trub into a different vessel next time.
Once fermentation was finished I added dextrose, finings and the pressure lid. this gave me nicely carbonated beer which I had some nice tastes of warm from a picnic tap. I also pressure transferred some into a PET bottle with a carb cap that I could then refrigerate, that was good.
But it all went wrong trying to bottle the warm beer (I don't have a fermentation fridge), the instant it hit the end of the bottling gun as it flowed into the bottle it foamed, to the point that the entire bottles were completely full of foam. I tried different pressures, angles and bottles sizes but nothing worked. So I stopped and will just drink the remainder via picnic tap or the PET carb cap.
Next time I will add the dextrose and bottle immediately, so the carbonation occurs in the bottle.
The method of not transferring and being able to clear the beer in the fermenter has lead to a MUCH better beer for me. I used to transfer the beer 3 times (Primary to Secondary, Secondary to bottling bucket, bucket to bottle) each time exposing it to more o2 and I was having to compensate for this by using ever increasing amounts of hops, never really getting the juicy aroma I love. This beer has turned out spectacular and actually has too many hops! (at least for style)
I love the fermentasaurus but will still keep tweaking my process to get the best out of it.
My process was a normal ferment with an airlock. I took 6-8 bottles of trub off the bottom and purged the bottle with CO2 before putting them back on. I will try dropping the all the trub into a different vessel next time.
Once fermentation was finished I added dextrose, finings and the pressure lid. this gave me nicely carbonated beer which I had some nice tastes of warm from a picnic tap. I also pressure transferred some into a PET bottle with a carb cap that I could then refrigerate, that was good.
But it all went wrong trying to bottle the warm beer (I don't have a fermentation fridge), the instant it hit the end of the bottling gun as it flowed into the bottle it foamed, to the point that the entire bottles were completely full of foam. I tried different pressures, angles and bottles sizes but nothing worked. So I stopped and will just drink the remainder via picnic tap or the PET carb cap.
Next time I will add the dextrose and bottle immediately, so the carbonation occurs in the bottle.
The method of not transferring and being able to clear the beer in the fermenter has lead to a MUCH better beer for me. I used to transfer the beer 3 times (Primary to Secondary, Secondary to bottling bucket, bucket to bottle) each time exposing it to more o2 and I was having to compensate for this by using ever increasing amounts of hops, never really getting the juicy aroma I love. This beer has turned out spectacular and actually has too many hops! (at least for style)
I love the fermentasaurus but will still keep tweaking my process to get the best out of it.
My understanding is that when bottling under pressure it's essential that the beer is cold, and preferable that the bottles are cold as well.
The length and type of beer line that you use on your bottling gun is critical too. I had big foam problems until I switched to 2m of 4mm beer line on the bottling gun, with the end firmly clamped down. But I suspect that if you are bottling warm then you might get foam anyway, I'm not sure.
I'm lucky that the fermentasaurus fits in my fermentation fridge (only just), so after crash cooling and removing the yeast bottling directly works a real treat.
In your situation I would probably add the priming sugar and bottle from the bottom of the cone, without pressure, as you are suggesting. Or if you have a keg - pressure transfer warm into a keg, crash cool the keg, and bottle from there.
The length and type of beer line that you use on your bottling gun is critical too. I had big foam problems until I switched to 2m of 4mm beer line on the bottling gun, with the end firmly clamped down. But I suspect that if you are bottling warm then you might get foam anyway, I'm not sure.
I'm lucky that the fermentasaurus fits in my fermentation fridge (only just), so after crash cooling and removing the yeast bottling directly works a real treat.
In your situation I would probably add the priming sugar and bottle from the bottom of the cone, without pressure, as you are suggesting. Or if you have a keg - pressure transfer warm into a keg, crash cool the keg, and bottle from there.
I received my Fermentasaurus with the pressure kit only 2 days after ordering from Birdman Brewing. I guess living near the shipping point helps! Has anyone tried bottling thru the bottling port from the bottom? I won't have access to a temp controlled refrigerator for another couple of months, so I won't be fermenting under pressure or cold crashing just yet. I did pick up a 1L soda stream bottle for more trub collection, and I do have a hop spider so hopefully after draining the trub and yeast the beer I'll be bottling from it will be relatively clean.
Dump the trub early(34-36 hours)
Seems most get better results doing it then before it compacts and your not worried about O2 at that point.
You can then attach your bottle and open the valve to harvest yeast.
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I just did a transfer via the pressure kit and while I did not have any issues this time, man was it sllllloooooooowwwww. Took about 20-25 mins. I had about 18-20psi in the Fermentasausus and started with about 10 psi in the keg. It just crawled, not sure why. Anyway it worked. Also pressure dry hopped successfully and man taking a sample it had the best smell of any batch I have made to date. Keeping it under pressure keeps all that aroma in the beer instead of out through the airlock, looking like it really might have made a difference. Cant wait to get it cooled and carbed and see how it really tastes.
toadpipe
rebel scum
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I've used the fermentasaurus for 4 or 5 brews now, and while it's an interesting setup I have the following issues:
- While the yeast/trub catch bottle is a good idea in principle, in practice I think it can lead to oxidisation of your beer: attaching the bottle with air in it and turning the valve causes the air to bubble up through the beer. Maybe there's a better way to go about this (e.g. purge bottle w/CO2 before dumping?).
- Butterfly valve / bottom assembly can be very difficult to remove for washing, and I feel washing it directly is necessary as trub can make its way into crevices in these components, not easily dislodged through PBW+soaking. The bottom assembly eventually became stuck together in a way that was not serviceable and impossible to separate or get back into the sealed position... I feel this part, specifically the threaded stem and ring, could have been manufactured with higher quality components.
Getting ready to use the Fermentasaurus for the first time this week, but have this idea about using it to get around a few issues and wanted to float the idea to get some feedback.
First off, I did get the pressure kit and have a C02 tank and regulator, but no means of temp control (basement is 64F). Also have a 1L soda stream bottle with a stainless carbonation cap with a 3/8" barb on the inside to attach tubing to aid in purging out O2.
Here's my idea- conduct primary ferment in my SS304 stainless Brew Bucket, sanitize then purge the O2 out of the Fermentasaurus before transferring the beer into the Fermentasaurus, then purge the fermenter again a few times to minimize any oxygen exposure. This would, in my thinking, make bottling from it easier since the majority of the yeast and trub would be left behind in the primary. I do plan to dry hop in the Fermentasaurus using the larger 1L bottle to collect the remaining yeast and hops.
Too much hassle, or does this sound practical to keep O2 exposure down while ensuring what I bottle is relatively clear before I can bottle/keg at cold temps?
First off, I did get the pressure kit and have a C02 tank and regulator, but no means of temp control (basement is 64F). Also have a 1L soda stream bottle with a stainless carbonation cap with a 3/8" barb on the inside to attach tubing to aid in purging out O2.
Here's my idea- conduct primary ferment in my SS304 stainless Brew Bucket, sanitize then purge the O2 out of the Fermentasaurus before transferring the beer into the Fermentasaurus, then purge the fermenter again a few times to minimize any oxygen exposure. This would, in my thinking, make bottling from it easier since the majority of the yeast and trub would be left behind in the primary. I do plan to dry hop in the Fermentasaurus using the larger 1L bottle to collect the remaining yeast and hops.
Too much hassle, or does this sound practical to keep O2 exposure down while ensuring what I bottle is relatively clear before I can bottle/keg at cold temps?
I'm not sure this is the best approach, using the Fermentasaurus as a secondary. You will probably have less oxygen exposure by simply leaving it longer in primary then going straight to keg or bottle. Plus the Fermentasaurus is a pain for dryhopping anyway.
The pressure kit works in your favour though. Legend has it that you can ferment under pressure several degrees warmer than you normally would without off-flavours. Personsonally I'd try something cheap like a blonde ale at room temperature and see how it comes out. If it's 64f in the room and say 68-70f in the Fermentasaurus, that should be the equivalent of low 60s without pressure and you should be fine for normal ales. I'd use a temp controlled heat belt to keep the temperature from fluctuating too low, this is cheap and easy to do.
These are great in a dedicated fermentation fridge though, if that's an option at all. Being able to primary, secondary, crash cool and carbonate in one vessel is what makes this thing special IMO. Plus after about 10 days you can take sneaky cold, carbonated samples directly, which is a nice bonus.
If using it as a secondary, I would suggest racking at 24-36 hours into fermentation. Only to leave the trub behind and not worry about O2. At that point, but potentially not later, extra O2 can be beneficial.
Thanks for the replies. I'm going to just conduct primary and dry-hop in the Fermentasaurus and drop the trub after 24-36 hours before pitching Yeast. I have a hop spider and a 300 micron steel container to keep dry hops in, hopefully that will help along the way.
Used my Fermentasaurus for the first time and just bottled my first batch from it. Some observations from my experience of my first go-round:
- Definitely was great to see exactly what's going on inside, is very light weight and easy to carry
- Assembly was not too difficult, and the YouTube videos are a big help.
- For my batch of NE IPA, I used a hop spider and immersion chiller, then racked to my SS 304 7 gallon BrewBucket, then let it sit overnight and racked it off the trub into the Fermentasaurus. Had very clean wort as a result.
- I bought and used a 1 liter Soda Stream bottle to begin with instead of the 500ml bottle that comes with the kit.
- No trub collected and needed to be dumped, but the bottle filled up 1/2 way with yeast after fermentation.
- I did not ferment under pressure, I don't have a dedicated fridge for it yet.
- I dry hopped with a hop tea, usually I dry hop in a 300 micron canister, which I think I'll do next time
- After 8 days i bottled it using the barb, and had no trouble bottling and had very little yeast on the sides near the bottom of the fermenter.
- Cleaning was easier than I thought, but unscrewing the butterfly valve assembly took every ounce of strength I had (which wasn't much after having a bottle of Permanent Funeral while I bottled).
I am anxious to ferment under pressure, be able to crash-cool, and use the pressure kit to keg the batch off the top. Really liking it after the first use, but will be careful not to overtighten the assembly next batch.
- Definitely was great to see exactly what's going on inside, is very light weight and easy to carry
- Assembly was not too difficult, and the YouTube videos are a big help.
- For my batch of NE IPA, I used a hop spider and immersion chiller, then racked to my SS 304 7 gallon BrewBucket, then let it sit overnight and racked it off the trub into the Fermentasaurus. Had very clean wort as a result.
- I bought and used a 1 liter Soda Stream bottle to begin with instead of the 500ml bottle that comes with the kit.
- No trub collected and needed to be dumped, but the bottle filled up 1/2 way with yeast after fermentation.
- I did not ferment under pressure, I don't have a dedicated fridge for it yet.
- I dry hopped with a hop tea, usually I dry hop in a 300 micron canister, which I think I'll do next time
- After 8 days i bottled it using the barb, and had no trouble bottling and had very little yeast on the sides near the bottom of the fermenter.
- Cleaning was easier than I thought, but unscrewing the butterfly valve assembly took every ounce of strength I had (which wasn't much after having a bottle of Permanent Funeral while I bottled).
I am anxious to ferment under pressure, be able to crash-cool, and use the pressure kit to keg the batch off the top. Really liking it after the first use, but will be careful not to overtighten the assembly next batch.
I've done a couple of batchs with the Fermentasaurus under pressure with a spunding valve. I hooked up the silicon tubing to the outlet and the 'ball'. Each time the tubing has dropped off the outlet on the lid into the wort within a day of hooking it up. Anyone else have this problem? Maybe an extra small stainless clamp would help. Thoughts?
I've been brewing with the Fermentasaurus for around 3 months using the pressure lid, I'm 6 brews in and I've never had an issue with the silicon tube falling off, it is hard to push on but I lube it up with some starsan and just keep working it on so that it's on all the way to the top, I find it hard to get off once it's all the way on.
I've been brewing with mine under pressure at around 2-5 psi until I'm a few points off my FG then locking the spunding valve down getting the pressure up to 15psi, 12 days in I cold crash and the pressure drops to around 10psi 2 more days later and I can drink cold carbonated beer, I normally counter pressure transfer to a keg and boost the CO2 to get it right for the style, I had the same problem unscrewing the assembly and now put food grade lubricant on the seals and threads which works great, if you do brew under pressure you will need it really tight to prevent leaks.
I found using a good food grade lubricant on the bottom assembly makes it manageable otherwise yeah it's hard undo and if not tight it will leak, they need a larger opening/butterfly valve and collection bottle if they want to improve this system
kbaggen
Well-Known Member
Hi there,
also gone the Fermentasaurus way. From reading here I decided to use a hop-sock to filter with, see Picture 1 and 2! Think I gonna use a stainer and some cheesecloth for that next time and just sanitize this by boiling Water!
Yeast Collection box emptied after some days, picture 5!
Seems to be finsih fermenting now soexciting to see how much yeast I get in the Collection box (btw.......used some hot Water to clean the yeast Collection unit and it bend a bit......you been warned now).
Ispidel data:
https://app.ubidots.com/ubi/public/getdashboard/page/HipoQxyH7NhTHfugz6wIYfvMSDY
also gone the Fermentasaurus way. From reading here I decided to use a hop-sock to filter with, see Picture 1 and 2! Think I gonna use a stainer and some cheesecloth for that next time and just sanitize this by boiling Water!
Yeast Collection box emptied after some days, picture 5!
Seems to be finsih fermenting now soexciting to see how much yeast I get in the Collection box (btw.......used some hot Water to clean the yeast Collection unit and it bend a bit......you been warned now).
Ispidel data:
https://app.ubidots.com/ubi/public/getdashboard/page/HipoQxyH7NhTHfugz6wIYfvMSDY
gophergoat
Active Member
Anyone serve from the fermentasaurus?
Gotta say it's pretty great for taking a cheeky cold carbonated sample while it's cold crashing.
But serving from it - basically it takes up way too much fridge space for this to be practical. You could easily fit 4 corny kegs and a big box of bottles in the same amount of space so it's not the most efficient use of space.
Personally I give my brews 2-3 weeks in the fermentasaurus then do a closed transfer to kegs and get the next batch started.
Anyone else having transfer issues. I am constantly getting the end of the hose from the pressure kit stuck right up to the side of the fermenter. Not sure if that is why but my transfers have all taking 40-50 mins! Its inane how long it takes. I have tried several different PSI methods. I tried 10 psi in the fermenter, 5 in the keg. I tried 1-2 PSI in fermenter to a keg with none and relief valve open. I have tried 15 PSI in the fermenter to 10 in there keg. Nothing has sped up the process. I even tried a pump and pumping out the beer and that did not work either.
gophergoat
Active Member
Thanks Sadu!
Was looking at the same thing, found this:
http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/14-Coils_c_27.html
Be sure to check AliExpress
bluemoon737
Well-Known Member
For ss coils I go with these guys. They'll custom build one for you. And reasonably priced.
https://www.nybrewsupply.com/collections/stainless-steel-tubing
https://www.nybrewsupply.com/collections/stainless-steel-tubing
I have 2 Fermentasauruses. On my fourth brew, first batch not under pressure but last three were. All batches great cleanest beer I've made, but then I rarely transferred to secondary. My other fermenters are buckets, spiedels, and a brew bucket. Like the fermentasaurus best. Serve from it, I have an upright freezer for an fv and server. Had some problem with gas leaks from lid and or ball lock fittings, gotta really tighten. Also pick up hose from pressure kit slipped off and into wort this current batch
runningfarmer
Junior Member
How are you controling the fermention for the heat side? I have the plastic heat raps but I did'nt know if they would melt the tank. I seen the ones above and its more money then I want to spend.
