Anyone have a Fermentasaurus?

[marjen]

I just ordered one of these with the pressure kit and anxiously wait its arrival. Finding a competent fermenter has proved to be a challenge for me so far.

I had been using carboys. Biggest issue is there is just not enough headspace in them. I use WY1318 which needs a lot of room and it would either explode out or ooze out of the carboys every single time. A huge mess and PITA. Also doing a closed transfer from them is not with out issues and about 50% of the time causes my a major headache.

So I recently moved to 7.9 gallon speidels. Headspace issue is gone! But even with upgraded valves on the bottom racking has been a nightmare. They keep getting clogged from all the trub and not being able to see where the dip tube is has made trying to rack from the top via a closed transfer method difficult.

I am hoping the fermentasaus solves all my issues. I was considering one of the new spikes, but for the price of one of those I could order 4 of these things. Biggest issue I see with these currently is lack of temp control solution. Maybe some one will come out with something. But the combination of headspace, ability to ferment under pressure, ability to see exactly what is going on with the beer, ability to remove trub and ability to do a closed transfer from the top of the beer just ticks all the boxes. Only one it misses is being shiny

Hope these ship sooner rather than later in July!

EDIT: Just got shipping confirmation! Should be here in about a week. They are showing in stock for the fermenters AND the pressure kits, so looks like they got them in ahead of schedule. Cant wait to give this a go.

 

[marjen]

I'm told the threads are the same as a sodastream bottle, so if you jack it up on bricks you can connect a larger collection bottle. My fridge doesn't have the height for this, but otherwise it seems like a good idea.

Would this be the bottles that should work?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WZ8Q4W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I usually have a ton of trub so I know I would fill one of these. But I also usually dry hop with about 8oz of hops and it looks like the default collection bottle can maybe hold an ounce or two at most. It would be nice to be able to attach a larger bottle for dry hopping and not having to open the top port.

 

[MerlinWerks]

So I recently moved to 7.9 gallon speidels. Headspace issue is gone! But even with upgraded valves on the bottom racking has been a nightmare. They keep getting clogged from all the trub and not being able to see where the dip tube is has made trying to rack from the top via a closed transfer method difficult.

That's really odd, you must have a ton of trub. I've gone 100 batches or so with Speidels and the stock valve and have never had a clog. Sucks a little bit of the yeast cake in but that's about it. I use a hop spider so no hops getting in the fermenter and there's usually about a 2" yeast cake, I rotate the spigot 90 degrees just prior to kegging, never an issue...

:smack: I guess you did say you get a ton of trub.

I would wonder what is causing you to have so much that it is causing you to have these kind of racking issues??

 

[marjen]

I would wonder what is causing you to have so much that it is causing you to have these kind of racking issues??

I usually add about 5-6 oz of hops at flame out whirlpool and a lot ends up making it into the fermenter. Additionally I usually add about 8 oz hops in the fermenter. I make NE IPAs so lots of hop residue.

 

[Jwin]

I always prop my 60l up with a 2x4 under one side, place the spigot at the highest point, facing out of the fermentation fridge. Never have any problems. The cake/hope compact well after a cold crash.
I push the first keg out with co2, then lift the fermentor and close loop siphone the second keg.
Took at bit of trial an error but this system has work well for me the last several batches.

 

[alexavery]

Birdman Brewing is selling them too I see. I have yet to take the plunge on this one, however. But I'm always considering new toys.

http://www.birdmanbrewing.com/fermentasaurus-conical-fermenter-9-25g-35l/

http://www.birdmanbrewing.com/fermentasaurus-pressure-kit/

 

[Jwin]

Seems morebeer is taking preorders
Hbf link with sale info

http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2017/0...ntasaurus-conical-fermenter-pressure-kit.html

 

[marjen]

More beer is shipping already, mine should be here Wednesday. I might order a second one since they are on sale.

edit: ordered a second.

 

[marjen]

I have 2 fermenatasaus on the way and have a question about the pressure fermentation process. Does anyone know what is the default value the relief valve is set to? How about what value the pressure will get up to while fermenting naturally under pressure for about 7-10 days?

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

I was looking at their website and I noticed they adapted the clear beer system for withdrawal. I wonder if the clear beer guys know that they are infringing on their patent if it's sold in the US? I own two of the clear beer systems and it looks pretty much identical, just not in a Cornelius keg.

I've thought about hooking up one of my clear draught systems up to the inside of my SS Brewtech brew bucket to see if it would work. Maybe I'll have to give it a try.

 

[alexavery]

Seems morebeer is taking preorders
Hbf link with sale info

http://www.homebrewfinds.com/2017/0...ntasaurus-conical-fermenter-pressure-kit.html

I know Birdman Brewing is shipping them. A guy in our homebrew club got one. And he said they were cheaper than Morebeer.

 

[Sadu]

I have 2 fermenatasaus on the way and have a question about the pressure fermentation process. Does anyone know what is the default value the relief valve is set to? How about what value the pressure will get up to while fermenting naturally under pressure for about 7-10 days?

The PRV included is set to 35psi. You'll find this is quite a bit higher than you want and the pressure will quickly build up during fermentation.

I suggest using a spunding valve attached to the gas port, set to 5psi for the first 2 days then increase to 15-20psi as fermentation finishes to give you carbonated beer. I have found that 15psi at ale fermentation temperatures isn't enough to give fully carbonated beer so I hook up the gas while it crash cools in the fermentasaurus to finish it off.

The pressure also does a decent job of keeping the krauesen under control - although on my latest batch or koelsch (28L in 35L vessel at 15psi) it still blew out of the spunding.

Too much pressure initially will stress the yeast apparently.

 

[marjen]

The PRV included is set to 35psi. You'll find this is quite a bit higher than you want and the pressure will quickly build up during fermentation.

I suggest using a spunding valve attached to the gas port, set to 5psi for the first 2 days then increase to 15-20psi as fermentation finishes to give you carbonated beer. I have found that 15psi at ale fermentation temperatures isn't enough to give fully carbonated beer so I hook up the gas while it crash cools in the fermentasaurus to finish it off.

Thanks for this. I did reach out and get a detailed response from Oxebar on the pressure fermentation process. I will say I am a bit disappointed and find it misleading that they say you can use it for pressurized oxygen free fermentation but in reality you have to buy yet another item to actually do that. If that is the case the pressure kit should come with a spunding valve and pressure monitor. I now have to drop another $30+ to actually do what I thought I could do when i bought the pressure kit.

I did receive my fermentasaurus yesterday. Will see how it hold up. Everything seems a bit on the thin side and I worry long term about all the plastic parts remaining leak free. I brewed yesterday and have a batch in there now. So far the trub is not dropping into the ball. The ball has a small amount at the bottom but the rest is liquid. Hoping that as it settles out more the trub finally makes its way into the bottle. Otherwise one of the other main reasons (besides pressure fermentation) I purchased this will not be working either. If I can't get all the trub out, then I can't dry hop from the collection ball which means opening the lid.

 

[bcltoys]

I will just dry hop from the top and burp it with some CO2,the ball is useless to me i'm going to dump trub into a pan hopefully.

 

[marjen]

So some good news on the collection front. Finally after about 48 hours the ball has started to really fill up. Until early afternoon there was only a little trub in the very bottom of the ball but now it is just about full and there is very little left in the fermenter. I am at or close to peak fermentation so maybe all that activity finally pushed it all down.

I bit the bullet and ordered a spunding valve. It should be hear tomorrow so I will add my drop hops and then place the pressure kit on to try and retain the aroma and build a little pressure for the remainder of fermentation. Interested to see how this finishes up.

 

[Sadu]

Depends what you are brewing, but here's my 2c on how to clear the yeast.

My last batch was a Helles lager with no dry hops, so not the same thing as a pale ale.

First up, use a hop spider or similar in the boil so there's less hop matter going into the fermentasaurus. This saves 1-2 emptyings of the collection bottle right there.

Wait until main fermentation is over - until that point the yeast isn't that tightly packed and you are removing a lot of beer. Once fermentation is done and under good pressure the bottle really fills up.

A couple of times per day, squeeze the collection bottle to push beer back and forwards through the valve opening. This dislodges anything that gets stuck and you get more solids in the collection bottle.

Throw away the first collection bottle which is mostly trub.

Keep the second collection bottle which is much cleaner than the first.

I throw away subsequent ones since I don't really need that much yeast.

My helles was about 4 collection bottles worth, and it was tightly packed by doing the removal after fermentation and under pressure.

If you depressurise before collection the yeast will stir itself back into the beer, which you don't want.

When you remove, empty out the yeast, and spray the valve and bottle threads with starsan. Purge the inside of the collection bottle with CO2 if you can do this. Then fill the collection bottle with beer taken from the beer line / floating dip tube. It will foam up which is fine. Reconnecting a collection bottle full of beer and foam is way better than a bottle full of oxygen.

I have been dry-hopping through the top. I found that when going in through the bottle the hops stayed in the bottom and didn't really mix through the beer. I felt the aroma was lacking on that batch. Now I go in through the top.

To fine with Gelatin, I go in through the beer line using a PET bottle with a carbonation cap. This puts the gelatin at the top of the beer where it's going to mix better. To do this, put your gelatin/water mix into a sanitised PET bottle and purge O2. Pressurise the PET bottle and depressurise the Fermentasaurus. Then connect the PET bottle to the beer line and the gelatin should flow into the Fermentasaurus. Then repressurise the Fermentasaurus.

 

[marjen]

Has anyone done a closed transfer from this thing yet. I just tried my first and it was not good. I tell you know matter what fermenter I have used this is always the most frustrating step.

So I connected the out on the pressure kit to the out on the keg. It started flowing right away due to the pressure that had built up during fermentation. But like other closed transfers I connected the gas in to the CO2 and set to like 1.5 PSI. After about a gallon transferred all of a sudden huge bubbles from the bottom started coming up and completed disputed the 1/2 to 3/4 gallon trub that had remained on the bottom. I disconnected the beer line as soon as I could. So now instead of beer that had looked clear all the crap is at the top of the fermenter again. I am hoping it all drops down without issue again, no idea how long that will take, seems like awhile.

Should I not have connected the CO2 line to a tank?

 

[Peruvian802]

Don't these bottom trub traps add a ton of oxygen every time they are emptied and the air from the trap bubbles up through the fermenter?

I think a racking arm like the chronical or brew bucket that allows the beer to be pulled from on top of the trub would be a better solution.

 

[Jwin]

Don't these bottom trub traps add a ton of oxygen every time they are emptied and the air from the trap bubbles up through the fermenter?

I think a racking arm like the chronical or brew bucket that allows the beer to be pulled from on top of the trub would be a better solution.

Not necessarily a bad thing if it's very early in fermentation(would only leave yeast). Now, doing it at the end of fermentation...

 

[Jwin]

Has anyone done a closed transfer from this thing yet. I just tried my first and it was not good. I tell you know matter what fermenter I have used this is always the most frustrating step.

So I connected the out on the pressure kit to the out on the keg. It started flowing right away due to the pressure that had built up during fermentation. But like other closed transfers I connected the gas in to the CO2 and set to like 1.5 PSI. After about a gallon transferred all of a sudden huge bubbles from the bottom started coming up and completed disputed the 1/2 to 3/4 gallon trub that had remained on the bottom. I disconnected the beer line as soon as I could. So now instead of beer that had looked clear all the crap is at the top of the fermenter again. I am hoping it all drops down without issue again, no idea how long that will take, seems like awhile.

Should I not have connected the CO2 line to a tank?

Curious as to what caused the bubbles
Since this is pressure rated, maybe a higher psi would help?

 

[marjen]

Curious as to what caused the bubbles
Since this is pressure rated, maybe a higher psi would help?

See I am wondering since it was already pressurized. (reading was about 14 psi at the time I started transferring, wondering if I should NOT have connected CO2 and just used the pressure from the fermenter to transfer the beer to the keg?

 

[bleme]

Don't these bottom trub traps add a ton of oxygen every time they are emptied and the air from the trap bubbles up through the fermenter?

I think a racking arm like the chronical or brew bucket that allows the beer to be pulled from on top of the trub would be a better solution.

To avoid oxygen, they recommend that you either purge the ball with CO2 before attaching (Not a good solution IMO), or fill it with the beer that you are fermenting.

 

[Sadu]

My closed transfers have gone very well. First remove as much yeast as you can and fine with gelatine. Pressurise your keg to the same as the fermentasaurus. Connect gas to fermentasaurus. Connect spunding valve to keg. I also have the keg on the floor and the fermentasaurus raised off the ground in the fridge.
Connect the beer lines of the fermentasaurus and keg. Slowly turn the sounding until you get a gentle hiss. The whole transfer should happen at 12psi or whatever your starting pressure was. Once you have transferred 5 gallons stop. I then transfer the rest into PET bottles and will top up the keg with those once I have made some room. The last half gallon will pick up yeast stuck to the sides of the cone which I don't really want in the keg.
Also I do this entire process with chilled beer and chilled keg. Not sure if that helps.

 

[marjen]

OK well mine went horribly wrong and honestly just killed the entire batch of beer. Not happy.

After my issues this morning, I let it settle down for about 6 hours. The trub had all moved back to the bottom, the top was clear I looked good to go. The keg is below the fermentasaurus, I urged the keg but then like other closed transfers I released all the co2 from the keg. I connected the beer line to the out on the keg. It started transferring again. Got about a gallon in and stopped, I had left it for a minute or two and when I came back I realized that once again all the trub that was left on the bottom was back at the top, it had gotten into the lines. It also took all that crap right into the keg. The keg beer is now nothing but full of trub and is greenish in color and tastes like s)$*t! I tell you I am about done with closed transfers no matter what I use, carboy, speidel and now this it turns into a mess.

 

[bcltoys]

Do you have to use the ball to dump the trub or can you just dump it into a pan.

 

[Jwin]

OK well mine went horribly wrong and honestly just killed the entire batch of beer. Not happy.

After my issues this morning, I let it settle down for about 6 hours. The trub had all moved back to the bottom, the top was clear I looked good to go. The keg is below the fermentasaurus, I urged the keg but then like other closed transfers I released all the co2 from the keg. I connected the beer line to the out on the keg. It started transferring again. Got about a gallon in and stopped, I had left it for a minute or two and when I came back I realized that once again all the trub that was left on the bottom was back at the top, it had gotten into the lines. It also took all that crap right into the keg. The keg beer is now nothing but full of trub and is greenish in color and tastes like s)$*t! I tell you I am about done with closed transfers no matter what I use, carboy, speidel and now this it turns into a mess.

Try again. No process was ever sound on the first attempt. Few on the 15th. Fewer on the third.
I would suggest releasing the pressure on the FV first, then transferring at 4ish psi. If you see the transfer slow, cut the gas/burp the fv.

Do you have to use the ball to dump the trub or can you just dump it into a pan.

You can dump to another vessel (pan) all you want early in the fermentation process in any conical fermentor. As long as it is at the point that the O2 induced will be consumed by the yeast, you are good.

Rule of thumb, dump early.

I see the lack of alternative racking ng system in these as their downfall. I don't see how one could ever brew a IIPA with one, or NEIPA for that matter.
Now, in theory, I suspect you could dump out the bottom with large amounts of pressure in the headspace without burping up air into the fermentor. The pressure in the headspace would have to be greater than the suction in the exit. I suck a physics. Maybe some one else could do a better evaluation.
That could potentially be aided by applying more pressure to the fermentor via co2.

 

[Sadu]

Lllll.all

OK well mine went horribly wrong and honestly just killed the entire batch of beer. Not happy.

Sorry to hear man. I wouldnt be happy either since this thing is meant to make better beer. I think you really need to look at removing all the yeast/trub before you do the transfer. I find if you use a hop spider in the boil and dry hop in a bag the trub is manageable. Otherwise not so much.

 

[Peruvian802]

Do you have to use the ball to dump the trub or can you just dump it into a pan.

This seems like a better solution. Just collect the trub in a separate container, don't attach the ball and then you won't get the oxygen bubble going back up through the fermenting beer.

 

[marjen]

This seems like a better solution. Just collect the trub in a separate container, don't attach the ball and then you won't get the oxygen bubble going back up through the fermenting beer.

I think this is going to be my approach next time. The thing is trying to time it before the trub gets too compacted.

I will actually probably leave ball connected at pitch and once it fills disconnect, dump it and empty rest into a pan. I have found that if you wait too long the sediment gets so compacted nothing falls out the bottom. Right now my collection ball is connected, there is about 5 gallon of trub in the conical but nothing is making it to the collection bottle.

 

[marjen]

So I made a positive step with this thing today. The other day I closed transferred what beer I got out of the fermenter back from the keg to the fermentasaurus. Now I am not sure it will be very good, going from cold keg back to warm conical, but if nothing else I wanted another shot at the transfer.

I did reach out to the company that made it. I will say they have been awesome from a customer service perspective. I have had several questions and they have provided timely and very detailed responses.

SO I purged my keg and set the pressure to 5 psi. I then pressurized the fermenter to about 10 psi. Connected the beer line and transfer started. It was VERY slow. They recommended a 5 psi pressure deviance between the fermenter and conical. after about 1.25 gallons the transfer slowed to a stop. I then relieved pressure in the keg and it started up again. another gallon and the same thing happened. This time I increased the pressure in the conical to about 15 psi. It continued for a bit then stalled. I had to keep relieving pressure in the keg about every .75-1 gallon or so to get the transfer to work, but it worked. No trub was disturbed this time.

So at this point a solid 4.25 gallons made it to the fermenter. I am going to let it cool down for a day or two, then carb and see what I got. Hopefully next batch goes better.