Anyone brewing Brut IPA?

[TheMadKing]

So, would you recommend?
1 oz. Citra (15 min)
2 oz. Nelson Sauvin (0 min)
6 oz. Nelson Sauvin (4 days--dry hop)

Also, I'm thinking of switching the yeast to White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) to get better attenuation.

I think that would be too bitter and would move your Citra down to 0 min. You should keep your IBU under 30 total

And your attenuation isn't really affected by yeast choice if you use glucoamylase in the primary.

 

[EDF713]

I think that would be too bitter and would move your Citra down to 0 min. You should keep your IBU under 30 total

And your attenuation isn't really affected by yeast choice if you use glucoamylase in the primary.

You definitely don't want it too bitter, and the dryness and higher carbonation will contribute, too. I recommend plugging it all into Beersmith or Brewers Friend with the alphas from your Citra and Nelson. You'll also want to take into account how quickly you chill or if you whirlpool, since the hops can add bitterness until the wort cools below 170F.

I agree with more flameout and dry hops. For the yeast, I agree with TheMadKing, and I doubt you'd be able to tell much difference between WLP001 or WY1056. I would get whatever is freshest.

 

[devils4ever]

You definitely don't want it too bitter, and the dryness and higher carbonation will contribute, too. I recommend plugging it all into Beersmith or Brewers Friend with the alphas from your Citra and Nelson. You'll also want to take into account how quickly you chill or if you whirlpool, since the hops can add bitterness until the wort cools below 170F.

Beersmith can do the calculation for IBUs, but there isn't a Brut IPA style listed.

 

[EDF713]

Beersmith can do the calculation for IBUs, but there isn't a Brut IPA style listed.

Very true. I just shot for my target numbers and ignored the style parameters. I also couldn't figure out a way to have the glucoamylase affect the final gravity. It's not perfect, but gets you a read on OG, IBU, SRM. You can back into ABV by using the Measured fields with the Estimated OG and plugging 1.000 or .998 for Measured FG.

 

[TheMadKing]

Beersmith can do the calculation for IBUs, but there isn't a Brut IPA style listed.

I just created one based on this thread

My IBU range was 10-30

 

[devils4ever]

Using Brewer's Friend, I need to use this schedule to get the IBU at 27 (below 30):
0.5 oz. Citra (15 min)
1 oz. Nelson Sauvin (whirlpool)
4 oz. Nelson Sauvin (4-7 days--dry hop)

 

[cheesebach]

Using Brewer's Friend, I need to use this schedule to get the IBU at 27 (below 30):
0.5 oz. Citra (15 min)
1 oz. Nelson Sauvin (whirlpool)
4 oz. Nelson Sauvin (4-7 days--dry hop)

My guess is that your software is including an estimate for IBUs from whirlpool hops, which probably most people tend to ignore. I used 0.25oz @15min, 2.5oz in whirlpool, and 5.5oz dry hop in a 4.5 gallon batch. It finished at 0.997 and if I were to make it again, I'd up the bittering hop charge - it was still a bit too sweet for my palate.

IMO, I'd leave the 0.5oz Citra unchanged, but add another 1-2oz in both whirlpool and dry hop.

 

[Mer-man]

So my brut just came back from a competition with a 27 and it was scored low because there just wasn't enough hop aroma and flavor for the judges to call it an IPA... So I'm doubling the hops on the next one and increasing the IBU to 30

But Munich Helles took best of show so I'm pretty content

Got that malty beer thing sorted out, eh? Great work!

 

[devils4ever]

My guess is that your software is including an estimate for IBUs from whirlpool hops, which probably most people tend to ignore. I used 0.25oz @15min, 2.5oz in whirlpool, and 5.5oz dry hop in a 4.5 gallon batch. It finished at 0.997 and if I were to make it again, I'd up the bittering hop charge - it was still a bit too sweet for my palate.

IMO, I'd leave the 0.5oz Citra unchanged, but add another 1-2oz in both whirlpool and dry hop.

Beersmith 3 is showing 0 IBUs for Steep/Whirlpool with 0 min. I guess I need to change the 0 min to 10 min for the time it takes to drop below 170F-180F.

 

[jaymosbeershack]

Im sipping on my third try at Brut IPA. The first 2 finished at 1.001, this one at 0.999. The gravity made no difference on mouth feel(as assumed) but ive gotten this batch to pour right at 19 psi (3.2 volumes.) The extra co is the real game changer. I am pouring through 22 feet of 3/16 line.

 

[jaymosbeershack]

Beersmith 3 is showing 0 IBUs for Steep/Whirlpool with 0 min. I guess I need to change the 0 min to 10 min for the time it takes to drop below 170F-180F.

I havent used Beersmith in a while, but in Brewfather, you have to put in the full length of the whirlpool to get the ibu contirbution

 

[RPh_Guy]

Does anyone know how long these enzymes remain active? Say if you were to pitch more wort on the cake, repeatedly, would they all ferment to the same dryness?

 

[bleme]

Does anyone know how long these enzymes remain active? Say if you were to pitch more wort on the cake, repeatedly, would they all ferment to the same dryness?

Just a guess, but I don't think the enzymes drop out like the yeast does so you would be working with a drastically reduced amount of enzyme.

 

[Darthbrewder]

Just a guess, but I don't think the enzymes drop out like the yeast does so you would be working with a drastically reduced amount of enzyme.

Sounds like my kind of experiment. Kviek yeast with enzyme. Would be interesting to see how many batches it would take before more enzyme would need to be reintroduced.

 

[isomerization]

Does anyone know how long these enzymes remain active? Say if you were to pitch more wort on the cake, repeatedly, would they all ferment to the same dryness?

I’d agree with the above comment, strong dilution effect (unless yeast surface hydrophobicity “collects” the enzyme).

Looking at academic articles, thermal stability was good at fermentation temps, with the caveat that experiments were short time scales.

 

[RPh_Guy]

OK, thanks.

 

[johngg123]

Im sipping on my third try at Brut IPA. The first 2 finished at 1.001, this one at 0.999. The gravity made no difference on mouth feel(as assumed) but ive gotten this batch to pour right at 19 psi (3.2 volumes.) The extra co is the real game changer. I am pouring through 22 feet of 3/16 line.

Sipping on my third Brut IPA batch too! This one was a Pliny clone 100% grain with a little corn sugar. Finished at 0.980. Amylase in 142 mash and White labs ultra ferm in fermenter. This one was a little sketchy a week after kegging but OMG really hit its stride at 3 weeks in the keg. Holy god. Pliny is supposed to be a dry ipa and this took it to a whole other level. Naturally I adjusted the grain bill to be appropriate for a 7-8 % target given FG 1.000.

Drinking a few pints of my Brut Pliny is really not that different than drinking a few of Russian River Pliny. I’d say be more careful on an empty stomach because there aren’t any carbs there so it hits you faster (like a vodka soda would.)

And don’t go from a pint of brut IPA to a malty IPA (FG 1.012ish) or it will taste like syrup.

 

[eric19312]

Sipping on my third Brut IPA batch too! This one was a Pliny clone 100% grain with a little corn sugar. Finished at 0.980. Amylase in 142 mash and White labs ultra ferm in fermenter. This one was a little sketchy a week after kegging but OMG really hit its stride at 3 weeks in the keg. Holy god. Pliny is supposed to be a dry ipa and this took it to a whole other level. Naturally I adjusted the grain bill to be appropriate for a 7-8 % target given FG 1.000.

Drinking a few pints of my Brut Pliny is really not that different than drinking a few of Russian River Pliny. I’d say be more careful on an empty stomach because there aren’t any carbs there so it hits you faster (like a vodka soda would.)

And don’t go from a pint of brut IPA to a malty IPA (FG 1.012ish) or it will taste like syrup.

First I’ve noticed someone doing a high IBU brut. How did you adjust the hops? I’ve been going very low IBU and they are great but maybe too easy to drink for 7% beer. Maybe higher IBU will slow people down a bit.

 

[smata67]

Amazon has the gluco with Prime at a reasonable cost, but you need to search "gluco-amylase," as the 1oz LDCarlson product for $5.99 would not show up without the dash.

 

[isomerization]

Amazon has the glyco with Prime at a reasonable cost, but you need to search "glyco-amylase," as the 1oz LDCarlson product for $5.99 would not show up without the dash.

Glucoamylase (probably autocorrect typo, but wanted to be sure).

I prefer this version:
https://www.amazon.com/Fermfast-Dis...se&qid=1564433903&s=gateway&sr=8-5&th=1&psc=1

Only $2 more for same total amount, but in single use packets so no messing around with weighing.

 

[smata67]

I corrected the spelling in my original post, maybe that's why the search wasn't optimal. I need Prime shipping, because even though I just learned about this stuff reading this thread this morning, I have to have it by tomorrow.

 

[johngg123]

First I’ve noticed someone doing a high IBU brut. How did you adjust the hops? I’ve been going very low IBU and they are great but maybe too easy to drink for 7% beer. Maybe higher IBU will slow people down a bit.

I move all the hops to the whirlpool and dry hop. You don’t want bitterness because you don’t have the sweetness to balance it out. I still am using almost a pound of hops for a 5 gallon batch! 3 oz in the whirlpool, 6 oz for each of the 2 dry hops.....Massive hop aroma (lots of oxidation management w/ CO2.)

While there is no actual sweetness, the high ABV does add body so I’m a fan of keeping the ABV around 7%.

 

[eric19312]

I move all the hops to the whirlpool and dry hop. You don’t want bitterness because you don’t have the sweetness to balance it out. I still am using almost a pound of hops for a 5 gallon batch! 3 oz in the whirlpool, 6 oz for each of the 2 dry hops.....Massive hop aroma (lots of oxidation management w/ CO2.)

While there is no actual sweetness, the high ABV does add body so I’m a fan of keeping the ABV around 7%.

OK gotcha. I was kind of hoping that you were retaining the old school roots. Have you made the original recipe enough that you can see the connection between this brut Pliny clone and the original?

As for bitterness balancing sweetness, original Pliny is not intended as far as I can see to be a "balanced" beer. Firm upfront bitterness is important part of the experience IMO. I've been missing that upfront bitterness with all the NEIPAs and now the brut IPAs too.

 

[cmac62]

I brewed one this weekend
3lbs maris otter
3lbs pils
1lb rice
1lb Rye
Mashed at 48 for 60 with a tsp of amylase.
.5 cluster 30
1.5 cluster FO
Chilled to 100 pitched WL Ultra Ferm (glucoamylase) and Omega Hornidal Keviek.

This should get down to 1.000 or lower. I hope it tastes good as this is the style of the month at my homebrew club.

While there is no actual sweetness, the high ABV does add body so I’m a fan of keeping the ABV around 7%.[/QUOTE]

Question: How does high ABV add to body when Alcohol has a SG lower than water. Isnt this why you cant use a refractometer for beer without adjustments and Brut IPAs can get down below 1.000?

 

[isomerization]

I brewed one this weekend
3lbs maris otter
3lbs pils
1lb rice
1lb Rye
Mashed at 48 for 60 with a tsp of amylase.
.5 cluster 30
1.5 cluster FO
Chilled to 100 pitched WL Ultra Ferm (glucoamylase) and Omega Hornidal Keviek.

This should get down to 1.000 or lower. I hope it tastes good as this is the style of the month at my homebrew club.

While there is no actual sweetness, the high ABV does add body so I’m a fan of keeping the ABV around 7%.

Question: How does high ABV add to body when Alcohol has a SG lower than water. Isnt this why you cant use a refractometer for beer without adjustments and Brut IPAs can get down below 1.000?[/QUOTE]

Per your question:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1993.tb01143.x

Seems to be inconclusive, but if anything, I would hypothesize that the OG would have more impact than the ABV. That is, if 2 beers of similar grain bill finished with 7% ABV, the one with the higher OG would have the increased mouthfeel.

 

[cmac62]

Question: How does high ABV add to body when Alcohol has a SG lower than water. Isnt this why you cant use a refractometer for beer without adjustments and Brut IPAs can get down below 1.000?

Per your question:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1993.tb01143.x

Seems to be inconclusive, but if anything, I would hypothesize that the OG would have more impact than the ABV. That is, if 2 beers of similar grain bill finished with 7% ABV, the one with the higher OG would have the increased mouthfeel.[/QUOTE]
That makes sense to me. Thanks for the reply, but I don't think I'll be reading the link, way to long. LOL.

 

[isomerization]

That makes sense to me. Thanks for the reply, but I don't think I'll be reading the link, way to long. LOL.

Lol just this part, not the whole article:

 

[TheMadKing]

Lol just this part, not the whole article:
View attachment 638920

That's really interesting and also explains why stouts and porters taste more full and balanced to me when they are 6-7% abv while lower gravity versions taste like they are missing something.

 

[isomerization]

That's really interesting and also explains why stouts and porters taste more full and balanced to me when they are 6-7% abv while lower gravity versions taste like they are missing something.

Totally! I recall a Brulosophy (stay on target) experiment with mash temp that returned drastically different FGs that were not perceived as different as well.

http://brulosophy.com/2018/08/13/mash-temperature-147f-64c-vs-164-73c-exbeeriment-results/

 

[cmac62]

Thanks for pulling that out for me Iso. It still seems counterintuitive that alcohol adds to the body of beer, but i'm willing to exbeeriment.