Any tips for brewing my first AG BIG beer

[Jimbodaman]

It's time I graduate from AG session beers to a proper big beer. Luckily my homemade mash tun cooler is 15 gallons (with manifold) so I should have no problem making 5 gallons of 1.090 Barleywine eh? Any tips for getting concentrated wort without boiling all day? Also should I mash thin or thick? High temp or low? One last thing how does this recipe look for an English Barleywine

5 gal into fermentor
all grain
15 lbs Maris Otter
2 lbs Munich
2 lbs Crystal 60L

3 oz EKG 90 min
2 oz EKG 10 min

3 packages Dry Nottingham Ale yeast

Batch Sparge expecting 70% efficiency
Mash Temp 157 F??? tenatively

I was thinking this recipe might be a little bit too sweet but I know that's also what the style calls for any help is appreciated. Brew day isn't for a few weeks so I have plenty of time for corrections

 

[JonM]

As for concentrated wort without boiling all day, there's no shame in adding a little bit of extract, which is what I did on my last big barleywine. Northern Brewer makes a Maris Otter extract, which should go well with your base malt.

Definitely mash low, long, and thin. You want as fermentable a wort as you can possibly get. Last time, I started my mash at 148, then went to the diner for eggs and bacon, which gave me about a 2 hour mash. 157 will get you a cloyingly sweet beer, especially with all that crystal. It'll be plenty sweet with a low mash temp.

Lastly, there's nothing wrong with boiling all day. I did an all Maris Otter barleywine that I boiled for 3.5 hours (this is reportedly how North Coast does their awesome Old Stock Ale) The color was a gorgeous deep amber red, and the flavor was toffee, raisin, etc.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Yeah definitely mash low, you have plenty of crystal malt to give it body. If you mash high it'll probably be too sweet.

An oxygen kit would help, and also adding another shot of oxygen on day 2 of fermentation.

Obviously pitch a huge starter too.

 

[RM-MN]

When you drain the tun there will be a lot of sugars still in the bed of grain. To maximize the amount of sugars without going to extremes, plan on a double batch sparge (or a fly sparge if you want). If you mash thin you won't have a lot sparge water needed without a long boil.

Your other option is to increase efficiency so you don't need as much grain. A finer crush will get you higher efficiency but will result in a stuck sparge with a conventional tun and a braid or false bottom. Instead, buy a piece of Swiss Voille curtain material to line your mash tun. When the mash is done and it won't drain properly, grab the curtain and pull it up to create a bigger filter area. Same thing when you sparge, pull the curtain up to get more filter. If you want, grab all sides and pull up on the curtain to form a loose bag. That will squeeze the mash and you will get more wort out, which also helps with efficiency.

 

[Natdavis777]

Definitely mash low, long, and thin. You want as fermentable a wort as you can possibly get. Last time, I started my mash at 148, then went to the diner for eggs and bacon, which gave me about a 2 hour mash. 157 will get you a cloyingly sweet beer, especially with all that crystal. It'll be plenty sweet with a low mash temp.

Hit the nail on the head.

Mashing that high coupled with 10.5% crystal is a recipe for a high FG.

One thing I take into account when going with really big beers is a slight drop in efficiency from my norm. May not be the case for you, but just something I have experienced on my system.

 

[Jimbodaman]

Lastly, there's nothing wrong with boiling all day. I did an all Maris Otter barleywine that I boiled for 3.5 hours (this is reportedly how North Coast does their awesome Old Stock Ale) The color was a gorgeous deep amber red, and the flavor was toffee, raisin, etc.

I plan on boiling for 90 min, my burner burns through the propane (pun intended) so that's why I want a short-for-a-barleywine boil. Everything else was very helpful thanks!

 

[Brewenstein]

What is your efficiency on a normal strength brew? I am right around 75% for 5-6% ABV beers with a single batch sparge. For big beers, I drop the efficiency to 65%, increase the base malt to compensate, and do two sparges, collecting enough liquor for a normal length boil. This almost always comes out right for my intended OG.

If I don't want to increase my grain bill, I re-calculate at 75% efficiency and run enough water through to get an pre-boil OG similar to what I would for normal strength beer. Then, based on that volume and my normal boil off rate, I lengthen the boil to get to my intended OG. This is a longer day, but uses less grain and therefore costs less. Although the increase in propane cost most likely offsets this. But as said above, a longer boil can impart different flavors, so it is something to consider.

Personally, I like the first option I listed. I feel it gives a better mouth feel and flavor, but that is my opinion. And you can sparge with more water and do a "small" beer and get two for one, so to speak.

As for the crystal malt - 2 pounds is way too much. I'd drop it to a half pound and increase the base malt. Also, don't be afraid to use sugar. I typically use 2 pounds for a barleywine or imperial stout. Even with long mashing and the sugar, I get FGs in the 1.014-18 range. And it is another way to boost ABV to get you to the ABV target you are looking for. I typically add sugar with about 15 minutes left in the boil.

As always, have fun and report back with your process and results.

 

[Jimbodaman]

I usually get 72-75% efficiency with normal 1.055ish beers so I'll bump up the Munich a pound. 2 lbs of crystal does feel like way too much for a normal beer I thought everything was bumped up to the max. I think I'll cut 2 lbs of crystal 60L for .75 lbs of crystal 80. That feels more like a significant amount but not over the top sweet.

As for the simple sugar addition you gave me a great idea (thanks) I think I'll add a pound of raw honey to the secondary (of course making sure to sterilize the honey).

I'll take some pictures and notes to keep y'all updated.

 

[tim_c7]

Since you are still planning you should make your day long enough to do a partigyle. I am glad I did when I made my barleywine. It gives you something to drink while waiting for the big beer to condition.

Good Luck!

 

[Jimbodaman]

Since you are still planning you should make your day long enough to do a partigyle. I am glad I did when I made my barleywine. It gives you something to drink while waiting for the big beer to condition.

Good Luck!

That's exactly what I was just thinking I've never done a partigyle but I was just gonna "get what I get" as far as gravity/volume for my barleywine with my normal batch sparge procedure, then add 2 gal of 168 F water and run it off into my small pot and boil it on the stove with a 1/2 oz of galena I have lying around.

 

[Brewenstein]

I usually get 72-75% efficiency with normal 1.055ish beers so I'll bump up the Munich a pound. 2 lbs of crystal does feel like way too much for a normal beer I thought everything was bumped up to the max.

I used to think that also. But from reading the forum and then from my own experience, I learned that for the most part, specialty grains don't get increased in the same proportion as base malts when making a larger beer. .75 lbs should be fine. Good luck!