Another craft brewery bites the dust...

[madscientist451]

There are now more than 3,000 breweries in the U.S. If you want to buy beer produced by a small brewery, its generally available.
The same people complaining about big corporations also buy gasoline, cars, food products, clothes and entertainment from huge multi-level corporations. You can't get away from it. As homebrewers, almost all our grain comes from big companies. A local pub serves a goose island IPA, its not as good as my homebrew IPA, but still way better than mich ultra. The big breweries will continue to buy up regional breweries, but that in turn leaves an opening for small upstart brewers to offer an alternative. Everyone wins.

 

[Silentdrinker]

Since you can see the future, can you please tell me how my job interview is going to go next week? Thanks!

Sorry to let you down, but they'll go with another candidate.

 

[bondra76]

what's to hate? every small business owner's dream is to have a large corporation overpay for their company

 

[Falcon3]

Wow, I'm amazed at the amount of short-sighted people here. Use your money to support something you love. If you think AB shares that love, you're fooling yourself.

Won't be drinking Elysian EVER again.

Won't be drinking 10 Barrel ever again

Goose Island IPA tastes like lemon piss

 

[Calichusetts]

No matter what compelling argument anyone makes in this thread...all I can think is:

More bourbon country for me!

 

[jensek]

Wow, I'm amazed at the amount of short-sighted people here. Use your money to support something you love. If you think AB shares that love, you're fooling yourself.

Won't be drinking Elysian EVER again.

Won't be drinking 10 Barrel ever again

Goose Island IPA tastes like lemon piss

LOL. You are mistaking shortsightedness for preference. If you think it’s a mistake you are free to open up a brewery.

Inbev made an offer to buy a brewery. Both parties agreed to it. End of story. Meanwhile….two or three new breweries opened up that same day. You have more beer choices than ever before. The genie is out of the bottle.

 

[kombat]

It's not a win for anyone but their investors.

So become one of their investors.

I bought InBev shares years ago, before some of the more recent mergers (including AB), and it's turned out to be one of my best investments.

Keep it up, AB-InBev.

 

[kombat]

I think for most of us.... its not wanting to support a company that has bullied vendors, distributors and whoever else they can to gain an advantage..

Unlike other companies? I take it you're not a fan of capitalism? What would you propose as an alternative?

Plus the fact they ultimately are more worried about profits for their shareholders than anything else.

What should a corporation be focused on? What's the most important thing to any business, if not making money?

Though it seems it might start getting harder to know who InBev owns if they keep it up.

Google to the rescue.

Spending 30-50 million on a brand/brewery is nothing to them.

They're not going to buy a brewery just for the sake of buying it. If they're buying someone, it's because they think it can improve their profits.

 

[kombat]

But I try to be a "locavore" support family and small business, local beer, local farming, etc. to whatever reasonable degree you can.

Why?

Seriously, why? Why is it seen as more virtuous to "buy local?" Why is your neighbor more worthy of a job than someone working on the canning line in Golden, Colorado?

It would be wonderful if all mega breweries lost broad distribution because locals and nanos dominated this industry. But I doubt it'll ever happen.

Why would that be "wonderful?" Do those people deserve to lose their jobs because they had the audacity to work for a stable, successful company, rather than a risky, local startup?

 

[kombat]

I hardly consider bud light a good product.

Then why do so many people buy it?

"Advertising," I can hear you saying. But is that really it? Is Budweiser on top strictly because they spend the most on advertising? Do people who would otherwise buy Dogfish Head, or nothing at all, buy Bud just because they saw a commercial? Surely they actually like the beer they're drinking, or they wouldn't keep going back to the store and buying more, would they? Is advertising so powerful that it can compel someone to go to the store and buy something they don't even like? If so, then why wouldn't EVERY business just pour every dollar they could muster into advertising?

I think more accurately, YOU don't like Bud Light. But you must concede that an enormous number of people do, certainly more than would like Elysian's offerings. Maybe someday that will change as peoples' pallettes become more sophisticated, or maybe people will still prefer a Big Mac over Five Guys. There's a lot to be said for consistency, predictability, and price. I think advertising is the smallest piece of that puzzle, especially these days when everyone has Tivos and skips over commercials.

 

[edroberts]

Yes... not a fan of AB or some of the recent big acquisitions as it CAN bring negative consequences to employees, culture, and quality at some point.

HOWEVER, please don't bad-mouth a company simply for wanting to make money. If you ask any brewery (or any business out there that isn't NFP) if they are in business to break even, and they'll laugh at you. Sure, sacrificing ethics for making an obscene amount of money is one thing. But simply making money is a goal for all businesses.

 

[mcartt11]

As a consumer, I spend my money the way I want. I decide if I want to support local or some huge multinational corporations. In some cases there aren't options (oil/gas) and some case the options are many (brewers).

Seems like a lot of the comments are that these guys sold out and that is definitely the case, but let's not begrudge them the fact they just did what they have probably wanted to do all along. To say that this shocks you, really means that you must have had your head in the sand. For any small business owner there comes a time when they have to decide if they are in it for love or in it for money. When a local brewery expands to become a regional brewery, in my opinion that is the point where they made the decision that they were in it for the money. So in this case, the signs were there that despite the clever ant corporate marketing, they have really been all about the money and that it was probably just a matter of time before the offer became something that they couldn't refuse.

I don't have any problem at all with them selling. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. I can tell brewers and others how I feel about them by the way I spend my money.

 

[kombat]

Lol, keep on supporting them then, homie! That's your right... Turn a blind eye because, "it's businss."

I've always been fascinated by the hypocrisy of people who decry corporate tactics (i.e., capitalism), yet demand a consistent return on their retirement accounts and pension funds. Where do you think those 9-12% gains per year come from? Big, evil corporations, who focus on profit above all else. You can't have it both ways.

Keep buying their beer. All you're doing is sending your American dollars to another country.

Hmm. What kind of car do you drive? What kind of phone do you use? What kind of TV is in your living room? Where does the tag on your shirt say it was made?

Pot, I've got someone I think you'd like to meet: Mr. Kettle.

Before you were supporting a local business where that money stayed in the community. Now, it goes into the pockets of the 10% who own 90% of the worlds money.

Nonsense, there's absolutely nothing preventing you from buying shares of AB-InBev yourself. I personally own several thousand dollars' worth, and it's been a great investment. Am I part of the world's elite 10%? Hardly. I'm a lowly government worker.

While you're at it, Keep buying those products in China that utilize slave labor and support that industry.

Budweiser is made in China by slave labour??? Holy crap, all this time I thought it was brewed in St. Louis, Missouri, (by Americans, by the way). You need to blow the lid off this story!

But, once InBev gets enough power to lobby against the production of homebrew,

Huh?? Didn't the last two states finally legalize home brewing in the last couple of years? What evidence do you have that this is suddenly going to reverse? You are really crafting some wild strawmen arguments here, Silent. If you have to resort to totally baseless fearmongering to make your case, you've already lost.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

Why?

Seriously, why? Why is it seen as more virtuous to "buy local?" Why is your neighbor more worthy of a job than someone working on the canning line in Golden, Colorado?
-- Well first off local businesses are American businesses, that's the big reason. Craft breweries are not a threat to AB InBev and they keep the big boys on their toes. The mega breweries and their distributors control/own most of the beer lines(Taps) in the bulk of all restaurants and pubs. So they pretty much control what beer gets served except for the few craft brew pubs around. So local breweries need our support to keep growing.


Why would that be "wonderful?" Do those people deserve to lose their jobs because they had the audacity to work for a stable, successful company, rather than a risky, local startup?

The local startup provides jobs as well. Plus you have the benefit of not being just an insignificant cog in the Big Machine. I wish the craft brewing business was this strong when I was looking for a career change. Safe is not always living.

 

[Cyclman]

Why?

Seriously, why? Why is it seen as more virtuous to "buy local?" Why is your neighbor more worthy of a job than someone working on the canning line in Golden, Colorado?



Why would that be "wonderful?" Do those people deserve to lose their jobs because they had the audacity to work for a stable, successful company, rather than a risky, local startup?

Ha, ha- trick question, Golden, CO is local to me, it's only one hour away.

I support local because of a number of reasons. First, I do want my community to be a community of producers- there is nothing more honorable than crafting something, and sharing it with someone locally who appreciates it. Whether it be great wood fired pizza, beer, or other crafted goods. Second, I can be involved in governmental decisions regarding local production- safety, quality, employee health, wages, etc. Some of the toxic foods and products coming out of Asia, not to mention the rampant pollution there- are terrifying for the future of those populations and the planet. Third- there are many things where local production is impossibly inefficient- cars, electronics, etc. so I support those where local can be efficient. Fourth- I work in a fairly large and fast growing company- the more "corporate" a company gets, the less connection with employees, suppliers, customers- it becomes more dollar driven and far less personal as you grow, in general. Fifth- I despise the way huge companies use their political clout to squeeze others to their benefit- look at BMC, GE, GM, etc. Maybe it's different in your area, but in CO- there are many great jobs in brewing, probably more stable than those working for fortune 100 companies that lay people off at a whim. I think long term sustainability for everyone (except maybe the 1%ers who now own 1/2 of the total planet's wealth) is with local business. I am a genuine fan of the middle class- not the 1%ers, not the long-term welfare leeches- but those who work hard, honestly, and with passion towards what they do. I see lots of this in craft brewing, and love it. :rockin:

 

[bford]

This thread is over.. Kombat is smarter than every one of you... even me.. and that is difficult to do...


He's right about everything.. anything we think is idiotic....



Even though everything he has brought up is easy to rebuttal, there is no reason to as he won't take any time to really think about it..

So thanks for being the smartest person in any room you walk into.... we are lucky to have you here.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Why?

Seriously, why? Why is it seen as more virtuous to "buy local?" Why is your neighbor more worthy of a job than someone working on the canning line in Golden, Colorado?

I don't know if it's more "virtuous" but the more money spent in my community, the better chances of that money improving my own life in a multitude of ways.

 

[grainbill]

"sell out". Guess I don't need to remissness about the brews I used to drink there. Won't be patronizing them on my next visit to Seattle. Bud ruined Red Hook, wonder how long it will be before Elysian is toast.....

 

[hunter_le five]

Just because Company A buys the ownership stake from the owners of Company B doesn't automatically mean Company A will impose unilateral changes across Company B's business practices. In fact, it's often in their best interest not to, if Company B is performing well. Likewise, it's common to leave the original management of Company B intact and in control of day-to-day operations.

Not saying AB-InBev's acquisitions follow this pattern, but just because The Big Guy buys up The Little Guy doesn't automatically mean everything goes to ****.

 

[riderkb]

This thread is over.. Kombat is smarter than every one of you... even me.. and that is difficult to do...


He's right about everything.. anything we think is idiotic....



Even though everything he has brought up is easy to rebuttal, there is no reason to as he won't take any time to really think about it..

So thanks for being the smartest person in any room you walk into.... we are lucky to have you here.

Kombat understands economics, the findings of which are often counterintuitive. It is frustrating for people like him to talk to regular folks. He's like a doctor trying to explain that the flu isn't caused by witchcraft. Economics-literate people often loose their cool when they hear popular ideas that are false. Like the idea that China is hurting us by "flooding the market with low cost goods made with cheap labor" are all over the place and totally bogus. Some get it, some don't.

 

[tagz]

Kombat understands economics, the findings of which are often counterintuitive. It is frustrating for people like him to talk to regular folks. He's like a doctor trying to explain that the flu isn't caused by witchcraft. Economics-literate people often loose their cool when they hear popular ideas that are false. Like the idea that China is hurting us by "flooding the market with low cost goods made with cheap labor" are all over the place and totally bogus. Some get it, some don't.

Well China does manipulate their currency to make their goods cheaper...

 

[brick_haus]

^^^OH SNAP!^^^

Everytime I read the title of this thread I cant help from thinking that the craft brewery did NOT "bite the dust". Rather, they "drank the fruit of their labor".

 

[LandoLincoln]

Wow, I'm amazed at the amount of short-sighted people here. Use your money to support something you love. If you think AB shares that love, you're fooling yourself.

Won't be drinking Elysian EVER again.

Won't be drinking 10 Barrel ever again

Goose Island IPA tastes like lemon piss

"I won't ever drink another Elysian beer EVER AGAIN!
I won't ever drink another 10 Barrel beer EVER AGAIN!
I won't drink another Goose Island beer...well...except for the Bourbon County Brand Stouts. And their Matilda. And their Sofie. But their IPA is RIGHT OUT!"

Scruples run abundant in this thread.

 

[seigex]

I've always been fascinated by the hypocrisy of people who decry corporate tactics (i.e., capitalism), yet demand a consistent return on their retirement accounts and pension funds. Where do you think those 9-12% gains per year come from? Big, evil corporations, who focus on profit above all else. You can't have it both ways.



Hmm. What kind of car do you drive? What kind of phone do you use? What kind of TV is in your living room? Where does the tag on your shirt say it was made?

Pot, I've got someone I think you'd like to meet: Mr. Kettle.



Nonsense, there's absolutely nothing preventing you from buying shares of AB-InBev yourself. I personally own several thousand dollars' worth, and it's been a great investment. Am I part of the world's elite 10%? Hardly. I'm a lowly government worker.



Budweiser is made in China by slave labour??? Holy crap, all this time I thought it was brewed in St. Louis, Missouri, (by Americans, by the way). You need to blow the lid off this story!



Huh?? Didn't the last two states finally legalize home brewing in the last couple of years? What evidence do you have that this is suddenly going to reverse? You are really crafting some wild strawmen arguments here, Silent. If you have to resort to totally baseless fearmongering to make your case, you've already lost.

Damn, didn't get a chance to respond, but no need to now. This ^^. After reading Silentdrinker's response, I thought I somehow got transferred to some occupy wall street blog.

 

[Falcon3]

Scruples run abundant in this thread.

This better for you?

Things I haven't spent 1 penny on since understanding who it was owned by and the philosophy of the parent company/a real "craft" brew was bought out by InBev/similar:

Redhook
Goose Island
Leinenkugels
10 Barrel
Elysian
Magic Hat
Pyramid
Widmer


I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting/haven't been educated about, but seriously people, let's support what we believe in, and leave the rest to the uneducated masses.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

If a fox bites a bear's ass enough times, eventually the bear is going to turn around and eat the fox.

 

[bob1852]

This better for you?

Things I haven't spent 1 penny on since understanding who it was owned by and the philosophy of the parent company/a real "craft" brew was bought out by InBev/similar:

Redhook
Goose Island
Leinenkugels
10 Barrel
Elysian
Magic Hat
Pyramid
Widmer


I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting/haven't been educated about, but seriously people, let's support what we believe in, and leave the rest to the uneducated masses.

So, if you haven't been educated about some of them, doesn't that make you part of the "uneducated masses"?

 

[k1ngl1ves]

I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting/haven't been educated about, but seriously people, let's support what we believe in, and leave the rest to the uneducated masses.

I believe in home brewing.

Once a home brewer opens his/her own brewery though, I lump it into the same pile as all the rest... including Bud, Miller, and Coors. Beer for profit. The bottom line is important for all businesses, and none of these breweries are any different.

If you don't think they're the same, give me one example of a licensed brewery that gives away all their beer for free. If you find one, I'll categorize it into a third pile.

 

[LandoLincoln]

a real "craft" brew

That term is so nebulous it may as well not exist.

"Well, it has to be brewed with traditional methods and traditional ingredients. Well, mostly traditional ingredients. Most of the time. And it has to be brewed by a small, independent brewery. Mostly independent, anyway. And breweries that don't produce more than 6 million barrels a year are still 'small,' right?"

If their beer tastes good to me, then I'll drink it.
If it doesn't, then I won't.
I'll cut the little brewers some slack since they have a harder time keeping their ducks in a row, but not much.

 

[bob1852]

How many times has BA changed the definition of "craft" solely so Sam Adams still fits?

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

This thread is over.. Kombat is smarter than every one of you... even me.. and that is difficult to do...


He's right about everything.. anything we think is idiotic....



Even though everything he has brought up is easy to rebuttal, there is no reason to as he won't take any time to really think about it..

So thanks for being the smartest person in any room you walk into.... we are lucky to have you here.

Great sarcasm, obviously a legend in his own mind. Best to just give them a wide berth.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

Being bought out by AB In Bev is not the end. We will be seeing a serious shakeout in small breweries in the years to come - just because of saturation. Sad but true, True Craft Brewers won't sellout. There are some that do this not for love of the holy dollar, but because they love what they do and take pride in it. That is what is lost when breweries are bought out by conglomerates. Sadly there are certain "if it makes me rich it is good" types that just don't get it. If you value profits above all else, including your employees you have become what is wrong with this country.

 

[Bensiff]

I find it fascinating that folks would choose their beer based on an anti corporate ideology with a prejudiced assumption that a corporate entity necessitates employees are miserable and apparently put out bad products; instead of who has a good product and/or a nice establishment that you enjoy. Me, I'll sit here on my iPhone, regardless of Apples "obscene" profits, and enjoy whatever beer sounds like it would taste good for the mood I'm in while saying you folks have a silly dogma.

 

[brewguyver]

<ramble>Damn. If only someone would invent some kind of special tool ... we'll call it ... A Search Engine ... and a place where people can interact like ... an Internet (calling Al Gore) so we can find out what breweries match our ethical principals. And maybe by then we'll be able to do that search in a flying car ... and fly to the tiny local microbreweries who don't believe in making a profit, and can magically make a living giving away free beer ...

Sometimes it amazes me how some people on this board can figure out how to coax enzymes and single cell fungi to produce delicious beverages and yet have so little business sense. That or they're angry that some other homebrewer hit the big time instead of themselves (eff you ... it should have been me!!!).

I do understand the concerns about the workers, but if they didn't put up their life savings to start the brewery, and didn't take big personal risks to make it successful, then they don't deserve the windfall. If there were some people who worked their ass off and didn't get recognized ... the owners will learn karma's a *****.

So crack a homebrew, or a lemon piss goose island IPA, or whatever you want to drink, and chill.

In closing "Sell out, with me oh yea. Sell out, with me all right. The [brewing] company is gonna pay me lots of money and everything's going to be, all, right."
</ramble>

 

[ciderWI]

Since deregulation, beer seems to be one of the most perfect free markets in existence. Quality is becoming more important than marketing (the majors haven't seemed to figure that out yet). Startup costs are low enough that it's not impossible to bootstrap another microbrewery, and there's a lot of passionate and talented brewers who would like to do exactly that. My point here is that if small non-corporate breweries make the best beer, there will always be great beer available from breweries that aren't multinational corporations.

Having been a principal in three startups, I'm a believer in helping the little guy get going. It's convenient that the best beers available in my local stores and favorite restaurants are great local and regional brews. Goose Island still makes some good beer, but since I have a choice I'd rather order a New Glarus or Lakefront or Central Waters or ...

 

[Bensiff]

Since deregulation, beer seems to be one of the most perfect free markets in existence. Quality is becoming more important than marketing (the majors haven't seemed to figure that out yet). Startup costs are low enough that it's not impossible to bootstrap another microbrewery, and there's a lot of passionate and talented brewers who would like to do exactly that. My point here is that if small non-corporate breweries make the best beer, there will always be great beer available from breweries that aren't multinational corporations.

Having been a principal in three startups, I'm a believer in helping the little guy get going. It's convenient that the best beers available in my local stores and favorite restaurants are great local and regional brews. Goose Island still makes some good beer, but since I have a choice I'd rather order a New Glarus or Lakefront or Central Waters or ...

Now we are talking a little sense. I'm not a big fan of corporations as I believe in capitalism not corporatism. But, by and large most corporations in the US operate cleanly and provide good products at a reasonable price. That being said, living in the PNW we have no shortage of good breweries large and small. Often times the ones that are a little larger make better beer because they have the financial resources to up the quality and there is something to be said about that. However, often I find myself going to ones that operate on 3-5 bbl as much as those running 15+ bbl systems. They don't always make a better product or a different product...there is however a bit of satisfaction in being a small part of helping get someones dream going. Even more, I enjoy talking to the guys and gals working their little breweries. Often they are full of enthusiasm and truly love beer and enjoy talking about it and love the fact that people are showing up and happily paying for their product.

 

[brick_haus]

I, for one, am an employee of a small company that was consumed by the evil large corporation (unfortunately not in the beer manufacturing business). It's been horrible over the last three years since the buy out. Here's my personal experience, please send your pity.

1. I recieved a severance from the small company. One week of salary for every year of service. 20 years for me.
2. A 20% pay increase right from the start.
3. Increase from $1000 company matched 401K to 7% matching.
4. Slightly better health benefits as the buying power of the large corperation is greater.
5. Increase from $2500 annual bonus to a 15% target annual bonus.
6. There is no longer a ceiling, I can now be promoted into a higher position. Before there was no room to "grow".
7. 2 promotions in three years has doubled my salary. Thats more increase in pay than the previous 20 years with the small company.

Here's the down side. The poor unfortunate underperforming employees were all laid off. And they were only given the same week/years service severance from the small consumed company AND a paycheck every week for one year and continuation of their medical benefits as a severance compensation from the horrible, ugle large coproration...
We kept the performers onboard.

 

[tagz]

I, for one, am an employee of a small company that was consumed by the evil large corporation (unfortunately not in the beer manufacturing business). It's been horrible over the last three years since the buy out. Here's my personal experience, please send your pity.



1. I recieved a severance from the small company. One week of salary for every year of service. 20 years for me.

2. A 20% pay increase right from the start.

3. Increase from $1000 company matched 401K to 7% matching.

4. Slightly better health benefits as the buying power of the large corperation is greater.

5. Increase from $2500 annual bonus to a 15% target annual bonus.

6. There is no longer a ceiling, I can now be promoted into a higher position. Before there was no room to "grow".

7. 2 promotions in three years has doubled my salary. Thats more increase in pay than the previous 20 years with the small company.



Here's the down side. The poor unfortunate underperforming employees were all laid off. And they were only given the same week/years service severance from the small consumed company AND a paycheck every week for one year and continuation of their medical benefits as a severance compensation from the horrible, ugle large coproration...

We kept the performers onboard.

Well I'm convinced. Let's go full on neoliberal free market. It worked out really well in Latin America.

 

[brick_haus]

Well I'm convinced. Let's go full on neoliberal free market. It worked out really well in Latin America.

I guess you're right. We certainly do not want the private sector to be the driving force behind our economy. We all know what a failure Reagans policies were.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I, for one, am an employee of a small company that was consumed by the evil large corporation (unfortunately not in the beer manufacturing business). It's been horrible over the last three years since the buy out. Here's my personal experience, please send your pity.

1. I recieved a severance from the small company. One week of salary for every year of service. 20 years for me.
2. A 20% pay increase right from the start.
3. Increase from $1000 company matched 401K to 7% matching.
4. Slightly better health benefits as the buying power of the large corperation is greater.
5. Increase from $2500 annual bonus to a 15% target annual bonus.
6. There is no longer a ceiling, I can now be promoted into a higher position. Before there was no room to "grow".
7. 2 promotions in three years has doubled my salary. Thats more increase in pay than the previous 20 years with the small company.

Here's the down side. The poor unfortunate underperforming employees were all laid off. And they were only given the same week/years service severance from the small consumed company AND a paycheck every week for one year and continuation of their medical benefits as a severance compensation from the horrible, ugle large coproration...
We kept the performers onboard.

My company was purchased by a private equity firm. This is what THEY did to my company:
1. Fired about 1/2 of the workforce at my company's HQ to skeleton crew levels. Need something done and somebody's on vacation or sick? Too damn bad. You're going to have to wait for them to get back.
2. Sold all of the real estate that my company owned
3. Leased all of the same real estate that they just sold.
4. Pocketed all of the money that they made from the sale of the real estate.
5. Stopped all manner of bonuses.
6. Started to complain about how much money we're wasting on overhead, like...oh, I dunno...RENT that we never had to pay before.

The Elysium guys could have sold the business to a private equity firm. It's a good thing for the employees that they left behind that they didn't.