Another craft brewery bites the dust...

[muels]

Why would anyone turn down a profit. It's a business! If I could create a business, bust my butt to make it successful, then sell it for enough profit to retire... Count me in. We are home brewers, these are businesses. They have a life and families to consider. Who are we to judge them for making a business decision.


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[Charleston]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1422195338.432233.jpg

 

[soccerdad]

Here's a story (happened last year) on the opposite side of all this: http://www.commonsbrewery.com/blog/ (second blog post)

They're another NW brewery here in PDX. Found out InBev bought out the distributor they were using, so they got out to go back to self distribution. He felt inbev's business model was different to his.

Glad you posted this Silent -

It points to another critical point of this crazy beer distribution game that becomes vital to small, independent brewers. Each state writes their own rules as it relates to the 3 Tier System but still within the 3 Tier System. ABI is allowed to own a distributor in OR, but not in some other states. The lobbyists for the beer whoresalers in FL and GA use this to strike fear into the hearts of their membership and the politicians they own. They contend that ALL self distribution is bad because ABI (those evil Belgians) is trying to set up self distribution nationwide (cutting out the wholesalers) .. so they lobby to keep a current broken system for fear of what a new system might yield. Money in campaign chests rules, but fear marches alongside.

 

[seigex]

I hardly consider bud light a good product. But ok... I think another approach of profiting is to dominate the market and massive advertising. Look at Dr. Dre beats. They're garbage headphones with the most elaborate advertising. So no, it isn't about a good product. Some would argue beer has 5 main ingredients."water, malt, hops, yeast and advertising." Don't believe me? Watch the super bowl in feb.

Whether you, or I, personally think bud light, or Beats, are good products is inconsequential in the market. There are millions who believe it is, whether it be by marketing, or for some odd reason, they just like the product. Opinions are just that, opinions. It's a businessman's job to make a fool part with his money, whether a corporate business, or a privately held company. I know many non-corporate breweries whose beer I can't stand, yet they have customers.

Here's a story (happened last year) on the opposite side of all this: http://www.commonsbrewery.com/blog/ (second blog post)

They're another NW brewery here in PDX. Found out InBev bought out the distributor they were using, so they got out to go back to self distribution. He felt inbev's business model was different to his.[/QUOTE]

This is how business works. InBev bought the distributor because either the distributor couldn't make it in today's market, or they wanted to make a return on their investment and cash out. Brewery doesn't like their business model, so they decide to do it on their own. If ABInBev wants their business back, they have to introduce the model, or some other way to attract them back. The Commons Brewery now gets to distribute based on the model they want, and can pitch that model to other breweries, take on new customers, and grow until they are bought out by ABInBev and get to cash out as well. Sounds like how things are suppose to work to me, and definitely doesn't make ABI evil by any means.

 

[Silentdrinker]

Whether you, or I, personally think bud light, or Beats, are good products is inconsequential in the market. There are millions who believe it is, whether it be by marketing, or for some odd reason, they just like the product. Opinions are just that, opinions. It's a businessman's job to make a fool part with his money, whether a corporate business, or a privately held company. I know many non-corporate breweries whose beer I can't stand, yet they have customers.

They're another NW brewery here in PDX. Found out InBev bought out the distributor they were using, so they got out to go back to self distribution. He felt inbev's business model was different to his.

This is how business works. InBev bought the distributor because either the distributor couldn't make it in today's market, or they wanted to make a return on their investment and cash out. Brewery doesn't like their business model, so they decide to do it on their own. If ABInBev wants their business back, they have to introduce the model, or some other way to attract them back. The Commons Brewery now gets to distribute based on the model they want, and can pitch that model to other breweries, take on new customers, and grow until they are bought out by ABInBev and get to cash out as well. Sounds like how things are suppose to work to me, and definitely doesn't make ABI evil by any means.

Lol, keep on supporting them then, homie! That's your right... Turn a blind eye because, "it's businss."

Keep buying their beer. All you're doing is sending your American dollars to another country. Before you were supporting a local business where that money stayed in the community. Now, it goes into the pockets of the 10% who own 90% of the worlds money. Those same people who lobby to keep the poor man down to profit. Again, it's businss!

While you're at it, Keep buying those products in China that utilize slave labor and support that industry. You're an American, it doesn't affect you. i mean it is simply all about profits because it's simply business. How could there be any down side to it. Turn a blind eye, you'll never be affected... It's not like Walmart who profited over $17billion made YOU as a tax payer she'll out $3billion to support their under paid staff members. (Reference link on post #12)

We all get it. Everyone who is in support of corporate take over keeps referencing, "it's business. That's how it works." Businesses need profits to stay alive. We understand. That's NOT the issue, so everyone who keeps pointing this out can stop.

But, once InBev gets enough power to lobby against the production of homebrew, and they tighten regulations for small breweries to make it damn near impossible for them to exist, you will be the loudest of them all to stop that $h|t.

 

[user 30639]

They can't. They would have had to sign a non compete for the acquisition to go through. So they won't be able to do anything for a few years at best. The employees will be the ones to suffer in all this. Moral will decline as corporate ethics take over. The very essence of what a craft brewery is about will be sucked dry in efforts to maintain maximum profit.

Since you can see the future, can you please tell me how my job interview is going to go next week? Thanks!

 

[bob1852]

InBev is doing a great job smashing the little guys. I mean, there's only more breweries in this country now, then, ah, ever.

 

[teleplucker]

I thought they already owned Elysium or had a significant investment. Having spent a fair numbers of evenings at the brewpub in Seattle when I used to travel there on business, I hope they don't muck it up. The food and beer was very good.

On a side note, I went to Hardly Strictly in SF last fall and was amazed at the predominance of craft beer that was packed in. There was a bit of BMC, but 80+% was craft. The market is, indeed, changing.

 

[jensek]

"Keep buying their beer. All you're doing is sending your American dollars to another country."

US dollars always come back to the US because you need US dollars to buy products from the US. So US dollars don't go overseas and stay there unless someone is stuffing it in their mattress.

"Before you were supporting a local business where that money stayed in the community."

Complete BS. Your local brewery is not getting all its supplies locally. They are sourcing ingredients from around the world.

"While you're at it, Keep buying those products in China that utilize slave labor and support that industry."

You make sure keep posting on this message board from your computer/phone/tablet that was made completely in the US and sourced from all US materials.


"But, once InBev gets enough power to lobby against the production of homebrew, and they tighten regulations for small breweries to make it damn near impossible for them to exist, you will be the loudest of them all to stop that $h|t."

Red herring much?

 

[jensek]

"Keep buying their beer. All you're doing is sending your American dollars to another country."

US dollars always come back to the US because you need US dollars to buy products from the US. So US dollars don't go overseas and stay there unless someone is stuffing it in their mattress.

"Before you were supporting a local business where that money stayed in the community."

Complete BS. Your local brewery is not getting all its supplies locally. They are sourcing ingredients from around the world.

"While you're at it, Keep buying those products in China that utilize slave labor and support that industry."

You make sure keep posting on this message board from your computer/phone/tablet that was made completely in the US and sourced from all US materials.


"But, once InBev gets enough power to lobby against the production of homebrew, and they tighten regulations for small breweries to make it damn near impossible for them to exist, you will be the loudest of them all to stop that $h|t."

Red herring much?

 

[madscientist451]

There are now more than 3,000 breweries in the U.S. If you want to buy beer produced by a small brewery, its generally available.
The same people complaining about big corporations also buy gasoline, cars, food products, clothes and entertainment from huge multi-level corporations. You can't get away from it. As homebrewers, almost all our grain comes from big companies. A local pub serves a goose island IPA, its not as good as my homebrew IPA, but still way better than mich ultra. The big breweries will continue to buy up regional breweries, but that in turn leaves an opening for small upstart brewers to offer an alternative. Everyone wins.

 

[Silentdrinker]

Since you can see the future, can you please tell me how my job interview is going to go next week? Thanks!

Sorry to let you down, but they'll go with another candidate.

 

[bondra76]

what's to hate? every small business owner's dream is to have a large corporation overpay for their company

 

[Falcon3]

Wow, I'm amazed at the amount of short-sighted people here. Use your money to support something you love. If you think AB shares that love, you're fooling yourself.

Won't be drinking Elysian EVER again.

Won't be drinking 10 Barrel ever again

Goose Island IPA tastes like lemon piss

 

[Calichusetts]

No matter what compelling argument anyone makes in this thread...all I can think is:

More bourbon country for me!

 

[jensek]

Wow, I'm amazed at the amount of short-sighted people here. Use your money to support something you love. If you think AB shares that love, you're fooling yourself.

Won't be drinking Elysian EVER again.

Won't be drinking 10 Barrel ever again

Goose Island IPA tastes like lemon piss

LOL. You are mistaking shortsightedness for preference. If you think it’s a mistake you are free to open up a brewery.

Inbev made an offer to buy a brewery. Both parties agreed to it. End of story. Meanwhile….two or three new breweries opened up that same day. You have more beer choices than ever before. The genie is out of the bottle.

 

[kombat]

It's not a win for anyone but their investors.

So become one of their investors.

I bought InBev shares years ago, before some of the more recent mergers (including AB), and it's turned out to be one of my best investments.

Keep it up, AB-InBev.

 

[kombat]

I think for most of us.... its not wanting to support a company that has bullied vendors, distributors and whoever else they can to gain an advantage..

Unlike other companies? I take it you're not a fan of capitalism? What would you propose as an alternative?

Plus the fact they ultimately are more worried about profits for their shareholders than anything else.

What should a corporation be focused on? What's the most important thing to any business, if not making money?

Though it seems it might start getting harder to know who InBev owns if they keep it up.

Google to the rescue.

Spending 30-50 million on a brand/brewery is nothing to them.

They're not going to buy a brewery just for the sake of buying it. If they're buying someone, it's because they think it can improve their profits.

 

[kombat]

But I try to be a "locavore" support family and small business, local beer, local farming, etc. to whatever reasonable degree you can.

Why?

Seriously, why? Why is it seen as more virtuous to "buy local?" Why is your neighbor more worthy of a job than someone working on the canning line in Golden, Colorado?

It would be wonderful if all mega breweries lost broad distribution because locals and nanos dominated this industry. But I doubt it'll ever happen.

Why would that be "wonderful?" Do those people deserve to lose their jobs because they had the audacity to work for a stable, successful company, rather than a risky, local startup?

 

[kombat]

I hardly consider bud light a good product.

Then why do so many people buy it?

"Advertising," I can hear you saying. But is that really it? Is Budweiser on top strictly because they spend the most on advertising? Do people who would otherwise buy Dogfish Head, or nothing at all, buy Bud just because they saw a commercial? Surely they actually like the beer they're drinking, or they wouldn't keep going back to the store and buying more, would they? Is advertising so powerful that it can compel someone to go to the store and buy something they don't even like? If so, then why wouldn't EVERY business just pour every dollar they could muster into advertising?

I think more accurately, YOU don't like Bud Light. But you must concede that an enormous number of people do, certainly more than would like Elysian's offerings. Maybe someday that will change as peoples' pallettes become more sophisticated, or maybe people will still prefer a Big Mac over Five Guys. There's a lot to be said for consistency, predictability, and price. I think advertising is the smallest piece of that puzzle, especially these days when everyone has Tivos and skips over commercials.

 

[edroberts]

Yes... not a fan of AB or some of the recent big acquisitions as it CAN bring negative consequences to employees, culture, and quality at some point.

HOWEVER, please don't bad-mouth a company simply for wanting to make money. If you ask any brewery (or any business out there that isn't NFP) if they are in business to break even, and they'll laugh at you. Sure, sacrificing ethics for making an obscene amount of money is one thing. But simply making money is a goal for all businesses.

 

[mcartt11]

As a consumer, I spend my money the way I want. I decide if I want to support local or some huge multinational corporations. In some cases there aren't options (oil/gas) and some case the options are many (brewers).

Seems like a lot of the comments are that these guys sold out and that is definitely the case, but let's not begrudge them the fact they just did what they have probably wanted to do all along. To say that this shocks you, really means that you must have had your head in the sand. For any small business owner there comes a time when they have to decide if they are in it for love or in it for money. When a local brewery expands to become a regional brewery, in my opinion that is the point where they made the decision that they were in it for the money. So in this case, the signs were there that despite the clever ant corporate marketing, they have really been all about the money and that it was probably just a matter of time before the offer became something that they couldn't refuse.

I don't have any problem at all with them selling. They aren't the first and they won't be the last. I can tell brewers and others how I feel about them by the way I spend my money.

 

[kombat]

Lol, keep on supporting them then, homie! That's your right... Turn a blind eye because, "it's businss."

I've always been fascinated by the hypocrisy of people who decry corporate tactics (i.e., capitalism), yet demand a consistent return on their retirement accounts and pension funds. Where do you think those 9-12% gains per year come from? Big, evil corporations, who focus on profit above all else. You can't have it both ways.

Keep buying their beer. All you're doing is sending your American dollars to another country.

Hmm. What kind of car do you drive? What kind of phone do you use? What kind of TV is in your living room? Where does the tag on your shirt say it was made?

Pot, I've got someone I think you'd like to meet: Mr. Kettle.

Before you were supporting a local business where that money stayed in the community. Now, it goes into the pockets of the 10% who own 90% of the worlds money.

Nonsense, there's absolutely nothing preventing you from buying shares of AB-InBev yourself. I personally own several thousand dollars' worth, and it's been a great investment. Am I part of the world's elite 10%? Hardly. I'm a lowly government worker.

While you're at it, Keep buying those products in China that utilize slave labor and support that industry.

Budweiser is made in China by slave labour??? Holy crap, all this time I thought it was brewed in St. Louis, Missouri, (by Americans, by the way). You need to blow the lid off this story!

But, once InBev gets enough power to lobby against the production of homebrew,

Huh?? Didn't the last two states finally legalize home brewing in the last couple of years? What evidence do you have that this is suddenly going to reverse? You are really crafting some wild strawmen arguments here, Silent. If you have to resort to totally baseless fearmongering to make your case, you've already lost.

 

[BlkWater_brewer]

Why?

Seriously, why? Why is it seen as more virtuous to "buy local?" Why is your neighbor more worthy of a job than someone working on the canning line in Golden, Colorado?
-- Well first off local businesses are American businesses, that's the big reason. Craft breweries are not a threat to AB InBev and they keep the big boys on their toes. The mega breweries and their distributors control/own most of the beer lines(Taps) in the bulk of all restaurants and pubs. So they pretty much control what beer gets served except for the few craft brew pubs around. So local breweries need our support to keep growing.


Why would that be "wonderful?" Do those people deserve to lose their jobs because they had the audacity to work for a stable, successful company, rather than a risky, local startup?

The local startup provides jobs as well. Plus you have the benefit of not being just an insignificant cog in the Big Machine. I wish the craft brewing business was this strong when I was looking for a career change. Safe is not always living.

 

[Cyclman]

Why?

Seriously, why? Why is it seen as more virtuous to "buy local?" Why is your neighbor more worthy of a job than someone working on the canning line in Golden, Colorado?



Why would that be "wonderful?" Do those people deserve to lose their jobs because they had the audacity to work for a stable, successful company, rather than a risky, local startup?

Ha, ha- trick question, Golden, CO is local to me, it's only one hour away.

I support local because of a number of reasons. First, I do want my community to be a community of producers- there is nothing more honorable than crafting something, and sharing it with someone locally who appreciates it. Whether it be great wood fired pizza, beer, or other crafted goods. Second, I can be involved in governmental decisions regarding local production- safety, quality, employee health, wages, etc. Some of the toxic foods and products coming out of Asia, not to mention the rampant pollution there- are terrifying for the future of those populations and the planet. Third- there are many things where local production is impossibly inefficient- cars, electronics, etc. so I support those where local can be efficient. Fourth- I work in a fairly large and fast growing company- the more "corporate" a company gets, the less connection with employees, suppliers, customers- it becomes more dollar driven and far less personal as you grow, in general. Fifth- I despise the way huge companies use their political clout to squeeze others to their benefit- look at BMC, GE, GM, etc. Maybe it's different in your area, but in CO- there are many great jobs in brewing, probably more stable than those working for fortune 100 companies that lay people off at a whim. I think long term sustainability for everyone (except maybe the 1%ers who now own 1/2 of the total planet's wealth) is with local business. I am a genuine fan of the middle class- not the 1%ers, not the long-term welfare leeches- but those who work hard, honestly, and with passion towards what they do. I see lots of this in craft brewing, and love it. :rockin:

 

[bford]

This thread is over.. Kombat is smarter than every one of you... even me.. and that is difficult to do...


He's right about everything.. anything we think is idiotic....



Even though everything he has brought up is easy to rebuttal, there is no reason to as he won't take any time to really think about it..

So thanks for being the smartest person in any room you walk into.... we are lucky to have you here.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Why?

Seriously, why? Why is it seen as more virtuous to "buy local?" Why is your neighbor more worthy of a job than someone working on the canning line in Golden, Colorado?

I don't know if it's more "virtuous" but the more money spent in my community, the better chances of that money improving my own life in a multitude of ways.

 

[grainbill]

"sell out". Guess I don't need to remissness about the brews I used to drink there. Won't be patronizing them on my next visit to Seattle. Bud ruined Red Hook, wonder how long it will be before Elysian is toast.....

 

[hunter_le five]

Just because Company A buys the ownership stake from the owners of Company B doesn't automatically mean Company A will impose unilateral changes across Company B's business practices. In fact, it's often in their best interest not to, if Company B is performing well. Likewise, it's common to leave the original management of Company B intact and in control of day-to-day operations.

Not saying AB-InBev's acquisitions follow this pattern, but just because The Big Guy buys up The Little Guy doesn't automatically mean everything goes to sh!t.

 

[riderkb]

This thread is over.. Kombat is smarter than every one of you... even me.. and that is difficult to do...


He's right about everything.. anything we think is idiotic....



Even though everything he has brought up is easy to rebuttal, there is no reason to as he won't take any time to really think about it..

So thanks for being the smartest person in any room you walk into.... we are lucky to have you here.

Kombat understands economics, the findings of which are often counterintuitive. It is frustrating for people like him to talk to regular folks. He's like a doctor trying to explain that the flu isn't caused by witchcraft. Economics-literate people often loose their cool when they hear popular ideas that are false. Like the idea that China is hurting us by "flooding the market with low cost goods made with cheap labor" are all over the place and totally bogus. Some get it, some don't.