Anchor Brewing

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

shetc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
2,424
Reaction score
2,599
This book is fascinating: Barrel-Aged Stout and Selling Out, by Josh Noel
 

mscroggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
103
Reaction score
37
Anchor Steam beer is one of my favorite beers.

Somehow I missed the news that Anchor Brewing was bought by Japanese mega brewer Sapporo. This happened in August 2017.

I know Anchor Steam is still available, but I'm really bummed as another craft brewer is gobbled up by the big breweries.
Once a Craft Brewery sells to Beer Voltron or someone similar, I never touch them again.. Even if the parent company doesn't interfere with the beer, I can't in good conscience line their pockets and therefore promote the practice. It wasn't that long ago that the US had very few breweries left. Now that we are up in the thousands, I want to keep it that way.

http://www.master-minds.net/brewerylist/fake_beers.html
 

Dland

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
1,368
I did not know they sold, but last time I had some I was thinking it was not as good as I remembered, but then again, my beer taste discernment has expanded lately.
 

S-Met

Department of Redundancy Department.
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
4,991
Reaction score
4,994
Location
Nor Cal
I know Anchor Steam is still available, but I'm really bummed as another craft brewer is gobbled up by the big breweries.
Once a Craft Brewery sells to Beer Voltron or someone similar, I never touch them again.. Even if the parent company doesn't interfere with the beer, I can't in good conscience line their pockets and therefore promote the practice.
Shouldn't you be excited instead of bummed? As homebrewers it's sort of like we're a bunch of kids playing ball in the driveway. As a small microbrewery, it's kind of like we're high school and/or college athletes. However, getting purchased by a major Corp is sort of like finally making it to the big time, becoming a professional. We should be excited when this happens as this is the definition of The American Dream! It is at this point that we as consumers hope that they continue their dream of Quality Beverage and not get lost in the volume.

If Budweiser actually produce really good beer we would all drink that too. It's a good thing they don't because I don't ever have to worry about testing my theory.

I did not know they sold, but last time I had some I was thinking it was not as good as I remembered,
This is what we should be bummed about! Last time I had an Anchor Steam I thought to myself, this kind of tastes like pissweiser only darker.
 

mscroggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
103
Reaction score
37
Shouldn't you be excited instead of bummed? As homebrewers it's sort of like we're a bunch of kids playing ball in the driveway. As a small microbrewery, it's kind of like we're high school and/or college athletes. However, getting purchased by a major Corp is sort of like finally making it to the big time, becoming a professional. We should be excited when this happens as this is the definition of The American Dream! It is at this point that we as consumers hope that they continue their dream of Quality Beverage and not get lost in the volume.

If Budweiser actually produce really good beer we would all drink that too. It's a good thing they don't because I don't ever have to worry about testing my theory.
.
Absolutely not. I suggest you research some of the news items over the last 20 years. AB-Inbev very nearly drove out all competition with very shady and underhanded tactics, coupled with their seemingly bottomless pockets and a massive political lobby.

At the same time AB-Inbev was quietly purchasing a multitude of craft breweries, they were also mocking craft beer in advertising. Their shady practices have been on a global scale. Buying distribution companies to illegally control what can be put on the shelves. Locking down the entire hop crop from South Africa. It goes on and on...

https://www.americancraftbeer.com/n...s-pete-coors-open-letter-brewers-association/

And NO.. I absolutely would not buy Budweiser if they didn't create piss beer. Some of my favorite breweries were purchased by AB-Inbev, and I moved on to other brands instantly. This goes for homebrew supplies as well. I do not purchase from Northern Brewer, or Midwest Supplies.

I cannot support the dishonesty.
 

S-Met

Department of Redundancy Department.
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Messages
4,991
Reaction score
4,994
Location
Nor Cal
Absolutely not. I suggest you research some of the news items over the last 20 years. AB-Inbev very nearly drove out all competition with very shady and underhanded tactics, coupled with their seemingly bottomless pockets and a massive political lobby.

At the same time AB-Inbev was quietly purchasing a multitude of craft breweries, they were also mocking craft beer in advertising. Their shady practices have been on a global scale. Buying distribution companies to illegally control what can be put on the shelves. Locking down the entire hop crop from South Africa. It goes on and on...

https://www.americancraftbeer.com/n...s-pete-coors-open-letter-brewers-association/

And NO.. I absolutely would not buy Budweiser if they didn't create piss beer. Some of my favorite breweries were purchased by AB-Inbev, and I moved on to other brands instantly. This goes for homebrew supplies as well. I do not purchase from Northern Brewer, or Midwest Supplies.

I cannot support the dishonesty.
Your research by no means news to me. Nor does not negate the fact that a small business managed to achieve financial independence against incredible odds. The failure rate of small-business, more than 1/2 do not last a full year. Of those 50% that survive, 50% will be closed by their 5th year. The remainder has a 1/3 likelihood of making it to 10 years - not exactly great odds.

For those who snub the success of a small business for "selling out" to provide lifelong financial stability for themselves (and their families), then look to their departure from the small business community as a new opportunity for more small businesses to bloom.
 

madscientist451

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
5,352
Reaction score
3,075
Location
Bedford
I know Anchor Steam is still available, but I'm really bummed as another craft brewer is gobbled up by the big breweries.
Anchor actually "sold out" to an investment group in 2010, and before that, in 1965, it had "sold out" to an heir to the mega manufacturer of appliances, Fritz Maytag. Without the Maytag money, Anchor would probably have shut down, they were only producing 800 barrels of beer a year and some of it would go sour, they were having lots of problems. The infusion of capital (some inherited and some borrowed from large banks) and Maytag's desire to turn a profit is what made Anchor successful.
So selling out isn't always a bad thing.
I usually don't see Anchor products in this area, but I could probably buy a thousand different beers within an hour drive from my house.
Every year there are more breweries. Attempts by large corporate interests to increase their market share and suppress competition haven't been successful.
 

Dland

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
1,368
I remember when inbev bought out Rolling Rock, which I sometimes drank as "light beer". While not a craft beer, (they were not as available back then) it went from drinkable to bad. They intentionally crashed the brand, moved production from the famous Old Latrobe brewery. That was my first wake up call to what they were up to, not sure of the year, but it was quite a while ago.
 

mscroggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
103
Reaction score
37
Your research by no means news to me. Nor does not negate the fact that a small business managed to achieve financial independence against incredible odds. The failure rate of small-business, more than 1/2 do not last a full year. Of those 50% that survive, 50% will be closed by their 5th year. The remainder has a 1/3 likelihood of making it to 10 years - not exactly great odds.

For those who snub the success of a small business for "selling out" to provide lifelong financial stability for themselves (and their families), then look to their departure from the small business community as a new opportunity for more small businesses to bloom.
Oh please. If Ab-Inbev is left unchecked, there won't even be any small businesses to even attempt success.. We nearly reached that point at one point with ~100 breweries left. The U.S. now has 6788 breweries open in the US, because of mounting resistance to the unscrupulous tactics of AB-Inbev.

In 2016 AB-Inbev was fined 6 million dollars for bribing Indian officials to promote their brand. Currently they are currently facing an anti-trust fine for preventing beer imports into Belgium. The list goes on and on. AB-Inbev has continually acted ilegally to stifle a free marketplace. The numerous lawsuits, probes and interventions by the Justice Department and other entities have at least had a little impact, but it's not enough. I cant in good conscience support them.
 
Last edited:

mscroggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
103
Reaction score
37
Anchor actually "sold out" to an investment group in 2010, and before that, in 1965, it had "sold out" to an heir to the mega manufacturer of appliances, Fritz Maytag. Without the Maytag money, Anchor would probably have shut down, they were only producing 800 barrels of beer a year and some of it would go sour, they were having lots of problems. The infusion of capital (some inherited and some borrowed from large banks) and Maytag's desire to turn a profit is what made Anchor successful.
So selling out isn't always a bad thing.
I usually don't see Anchor products in this area, but I could probably buy a thousand different beers within an hour drive from my house.
Every year there are more breweries. Attempts by large corporate interests to increase their market share and suppress competition haven't been successful.
You missed the point. You are seeing the option of 'a thousand beers within an hour of your house' because a behemoth wasn't allowed to completely monopolize a market. You would not have the selection if Ab-Inbev were allowed to continue unchecked.

Fritz Maytag sold stock in his family business and bought Anchor as his own interest. There is a difference between rescuing a failing company (yes Anchor was very close to shuttering), and purchasing a multitude of thriving businesses at the peak of their game. Anchor didn't 'sell out', they were rescued. They were bought by an individual looking to restore the business.
 

lump42

The Lajestic Vantrashell of Lob
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
1,079
Reaction score
647
Location
Bluegrass Region
Your research by no means news to me. Nor does not negate the fact that a small business managed to achieve financial independence against incredible odds. The failure rate of small-business, more than 1/2 do not last a full year. Of those 50% that survive, 50% will be closed by their 5th year. The remainder has a 1/3 likelihood of making it to 10 years - not exactly great odds.

For those who snub the success of a small business for "selling out" to provide lifelong financial stability for themselves (and their families), then look to their departure from the small business community as a new opportunity for more small businesses to bloom.
Selling out is inherently a bad thing. I doubt handing over the reigns of their brewery is likely any brewers dream (let alone the American dream). It is sometimes seen as the 'best' option in order to keep the brewery open. It is a capital intensive industry and if they are going to keep up with demand often they need to find more capital to expand, or increase prices to limit demand. Just because some breweries fail doesn't mean it is a bad thing. Its a sign that craft beer industry is maturing. Those that can't meet demand, fail on quality/ marketing, or overextend their business are the ones that will be weeded out or sold.

I'm not thrilled that Anchor lost it's independence of an outside alcohol industry influence, but selling to a company that has little presence and is not know for unethical business practices in the US is less of a mark against them than selling to ABI or Molson Coors. Founders is owned by a Spanish Brewery, but for this same reason the reaction was not intense.
 

shetc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
2,424
Reaction score
2,599
Here's the deal. If a brewery "succeeds" and decides to sell out, fine. But if that sellout is to a particularly bad company, InBev being the most egregious example, then I'm not giving them my money.
 

BobBailey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
649
Reaction score
198
Location
Fallon
I've said it before and will say it again. I care about quality of product and service. If I get good quality and service from a business I couldn't give a rat's posterior who owns it.

As an example, 10 Barrel in Bend, Oregon; I went in for a couple of pints and a meal shortly after they sold to AB InBev. The food, drink and service were excellent, as I had come to expect. When I asked a couple of employees if anything had changed I was told that AB dropped the full bar in favor of beer only. Every thing else remained the same.

In the several years since, I have been there a number of times and still find it to be an enjoyable experience. Not being in the habit of cutting off my nose to spite my face, I will continue to visit 10 Barrel when in the area.

I don't care for Bud, Michelob, Busch or most of the other beers produced by the various breweries they have acquired and don't buy those products. I will, however, continue to enjoy products regardless of who owns the producer.
 

shetc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
2,424
Reaction score
2,599
Sorry, InBev are dirty players and they ain't getting my money.
 

BrewnWKopperKat

"We the People" - Kid Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2017
Messages
3,175
Reaction score
2,107
Location
"North Coast" USA
As an example, 10 Barrel in Bend, Oregon; I went in for a couple of pints and a meal shortly after they sold to AB InBev. The food, drink and service were excellent, as I had come to expect. When I asked a couple of employees if anything had changed I was told that AB dropped the full bar in favor of beer only. Every thing else remained the same.

In the several years since, I have been there a number of times and still find it to be an enjoyable experience. Not being in the habit of cutting off my nose to spite my face, I will continue to visit 10 Barrel when in the area.
I had a similar experience a couple of years ago with the 10 Barrel tap room in Bend. Overall an enjoyable experience - good weather on the patio, excellent food, drink, and service. When I'm in Bend again, they are on my list to visit.
 
Last edited:

mscroggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
103
Reaction score
37
I don't care for Bud, Michelob, Busch or most of the other beers produced by the various breweries they have acquired and don't buy those products. I will, however, continue to enjoy products regardless of who owns the producer.
Therein lies the issue. You don't care as long as you get what you want. There are long term consequences to that attitude.
Google 'AB-Inbev illegal practices' and read about their indiscretions...
 

mongoose33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
8,099
Reaction score
8,006
Location
Platteville, WI
Therein lies the issue. You don't care as long as you get what you want. There are long term consequences to that attitude.
Google 'AB-Inbev illegal practices' and read about their indiscretions...
I think we pretty much understand your view on this. That's the beauty of this--you can choose to do what you want, as can others.

But if others have different views, that doesn't make them wrong. Just people with different views.
 

kh54s10

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Messages
18,741
Reaction score
5,484
Location
Edgewater
So, if you are OK with big beer buying up small breweries, you are OK with big money controlling what you are able to buy. If AB-Inbev decides to buy up 75% of the independent breweries, they can then reduce production of those to increase the sales of their other breweries. Or use their 75% to force out as many of the remaining 25% as possible. Then your choices are in the remaining 75% that the big breweries still want to produce. If they decide that they no longer want to produce the favorite craft brew you enjoy, but they now own, you are out of luck......
 

GoeHaarden

The best advice is unsolicited
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
657
Oh, I always love these threads!!!

The U.S. now has 6788 breweries open in the US, because of mounting resistance to the unscrupulous tactics of AB-Inbev.
I don't think many people sit around and think "I'm going to start a brewery to stick it to InBev who has aggressive business tactics with unlimited resources!" I think most craft breweries are started by...guess what...homebrewers with aspirations bigger than reality! That being said, you can't tell me that every craft beer you've consumed has been good. I highly doubt it, and I don't like to spend money on beer that is no good simply because it's not owned by InBev. I'd rather by a Wicked Weed, which thanks to InBev is now distributed to my area...

I doubt handing over the reigns of their brewery is likely any brewers dream (let alone the American dream)
Is everyone telling me that if InBev offered you say $3 million for your brewery with continued employment opportunity as head brewer you wouldn't take it? Get real. I'd drop the mic so fast...

Therein lies the issue. You don't care as long as you get what you want. There are long term consequences to that attitude.
Please tell me you don't own any apple products, drink starbucks, or consume any other product from a big business who tries to skate the laws!? I'm sure their is some hypocrisy in your own life...

***************

What about all the Americans who support their families with income from employment at an AB company? Go tell them you wish they got laid off or lost their job...
 

mscroggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
103
Reaction score
37
Oh, I always love these threads!!!

I don't think many people sit around and think "I'm going to start a brewery to stick it to InBev who has aggressive business tactics with unlimited resources!"
That's absurd of course. Nobody implied breweries are being started to stick it to InBev. The resistance for which I was referring is the investigations and fines by the FTC, Justice Department and other law enforcement entities. They aren't 'aggressive business tactics' they are ILLEGAL business tactics.

I haven't touched a Wicked Weed since the sale went through..
https://www.mensjournal.com/food-dr...o-ab-inbev-acquisition-of-wicked-weed-w480684
 

BobBailey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
649
Reaction score
198
Location
Fallon
Therein lies the issue. You don't care as long as you get what you want. There are long term consequences to that attitude.
Google 'AB-Inbev illegal practices' and read about their indiscretions...
I see no issue. I don't care what you think. You aren't paying my bills. I do care what I want because I'm paying for it. I have had that attitude for 70 years and have faced no consequences because of it. As long as I am paying my own way it is me who will decide who I give my business to. As I said before, you have the right to do as you please. Just don't try to foist your convoluted opinions on me.

How can you bad mouth AB-Inbev and then recommend that I use Google. Do you not know that Google can buy and sell AB-InBev any day of the week? If you want to talk about the evils of big money, I think you should do your homework .

After considering the source, I see no need to continue this conversation. Have a wonderful life if you can figure out how to do that.
 

mscroggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
103
Reaction score
37
I have had that attitude for 70 years and have faced no consequences because of it..
I meant consequences in the industry, not you personally.. Other than maybe an eventual sagging product offering from the brewery.
 

BobBailey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
649
Reaction score
198
Location
Fallon
I meant consequences in the industry, not you personally.. Other than maybe an eventual sagging product offering from the brewery.
This is what you typed: "You don't care as long as you get what you want. There are long term consequences to that attitude.:
 

GoeHaarden

The best advice is unsolicited
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
657
That's absurd of course. Nobody implied breweries are being started to stick it to InBev. The resistance for which I was referring is the investigations and fines by the FTC, Justice Department and other law enforcement entities. They aren't 'aggressive business tactics' they are ILLEGAL business tactics.

I haven't touched a Wicked Weed since the sale went through..
Illegal...schmegal. The law is fluid and interpretive my friend. It changes daily, and it isn't perfect. Automotive companies break the law constantly, do you walk to work? Assuming you work. It's hard to understand when people take the anti-InBev high horse without doing research into other consumer products, they support, made by companies with similar practices.

I have no problem supporting a company that provides 1000's of American jobs.
 

mscroggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2013
Messages
103
Reaction score
37
This is what you typed: "You don't care as long as you get what you want. There are long term consequences to that attitude.:
Yes I should have been more clear. It wasn't an attack on you personally.. It was meant to describe a common general attitude that "it doesnt matter something came from, as long as I can benefit"
 

SanPancho

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
764
Location
An Island in the Bay
Anchor actually "sold out" to an investment group in 2010, and before that, in 1965, it had "sold out" to an heir to the mega manufacturer of appliances, Fritz Maytag. Without the Maytag money, Anchor would probably have shut down, they were only producing 800 barrels of beer a year and some of it would go sour, they were having lots of problems. The infusion of capital (some inherited and some borrowed from large banks) and Maytag's desire to turn a profit is what made Anchor successful.
So selling out isn't always a bad thing.
I usually don't see Anchor products in this area, but I could probably buy a thousand different beers within an hour drive from my house.
Every year there are more breweries. Attempts by large corporate interests to increase their market share and suppress competition haven't been successful.
the investment group bought it specifically with the intent of developing it for sale to one of the big three. Maytag's purchase was to build the brand(again).

i see it as the difference between a real estate developer and a house flipper. developing takes time, money, planning, insight, and some sort of dream/vision for what you're trying to do. a flipper just sees good bones and easy to fix cosmetic stuff and dollar signs.

Maytag had a vision and a dream for the future. The Investor group just saw a private equity deal to flip. big difference.

( for what its worth, that beer is disgusting. the most hilarious thing to me is that when the equity bros took over, they had the brewers come up with like a dozen new beers. i had the unfortunate task of sampling, and they all tasted like they took steam and just added **** to it- blackberries, hops, different hops, hops and spices, lemons and hops, etc. i guess it was cheaper and easier than actually developing "new" beers. )


i guess what im saying is that you have to look at intent to know if its really "selling out" when it happens. but its often impossible to know someone's motivation. you either have to judge them on how they got to the transaction, or how they acted after the transaction. there's a brewery in LA founded specifically to become buyout target. that offends me. then there's guys like Lagunitas that just put in the decades of work and now get the recognition and capital to go to the next level. that doesnt offend me at all.

but if the beer goes to ****, then its time to reevaluate.
 

GoeHaarden

The best advice is unsolicited
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
657
I dont know why the term 'illegal' keeps getting ignored.
Again. I don't know why you think InBev is the only company doing it. Justify it how you like, but just hold yourself accountable for supporting other companies who have illegal business practices!?

Yeehaw! Ride that high horse!

C'mon bro. Keep using the imperfect law to support your argument.

While you're crying about InBev breaking stupid commerce laws, this kind of stuff remains allowed in your "perfect" legal system. Please watch the whole thing...
 

mongoose33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2015
Messages
8,099
Reaction score
8,006
Location
Platteville, WI
I dont know why the term 'illegal' keeps getting ignored.
Because those "ignoring" it are focused on whether the beer produced is something they wish to purchase. And that, in a nushell, is what free market economics is about. If Inbev or others strangle the market so that quality beer is no longer easily available, new brewers will come on the scene to provide what people want.

Yeah, it isn't always "fair." But if you're waiting for "fair," well, I think you're going to have a long wait.
 

madscientist451

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
5,352
Reaction score
3,075
Location
Bedford
t
i guess what im saying is that you have to look at intent to know if its really "selling out" when it happens. but its often impossible to know someone's motivation. you either have to judge them on how they got to the transaction, or how they acted after the transaction. there's a brewery in LA founded specifically to become buyout target. that offends me. then there's guys like Lagunitas that just put in the decades of work and now get the recognition and capital to go to the next level. that doesnt offend me at all.

but if the beer goes to poopy, then its time to reevaluate.
So its OK to "judge" a person's or corporation's business activities by how YOU PERCEIVE how they "acted" and their "intent"?
Do you want all YOUR personal business transactions judged in the same manner?
Ever buy a gas guzzling car or power boat? Take unnecessarily and expensive vacation trips? Pay too much for a large expensive house and then "unfairly" jack up the price when you sold it a few years later?
If a developer buys a tract of wooded land, chops down all the trees, builds expensive homes, adds to the tax base, provides jobs, SOMEONE will still "judge" that the ends don't justify the means because they are in some way "offended". And a house flipper is worse than a developer because he/she only "intends" to make some money?
Maytag "sold out" and made a lot of money because he wanted to retire. The investment group "sold out" for whatever reasons they have, most likely Anchor wasn't generating the profits they desired and they wanted to invest the capital in something else.
When you see beer in a retail store the ONLY REASON its there is because someone wants to make a profit off your habit of consuming alcohol. Horrible as that concept is, there's nothing you can do about it, except to homebrew more and then buy less of that nasty capitalist beer.
 

shetc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
2,424
Reaction score
2,599
InBev only got into the craft beer biz because their older heavy handed practices were not working at the local level. Same heavy handed practices are now being used via their craft beer ownership. In particular, many bars are effectively (and illegally) tied to InBev in that it's the only beer on tap. They have been successfully sued by the government numerous times over the last decade because of these practices.
 

lump42

The Lajestic Vantrashell of Lob
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
1,079
Reaction score
647
Location
Bluegrass Region
Oh, I always love these threads!!!

I don't think many people sit around and think "I'm going to start a brewery to stick it to InBev who has aggressive business tactics with unlimited resources!" I think most craft breweries are started by...guess what...homebrewers with aspirations bigger than reality! That being said, you can't tell me that every craft beer you've consumed has been good. I highly doubt it, and I don't like to spend money on beer that is no good simply because it's not owned by InBev. I'd rather by a Wicked Weed, which thanks to InBev is now distributed to my area...
The brewers in my area didn't start a brewery to solely stick it to BMC, they see it as a added benefit to becoming craftsman and becoming their own boss. Most of the breweries around here are also active in community improvement projects. They see their good fortune as an opportunity to help make others lives better. They aren't brewing to be rich. Not everyone a cares about monetary wealth.

Is everyone telling me that if InBev offered you say $3 million for your brewery with continued employment opportunity as head brewer you wouldn't take it? Get real. I'd drop the mic so fast...
That's exactly what I'm saying. If some one offered a small fortune to cross against my personal ethics, I'd turn them down.

Please tell me you don't own any apple products, drink starbucks, or consume any other product from a big business who tries to skate the laws!? I'm sure their is some hypocrisy in your own life...

***************
What about all the Americans who support their families with income from employment at an AB company? Go tell them you wish they got laid off or lost their job...
I actually don't buy apple products, never have. There Henry Ford product development has always rubbed me the wrong way. Starbucks is burnt oil. As much as possible, coffee is from a local roaster, fruits and vegetables from local farmers and local grocer. Of course, we all purchase from large national/ international companies, it does come with a global economy, but we can choose to support companies condone business in a manner that groves with your personal values.

I don't believe anyone has said that they wish ABI to shutter their doors. I'd just like the unfair, aggressive business tactics to cease.
 

GoeHaarden

The best advice is unsolicited
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
657
The brewers in my area didn't start a brewery to solely stick it to BMC, they see it as a added benefit to becoming craftsman and becoming their own boss. Most of the breweries around here are also active in community improvement projects. They see their good fortune as an opportunity to help make others lives better. They aren't brewing to be rich. Not everyone a cares about monetary wealth.
Well, I applaud those who decide to open a brewery to become they're own boss but at the same time most of them become a slave to their business. I've talked to several local brewers who have started to resent the craft because they work 100+ hrs/weeks. I'd rather not turn my hobby into work...

I think every anti-AB bus rider forgets about all the philanthropy that AB leads or is involved in. AB has kept a lot of luxuries free in St. Louis alone, and what about all the water that they ship during catastrophes!? Can you tell me they aren't involved in the community? That argument is invalidated by facts...

That's exactly what I'm saying. If some one offered a small fortune to cross against my personal ethics, I'd turn them down.
It's hard to say unless you've been presented with that option.

I don't believe anyone has said that they wish ABI to shutter their doors. I'd just like the unfair, aggressive business tactics to cease.
Business is not fair, and I will go ahead and say it: "some craft breweries make sh*tty beer and close d/t their own inadequacies." Blaming it on AB's market domination is a cop-out when others become successful in the same market. Again, life isn't fair and to think it owes you anything is quite the entitled mentality. Same goes for business...

Have we thought about maybe the tremendous craft brewery growth is sufficating itself too?
 

GoeHaarden

The best advice is unsolicited
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
657
I actually don't buy apple products, never have. There Henry Ford product development has always rubbed me the wrong way. Starbucks is burnt oil. As much as possible, coffee is from a local roaster, fruits and vegetables from local farmers and local grocer. Of course, we all purchase from large national/ international companies, it does come with a global economy, but we can choose to support companies condone business in a manner that groves with your personal values.
I'm glad you said this. My personal values are a little more humanitarian centered and the business tactics of an alcohol production company bears no weight in the face of issues we are plagued with in this world. Surely we can focus our passions towards something that actually benefits our wellbeing!? A dwindling alcohol selection is hardly something to get bent about...
 

lump42

The Lajestic Vantrashell of Lob
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
1,079
Reaction score
647
Location
Bluegrass Region
Well, I applaud those who decide to open a brewery to become they're own boss but at the same time most of them become a slave to their business. I've talked to several local brewers who have started to resent the craft because they work 100+ hrs/weeks. I'd rather not turn my hobby into work...

I think every anti-AB bus rider forgets about all the philanthropy that AB leads or is involved in. AB has kept a lot of luxuries free in St. Louis alone, and what about all the water that they ship during catastrophes!? Can you tell me they aren't involved in the community? That argument is invalidated by facts...
Business and entrepreneurship isn't for every one. They may work ridiculous hours most dedicated business people are. They either enjoy the work or the pay, but if they don't then it is up to them to change their circumstances (leave the business or change the business). I agree I don't want to ruin any more hobbies by turning them into a career. It's the same reason I didn't start a farm, and why I won't be starting a brewery.

I applaud ABI for their philanthropy, but their gifts don't negate their underhand practices. Nor Hitler really helped improved the livelihood of a lot of German's didn't really excuse his other actions.



It's hard to say unless you've been presented with that option.
I've left jobs and turned down offers that paid 2-3x my salary, because I disagreed with their business culture and ethics. I've had the option to make more money. It wasn't worth selling my soul and all my time to the company.


Business is not fair, and I will go ahead and say it: "some craft breweries make sh*tty beer and close d/t their own inadequacies." Blaming it on AB's market domination is a cop-out when others become successful in the same market. Again, life isn't fair and to think it owes you anything is quite the entitled mentality. Same goes for business...

Have we thought about maybe the tremendous craft brewery growth is sufficating itself too?
No one is blaming ABI for independent breweries from closing down due to their own production issues, poor business decisions, or bad marketing. Life isn't fair but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to make it so. Is it entitled to think we should help out our neighbors and provide a playing field that allows a chance?

Independent brewer sector isn't suffocating, it's maturing. There has been a contraction (market correction), but no economist is going to tell them that double digit growth can last forever.

I'm glad you said this. My personal values are a little more humanitarian centered and the business tactics of an alcohol production company bears no weight in the face of issues we are plagued with in this world. Surely we can focus our passions towards something that actually benefits our wellbeing!? A dwindling alcohol selection is hardly something to get bent about...
I think the issue doesn't stop with ABI, but spreads out to many international corporations that have done everything they can to squash any and all competition. Since there are a few of them with much power and so many more consumers with individually little power, it will require a large force spread out on many fronts to keep them in check. ABI is just one of many companies that needs to be checked for unfair practices.
 

GoeHaarden

The best advice is unsolicited
HBT Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
657
I applaud ABI for their philanthropy, but their gifts don't negate their underhand practices. Nor Hitler really helped improved the livelihood of a lot of German's didn't really excuse his other actions.
I think your reality might be a little skewed if you're truely making this comparison. To do so is quite ridiculous! That's apples-to-zebras my friend....

I've left jobs and turned down offers that paid 2-3x my salary, because I disagreed with their business culture and ethics. I've had the option to make more money. It wasn't worth selling my soul and all my time to the company.
Ever been offered instant retirement and financial wellbeing? Pride is a deceiving emotion. I too have left jobs paying more, quit a career, stop making money to go back to school for the pursuit of a new one that pays less. But I would retire in a heartbeat if someone offered $3 mil for my brewery...its not like they are going to use it to do harm!!

ABI is just one of many companies that needs to be checked for unfair practices.
They are constantly being checked by the numerous laws and regulations in place. They pay their fines. The law is not black and white, its grey. A lot is up for interpretation especially in the civil sector. Not to mention a law can become changed by precedent ruled on by one individual, the judge! Who may or may not have an incentive to do so...


***********

BTW, thanks for the civil debate...we're both fighting a losing battle. Lol
 
Top