Amylase Enzyme Question.....

[npl]

Hi all! I just brewed 10 gallons of my CaptainJoeJackUnballs III IPA. I hit all of my temps and expected gravities. However, BeerSmith is suggesting that I add Amylase Enzyme to my fermenter after 3 days. THIS has me confused because I've never heard of adding it to the fermenter, unless its to correct a stuck fermentation (which is not an issue for me)... So, Does anyone add Amylase Enzyme to their fermenter?

I regularly add gluco-amylase to the fermenter particularly when I am producing a pale lager or pilsner. To get a 5.5% ABV I can use just 4.5 kgs of malt. All the literature tells us that Gluco-amylase performs best at temperatures above 20C. However it still works (albeit slower) at my fermentation temp of 14C. Using Lallemand Diamond yeast I ferment for 7-8 days then rack off for a further 2 weeks before bottling. This pushes the FG right down to about 1.000, giving roughly .5% extra gravity reading without having to use and extra half kg of grain and having darker beer. In New Zealand we tend to prefer a paler, crisper drink, particularly in Summer. The resulting beer is clean and fresh. The boys all come back for more. Just try it out yourself to find out if the advice was worthwhile

 

[bracconiere]

Just try it to find out if the advice was worthwhile

it's what keeps me in a size 34x32....

 

[doug293cz]

only thing i can think of is 1.019 is kinda a high FG for a beer for my taster? and maybe alpha amylase in the fermenter would get it down to something sane like 1.012, or 1.008 or so? but don't use gluco?

If the high FG is due to limit dextrins, then amylase enzyme will not lower the FG. If the high FG is due to residual starch, or higher molecular wt dextrins (not limit dextrins) then adding amylase enzyme to the fermenter should lower the FG.

Brew on

 

[ace0005]

Once again, thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge. This really turned out to be an interesting thread.

 

[ace0005]

only thing i can think of is 1.019 is kinda a high FG for a beer for my taster? and maybe alpha amylase in the fermenter would get it down to something sane like 1.012, or 1.008 or so? but don't use gluco?

How is the gluco used? I assume it’s added at the beginning of fermentation?

 

[hawkwing]

How is the gluco used? I assume it’s added at the beginning of fermentation?

You add gluco after it’s cooled down at the start. It breaks complex sugars down to simpler sugars so easier for the yeast.

 

[hawkwing]

That said I’ve never added enzymes for making beer.

 

[bracconiere]

you can look into a beer style called Brüt IPA around here for more info on gluco....

 

[passedpawn]

you can look into a beer style called Brüt IPA around here for more info on gluco....

I would not recommend that anyone adds gluco amylase to their beer without understanding what it will do. It might take the beer far dryer than yeast will. Same goes for "Beano", which contains other aggressive enzymes that will reduce all large-chain sugars to the size that the yeast will convert them. Getting a beer down to 1.001 might seem like a good idea, but it doesn't always taste good (but it sometimes does! - depends on other things).

Alpha amalyse will not destroy your beer. In fact, alpha amylase is found in the the barley grain - it's one of the enzymes doing yeoman's work in your mash.

 

[bracconiere]

Getting a beer down to 1.001 might seem like a good idea,

i'd second that, but you're very right. It's only a 'good' thing if your counting calories!

edit: and i add you need to do the calorie counting too! there are plenty of 'lite' beer drinkers, and as far as i can tell it's like shooting roids, and just sitting on your ass for them....

 

[passedpawn]

i'd second that, but you're very right. It's only a 'good' thing if your counting calories!

I should be...

 

[hawkwing]

i'd second that, but you're very right. It's only a 'good' thing if your counting calories!

edit: and i add you need to do the calorie counting too! there are plenty of 'lite' beer drinkers, and as far as i can tell it's like shooting roids, and just sitting on your ass for them....

Perhaps water is better if your counting calories lol. I like my beer with some body and flavor.

 

[bracconiere]

Perhaps water is better if your counting calories lol.

don't go there, i've sunk so low since May to be drinking fermented sugar water.....

I should be...

no harder then balancing a checkbook.....

 

[passedpawn]

Perhaps water is better if your counting calories lol. I like my beer with some body and flavor.

https://tinyurl.com/yjctnppe
cmon lets get these embedded video problems fixed.

 

[bracconiere]

https://tinyurl.com/yjctnppe
cmon lets get these embedded video problems fixed.

i've noticed youtube is more suave since yesterday now too.....

 

[passedpawn]

I've got the music for this, been putting it off (on piano).

 

[hawkwing]

don't go there, i've sunk so low since May to be drinking fermented sugar water.....


no harder then balancing a checkbook.....

Maybe take up walking so you can drink better beer. See what your neighbors think if you do both at the same time.

 

[bracconiere]

Maybe take up walking so you can drink better beer.

lol, very overrated..the 200 calories walking for an hour, would just make me hungier and drink an extra 200 calorie beer...

 

[hawkwing]

lol, very overrated..the 200 calories walking for an hour, would just make me hungier and drink an extra 200 calorie beer...

Nah think of it as more of the few calorie difference between the beer with gluco and without.

 

[ace0005]

I should be...

As should I! But my body is not a temple…. It’s more of a beer processing plant!

 

[ace0005]

I think that at the very least, I’m going to start adding alpha amylase to my mash, and start using an iodine test to make sure my wort is as fermentable as I like to think it is.

Also, I tested the gravity today, and had a taste…. There was a sort of nutty flavor that I didn’t mind, and so far it’s pretty freakin good!

 

[doug293cz]

I think that at the very least, I’m going to start adding alpha amylase to my mash, and start using an iodine test to make sure my wort is as fermentable as I like to think it is.

Also, I tested the gravity today, and had a taste…. There was a sort of nutty flavor that I didn’t mind, and so far it’s pretty freakin good!

The iodine test does not tell you how fermentable the wort is. It only tells you if there is residual starch. Dextrins will not show up on the iodine test, and they are not fermentable. If you want to make sure you have maximum fermentability, mash low (no more than 148°F to minimize dextrins) for at least 30 minutes (you can do a higher mash step after that), continue mashing until the iodine test is negative for starch (be sure to include some grain bits in the test, as that's where most of the residual starch will be) or test the SG against the table here, and then mash for another 30 minutes to make sure the enzymes do everything they can to reduce dextrins to fermentable sugars.

Adding amylase to the mash won't help fermentability, unless the grain bill does not supply enough amylase on its own. A mash with at least 50% base malt (two row barley, pilsner, light wheat, six row barley, etc.) should have enough amylase enzymes to completely convert all of the starch.

Summary: start the mash at a low temp (to minimize residual dextrins), and mash long enough for the enzymes to complete their work.

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

The iodine test does not tell you how fermentable the wort is. It only tells you if there is residual starch. Dextrins will not show up on the iodine test, and they are not fermentable. If you want to make sure you have maximum fermentability, mash low (no more than 148°F to minimize dextrins) for at least 30 minutes (you can do a higher mash step after that), continue mashing until the iodine test is negative for starch (be sure to include some grain bits in the test, as that's where most of the residual starch will be) or test the SG against the table here, and then mash for another 30 minutes to make sure the enzymes do everything they can to reduce dextrins to fermentable sugars.

Adding amylase to the mash won't help fermentability, unless the grain bill does not supply enough amylase on its own. A mash with at least 50% base malt (two row barley, pilsner, light wheat, six row barley, etc.) should have enough amylase enzymes to completely convert all of the starch.

Summary: start the mash at a low temp (to minimize residual dextrins), and mash long enough for the enzymes to complete their work.

Brew on

love that link, i usually get about temp corrected 1.078 at 1.3 qt/lb...and dividing 78 by 90 gives me about my usual effec, plan on trying to remember it, plus the smart stuff on the left side... maybe i could improve my sparge using it..

(just the tips i need to overhear to get back to my 99 cent twelve pack!)

 

[ace0005]

The iodine test does not tell you how fermentable the wort is. It only tells you if there is residual starch. Dextrins will not show up on the iodine test, and they are not fermentable. If you want to make sure you have maximum fermentability, mash low (no more than 148°F to minimize dextrins) for at least 30 minutes (you can do a higher mash step after that), continue mashing until the iodine test is negative for starch (be sure to include some grain bits in the test, as that's where most of the residual starch will be) or test the SG against the table here, and then mash for another 30 minutes to make sure the enzymes do everything they can to reduce dextrins to fermentable sugars.

Adding amylase to the mash won't help fermentability, unless the grain bill does not supply enough amylase on its own. A mash with at least 50% base malt (two row barley, pilsner, light wheat, six row barley, etc.) should have enough amylase enzymes to completely convert all of the starch.

Summary: start the mash at a low temp (to minimize residual dextrins), and mash long enough for the enzymes to complete their work.

Brew on

Lol, just when I think I finally have this thing called brewing all figured out! . Incidentally, I was just reading all about dextrins in the mash, but the process you described makes a lot of sense.
The problem is that I keep getting great fermentation in the beginning, then it seems to slow to a snail’s pace leaving me to figure out if I’m not making good enough wort, or if I’m just impatient .
I know in the end it’s “just” beer, but I take this stuff seriously because brewing is most gonna likely going to be my retirement job!

 

[bracconiere]

retirement job!

i'd think you'd be better off thinking of it as an meat extender for your nest egg....kinda like rice, or potatoes, bread, or even noodles...

 

[doug293cz]

The problem is that I keep getting great fermentation in the beginning, then it seems to slow to a snail’s pace leaving me to figure out if I’m not making good enough wort, or if I’m just impatient

This is how fermentations usually proceed. A lag time for things to get started (can be hours, or even days), then rapid speed up to a vigorous fermentation, and then a continuous slow down of activity until it stops. You can tell when things are done by measuring the SG. When you get two identical readings at least two days apart, you are usually done.

You can judge how fermentable your wort was by comparing your apparent attenuation to the stated attenuation for the yeast you used. The formula for apparent attenuation is:

Attenuation (%) = 100% * (OG - FG) / (OG -1)​

​

If your wort has lots of crystal/caramel or roasted malts, then your attenuation will likely be less (lower fermentability) than stated for the yeast.

Brew on

 

[ace0005]

Update: I know you have all been losing sleep, wondering how this beer developed....... so you're sleepless nights are over!

Basically, the fermentation stopped, or slowed to a snail's pace after a couple of days. I made the decision to add glucoamylase to the fermenter, and the next day she was abubblin again! Today I took my final gravity, which finished at 1.000 on the button, I couldn't be happier! As an added bonus, the beer tastes great and has a nice kick at 7.3% ABV!

Thanks to all for the advice, once again it proved to be very helpful ​

 

[passedpawn]

Update: I know you have all been losing sleep, wondering how this beer developed....... so you're sleepless nights are over!

Basically, the fermentation stopped, or slowed to a snail's pace after a couple of days. I made the decision to add glucoamylase to the fermenter, and the next day she was abubblin again! Today I took my final gravity, which finished at 1.000 on the button, I couldn't be happier! As an added bonus, the beer tastes great and has a nice kick at 7.3% ABV!

Thanks to all for the advice, once again it proved to be very helpful ​

An IPA that ended at 1.000? Not a surprise if you added gluco, but I wonder about the quality of the beer. That (literally) is the same density as water.

Obviously, the one thing that matters is that YOU like it.

 

[day_trippr]

Well there was that Brut IPA thing where a 1.000 FG would on target.
Was never my bag...and the style never gained much traction before fading out...

Cheers!

 

[cactusgarrett]

An IPA that ended at 1.000? Not a surprise if you added gluco, but I wonder about the quality of the beer.

I actually added enzyme (in the fermenter) to a Cold IPA when (at 1.015) I didn't get the attenuation I did when I made test batches (1.005). It finished at 0.997 and 9.2% ABV. I was very worried about it tasting like rocket fuel and super thin/flabby, but it was had neither characteristic. Re: the body, I think the greater amount of alcohol actually helped with this, since the OG was around 1.067. Now, if it started lower and had lower ABV, I'm positive it would have been a lot flabbier.