All of my beers are bad.

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alexipa

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I feel like I've tried almost everything, but I can't seem to brew a beer that doesn't have a bitter, thin, harsh taste. Hoping someone can give me some more ideas.

I brew with an Anvil Foundry system (with recirc) and ferment in Anvil stainless buckets. I've followed a few recipes here that get fantastic reviews, including an amber and a stout (both turned out bitter and just bad). I clean and sanitize everything the beer touches every time I brew. I've tried tap water, tap water with campden tablet, and bottled spring water. I've tried all kinds of yeasts, with and without a starter, even trying Kviek! I bought a chest freezer to control ferm temps. I constantly check the gravity while fermenting and each time the yeast does great. When I try the samples, they always taste horrible.

The only thing I can think of is that the mash isn't going well... my BH efficiency is usually around 60% according to beersmith. Next brew I'm planning to use my old 3-tier system (coolers).

I'm pretty desperate. I've reread all the books on brewing I have and am now reading Water: A Comprehensive Guide for Brewers (Brewing Elements): Palmer, John J., Kaminski, Colin: 9780937381991: Amazon.com: Books . I'm willing to try or buy basically anything to brew good beer.

HELP
 
tannins? is the ph get above 5.6, or the S.G. below 1.010, or to a lesser extent the temp too high.

but i'd try a lower sparge temp. if that applies to an anvil?
 
Not sure if it is a water issue but I was able to get the water analysis report for the bottled spring water I buy from the bottling company. This allows me to make the easy water adjustments usually with some cheap gypsum and calcium chloride which has improved my beer. On the other hand, home brewing seems fairly foolproof for me. I don't think I have ever made a beer that I would call "bad.".
 
Along with the water and crush hows your mashing temp? Does it hold temp good ?

Do you have a pic of your crush ?
That system you should be getting good efficiency , much better then 60.

Water plays a big part. Get some RO water , gypsum, calcium chloride and lactic acid . Brew a beer and see if it fixes your issues .

I only take a hydrometer check once and its right before I keg .
 
I just moved to an all in one (Brewzilla 65L) and finally had a good day with it.

Crush is definitely something to look at, do you have your own mill? Also, from my own experience now I got with a thinner mash (2.0 qt/pound). This helped with my efficiency as well.

If you're using tap water you definitely need a water report...as said above get some RO add a few brewing salts...I do the same as @Jag75 a few salts and beers come out fantastic.
 
Sammy86 said:
I just moved to an all in one (Brewzilla 65L) and finally had a good day with it.

Crush is definitely something to look at, do you have your own mill? Also, from my own experience now I got with a thinner mash (2.0 qt/pound). This helped with my efficiency as well.

If you're using tap water you definitely need a water report...as said above get some RO add a few brewing salts...I do the same as @Jag75 a few salts and beers come out fantastic.
Click to expand...

@Sammy86 Can you elaborate on exactly what salts and in what quantity you're adding to your RO water? Water chemistry is the last brewing frontier for me, I have a hard time comprehending it. I haven't had any issues, but there's always new levels to achieve. I use RO water to brew with as well.
 
ArizonaGoalie said:
@Sammy86 Can you elaborate on exactly what salts and in what quantity you're adding to your RO water? Water chemistry is the last brewing frontier for me, I have a hard time comprehending it. I haven't had any issues, but there's always new levels to achieve. I use RO water to brew with as well.
Click to expand...

I use Brun' Water for all my water calculations. I choose a basic profile not one based on a place like Burton for example.

The last brew I did I used Lager profile and played around with the epsom salt, gypsum and calcium chloride until i hit green in the excel sheet.

I'm also brewing 11 gallon batches and don't do anything to the sparge water. It's all based on the style of beer and if i add acid malt or lactic acid.
 
Maybe you should go back to basics. Try brewing a kit beer like Muntons. It it turns out bad, then there is probably something fundamentally wrong with your water or equipment. If it turns out good, then at least you know it is not the water or some kind of microbes in your equipment.

Just a thought, clearly you are a more experienced brewer than I.
 
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Wow, thanks for all the responses. In response:

I'm not overly hopping, perhaps even under hopping for the styles. I haven't tweaked my grain crush at all, this is something I'll definitely look at. I've been using the mill at the local homebrew store, which is an excellent store but I probably shouldn't blindly trust it. I haven't tested the actual pH of the mash but I'd like to try this as well. Tannins/astringency sounds likely for the flavor I'm tasting actually. My mash temp stays pretty darn consistent but I wonder if my thermometer is off... I've been mostly trusting the internal foundry reading.

If the grain crush is the culprit would it be because it's too fine? To the other comment, I wonder why my efficiency would be so low. That leads me to believe that maybe it's a crush AND temperature issue perhaps?

I do think my water could use improving but from what I've read it shouldn't cause such noticeable issues in the beer. I know others in the area that brew with the same spring water (eldorado) with good results. I'm still looking to improve here but I don't think it's the main culprit.

I made decent beer with my last system (coolers), never amazing. I entered a couple competitions and placed a couple times.
 
If your water is the same as when you made good beer on the tier system, then your water is ok.
As for as the crush, you want it finer for your system. If the crush is too course, it will be dificult to extract all your sugars.
 
alexipa said:
Tannins/astringency sounds likely for the flavor I'm tasting actually.
Click to expand...
Is this your system, 6.5 gallon?
https://www.anvilbrewing.com/-p/anv-foundry-6.5.htm120V or 240V?

Technically, for brewing purposes, this is considered a BIAB(asket) system.
This typically means full volume mashes, no sparging. Or only a small sparge.

Since you're using mash recirculation, the grain cannot be too finely milled, or it will plug up. That's different from using a mesh bag and no recirculation where the grist can be milled to almost dust.
Either way should give you great efficiency. And perhaps a few extra points when performing a (small) sparge.
 
When you finished the sparge...
by any chance you squeeze or press your mash to extract the most liquid you can .....
That can spoil the taste of the beer and bring bitterness....
Just adding another theory lol
 
Toto's said:
When you finished the sparge...
by any chance you squeeze or press your mash to extract the most liquid you can .....
That can spoil the taste of the beer and bring bitterness....
Just adding another theory lol
Click to expand...
Why do you ask this? It has been proven that squeezing or pressing the liquid out of BIAB mashes doesn’t create the problems you’re implying.
 
Toto's said:
Well it looks like i am not up to date by any chance you have any link if not no worry
:)
Click to expand...
Toto's said:
by any chance you squeeze or press your mash to extract the most liquid you can .....
That can spoil the taste of the beer and bring bitterness....
Click to expand...

Why and how can squeezing the mash bring bitterness? If you're thinking of extracting tannins, they can cause astringency, not bitterness. They can be confused, but once you know which is which (suck on a spent teabag), it's easier to troubleshoot.

Now tannins can get extracted when sparging at too high a pH. Such as when using (sparge) water that has a high Residual Alkalinity (RA). By either using softer water and/or adding some acid you can make sure the sparge pH remains under 5.8. Use a brewing water calculator to calculate how much of which acid to use.
 
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IslandLizard said:
pH remains under 5.8.
Click to expand...


guess i'm out of date too, i thought it was 5.6? and when i asked the brew pub owner about my 'problem' and he told me to lower my sparge temp to 160f, i described it as yeasty, not bitter, or astringent. he seemed to know what it was off the bat.
 
Yes indeed i have been reading since ...
Well at this point i am wondering if i shouldn't use my juice extractor 😅😅 to get the maximum of my worth!!!
Thanks a lot for the links.
 
Toto's said:
at this point i am wondering if i shouldn't use my juice extractor 😅😅 to get the maximum of my worth!!!
Click to expand...
I know you said it jokingly, but you don't want to beat air into your wort at that point. But you should when ready to pitch yeast!
After that, your beer should not have contact with air (oxygen) ever again, and should be avoided as much as possible.
 
The thing that lept out to me from your descriptions was " I constantly check the gravity while fermenting and each time the yeast does great. When I try the samples, they always taste horrible.' How are you taking these samples? Are you introducing air (oxygen) or infection to your batch? The only time gravity makes a difference is at the start and the finish. If you see fermentation activity, that is enough of a confirmation that you yeast is working. And taste only matters after you keg.

I don't see your recipe and I'm not sure what style you are brewing, but if you want to improve, take good notes. I've not seen a sufficiently detailed description of your process to think you already are, but please SHARE them if you do! That is the best way to get help here. For example, you say that you know your water profile but did not state what it was or how you adjusted it. Quantities and measurement MATTER! And simplify. You may brew a plethora of styles, but please focus on one at time. Once you get that right, move to the next one.
 
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alexipa said:
Anvil Foundry system (with recirc)
Click to expand...

Just checked out your brewing rig. It's awesome looking and if functioning correctly is definitely not your problem. Personally I would use a brew bag inside the inner basket for a clearer wort, and be a drip not a squeeze kind of brewer.

As for your brew problem a list of potential causes is one thing, but having your brewing specs would allow an informed feedback. Please share your numbers.
 
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I use the Grainfather. Very similar system. I added a false bottom which really helped . Imo there's no need to ditch the basket for a bag. I'm in the 80's efficiency wise.

You might try stirring about 4 times during your mash to help . If your temp of mash is holding correct then your crush is the reason for low efficiency.
 
I read this post this morning and went to my Palmer book for some reading after. I came across this which is what everyone seems to be telling you. Just figured I’d toss it in.
image.jpg
 
Lets all take a break and AlexIPA write out exactly what your recipe and process is. So I'll do this so you understand what you need to tell us.
I put 10-12 gallons of local tap water into my HLT and drop in a half campden tablet to drop the chlorine out, and turn on the heat. My tap water is roughly pH 7.7, .14 ppm fluoride, 4 ppm CL2 (disinfectant), Somewhere between 9 and 35 Chloride, hardness 110-500, Sodium 17-75, Sulfate 20-85. I find all of that in the local yearly water report. I'll adjust my water with some Phosphoric or Citric acid to drop the pH, and add other chemicals as I've figured out using Bru'n Water spreadsheet. Check the pH again.
I crush my grain in my mill, .0.36 gap,
Grain goes in my Mash tun (SS keggle). When the water gets up to temp (say 150 mash) I pump in a few gallons (1 quart per pound of grain usually), recheck the mash temp in about 5 min. 10 minutes I pull a sample wort and cool it to check the mash ph. depending on the beer I'm aiming for 5.4-5.2. Maybe add a little more acid to drop the pH.
Watch the temps and get my recirculation going with the pump valved down so it doesn't compact the grain bed. I can then heat the Mash tun if I need to to maintain temps or go to another mash step.
Meanwhile I'm heating more water. That goes in to raise the mash to 170F.
And I start pumping out the wort to the boil kettle slowly. The boil kettle typically already has the first hops in it. As soon as I have a gallon or so in the boil kettle I'll fire up that burner and get it working toward a boil. Depending on the size of the brew I'll fly spare or batch sparge. pump all the wort into the brew kettle. I'm usually brewing 10 gallon batches and will aim for 11 gallons at the start of the boil.
Then its just watch the boil, add hops and watch the clock.
Put the wort chiller in, cool the beer, and transfer it to a carboy. Get my yeast starter (2 x 1.5 liter starters of ~1.040 LME that were started the day before). I put the carboy on a couple layers of towel and with a santized hand over the top shake the crap out of the carboy to oxygenate the beer. Get the airlock in it and set it at the back of my 2/3 in ground garage to ferment. Then go clean up EVERYTHING with Dawn dish soap, sometimes I use PBW, then follow that with Dawn soapy water. Rinse everything well with my garden hose and I store everything upside down in my garage. . My spent grain gets composted.
|
OK, Now your turn.
 
Last edited:
alexipa said:
Wow, thanks for all the responses. In response:

I'm not overly hopping, perhaps even under hopping for the styles. I haven't tweaked my grain crush at all, this is something I'll definitely look at. I've been using the mill at the local homebrew store, which is an excellent store but I probably shouldn't blindly trust it. I haven't tested the actual pH of the mash but I'd like to try this as well. Tannins/astringency sounds likely for the flavor I'm tasting actually. My mash temp stays pretty darn consistent but I wonder if my thermometer is off... I've been mostly trusting the internal foundry reading.

If the grain crush is the culprit would it be because it's too fine? To the other comment, I wonder why my efficiency would be so low. That leads me to believe that maybe it's a crush AND temperature issue perhaps?

I do think my water could use improving but from what I've read it shouldn't cause such noticeable issues in the beer. I know others in the area that brew with the same spring water (eldorado) with good results. I'm still looking to improve here but I don't think it's the main culprit.

I made decent beer with my last system (coolers), never amazing. I entered a couple competitions and placed a couple times.
Click to expand...

If you can start with soft water with little mineral content try this

If you use bottled water this method should work (just check the mineral content on the water to make sure its soft). If you want to use your local water carefully check your local water report or send in a sample to Ward Labs for analysis. Bottled water or reverse osmosis would be a surer starting point though.

Below is a suggestion if you want to just keep it simple without PH meters and brewing software. Using a water calculator and brewing software would be more precise and allow you to dial stuff in better for different styles. However, I had good experience for many years before I started using water calculators with this method. I stuck to mainly lighter beers and as dark as brown beers, but avoided very dark beers like stout. This worked fine and I even took home some ribbons at brewing competitions including an american barley wine.

Try brewing a beer with a lighter grain bill. Maybe start with a Blonde Ale with some pilsner malts that isn't heavily hopped early in the boil. Darker malts are much trickier and less forgiving if you don't get the PH right (this typically requires adding baking soda or some other salt with bicarbonate to raise the mash PH). You definitely need a PH meter for darker beers if you want to get them right.

For a lighter beer I think you can get away more easily without a PH meter and water calculator. If you are starting with soft water it's pretty easy to hit an acceptable PH range. Just use a touch of acid malt (maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of a pound per 5 gallon batch). If you have crystal malt in the mash add less acid malt. If you are brewing a hoppier beer then add 1 tsp gypsum and .5 tsp cacl (maltier beer skip the gypsum, balanced beers use equal amounts each). As you get more advanced in brewing then start experimenting with upping the salts and using software like Bru'n Water.
 
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Newtobrewing85 said:
I read this post this morning and went to my Palmer book for some reading after. I came across this which is what everyone seems to be telling you. [...]
Click to expand...
That's just steeping some malt for flavor and color, to which malt extract will be added.

Mind, the OP is brewing all grain, mashing a whole load of base malt and other grain that provide all the sugars, color, and flavor that are needed. No malt extract is used.
 
IslandLizard said:
That's just steeping some malt for flavor and color, to which malt extract will be added.

Mind, the OP is brewing all grain, mashing a whole load of base malt and other grain that provide all the sugars, color, and flavor that are needed. No malt extract is used.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that’s true. I just read it and thought it mildly relatable to the topic at hand with the temperature comments and squeezing the bags. I’ll let the smart people tell him what he’s doing wrong.
 
Newtobrewing85 said:
Yeah, that’s true. I just read it and thought it mildly relatable to the topic at hand with the temperature comments and squeezing the bags. I’ll let the smart people tell him what he’s doing wrong.
Click to expand...
That's from the beginning brewer's section, a first brew, well before water chemistry is addressed. I think Palmer is discouraging squeezing and oversteeping (too long or too high temps) there, since the water composition is generally unknown, to minimize the risk of extracting tannins and creating more trub.

From what I understand, as long as the steeping water's pH remains under 5.8 while steeping the bag, you can steep or squeeze it as much as you like, tannins should not be extracted. By squeezing you may release some more dust, not-so-soluble fiber, and such, giving extra cloudiness that's gonna settle out as trub in the end, either in the kettle and/or in the fermenter. It won't harm your beer.
 
I have two successful batches under my belt. I use an 8 gallon boil kettle with propane burner and ferment in a 5 gallon carboy. Both brews were extract kits and I have one more extract kit to brew before attempting all grain. Using extract kits gave me experience with boiling wort, fermenting, and bottling. I've learned those techniques so I'm ready to tackle all grain.
 

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