All grain help needed

[GkF]

Hi all and merry Christmas too everyone

I have been out of the hobby for about 25 years but after a recent goggle search my mind was blown.
I had no idea this was so big now
I jumped right in but have a small issue. When I taste after bottling in aprox 3 weeks the beer taste perfect but is very watery

Unlike bought beer that has more texture
What is the key to that I can do?

 

[FromZwolle]

a few things that would help would be to list the recipe, mash temps, yeast strain, and fermentation temps.

 

[GkF]

Thank you sorry I did not mention that

Recipe is lager mash temp is 158f yeast is unknown ferm temp is around 70 or 72 f
Also I fill my 10 gal water cooler with about 9 gal of water if this is ok
I boil with a electric element inside and end with about 6 gal

 

[brewdude88]

How can you use un-known yeast but know it's a lager?

We need some specifics from the recipe (grain bill, gravity at pitching, final gravity, etc) without that information, we can't make anymore than a wild guess.

 

[RM-MN]

I jumped right in but have a small issue. When I taste after bottling in aprox 3 weeks the beer taste perfect but is very watery

It takes some time for beer to carbonate and condition and that time depends a lot on the temperature. The 3 weeks you mention is usually sufficient but if you store the bottles in a cooler (less than 70F.) it may take longer and as that storage/conditioning temperature goes down the time it take goes up.

 

[GkF]

How can you use un-known yeast but know it's a lager?

We need some specifics from the recipe (grain bill, gravity at pitching, final gravity, etc) without that information, we can't make anymore than a wild guess.

Sorry but I don't have a kit right now after Xmas I will be ordering another. The yeast is what ever is supplied when I buy a kit. As in the grain the yeast and hops. I just make it as the build sheet shows and ferment for 3 weeks or sometime 1 month. I never checked the gravity

I use dark plastic bottles and leave alone for 3 or so weeks in a dark area

So I really should be getting a gravity tester and check right?
Thanks for your help guys

 

[GkF]

Guys I just found a old package from my last kit and yeast is mangrove jacks m44

 

[MikeCo]

If it tastes watery it may be that you used too much water in the mash or for sparge water giving you a pre-boil gravity that was lower than planned. As others said, more detail is needed on the process. Did you sparge, and if so what method, and how much water did you use?

 

[GkF]

Thank you for your thoughts
You may be on to the issue as I don't add any water after I drain after soaking the mash for 1 hour. I thought the right way to do it was allow enough water after the soak with 10 gallons and it yeilds aprox 7.5 or so and then after the boil I get down to aprox 6 gallons
So with all this what is the proper amount of water to start with?

Also the past kits I have brewed were with rodi water filtered is it better to use that or tap water?

 

[MikeCo]

You are describing a no-sparge method, which is a fine way to do it, but mash efficiency will be lower than if you sparged. You can make up for this by adding more grain. It also helps to stir the mash a few times during the 1 hour rest. To calculate the amount of water needed for a batch, you need to start with the total grain weight and desired batch size, then make an estimate of how much water the grain will absorb and your mash efficiency. I use BeerSmith software to calculate my volumes. I think Brewer's Friend has some free tools you can use.

Another factor in mash efficiency is the fineness of the grain crush. If the grain was crushed by the homebrew shop that sold you the ingredients, it's probably ok.

 

[GkF]

Mike thank you brother

I am in Canada and here the kit I get looks like it's full not crushed grain with all parts sealed in a vaccum sealed bag

Mostly 3 types of hops
now that I know what to ask I will goggle for a calculator
so I need the weight of the grain right and the 5 gallons for the fermenter right.
how do you guys grind your grain?

 

[MikeCo]

For a 5 gallon batch, 9 gallons of water seems a bit high. I do brew in a bag for 5.5 gallon batches, which is also a no-sparge method, and I usually start with around 7.5 to 8 gallons. This calculator may help. You can start with the default values for grain absorption, boil-off, trub losses, etc until you know your own system.
https://biabcalculator.com/
I use an inexpensive 2-roller grain mill called the cereal killer. Can the place that sells the kit crush the grain for you? How did you crush the grain on the batch you brewed?

 

[GkF]

I have never crushed any as I knew nothing about it all I did was just throw it in and stir
So this is a very good teaching subject
I goggle the calculator and this tells me first water is 3.3 gal and sparge should be 3. 8 gal

 

[MikeCo]

Order your grain from a place that will crush it for you, and remember to specify that you want it crushed. Then you don't need to buy a grain mill for now.

If you choose to do a batch sparge, 3.3 and 3.8 sounds normal for a 5 gallon batch of moderate gravity. Mash with at least 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain.

 

[GkF]

Mike your help is fantastic
Today I learn a very interesting way to brew.
I just ordered 2 kits of beer and asked them to be crush.
About 2 weeks to get them and I will lot you know
Can wait to try this as I am sure it was my problem.
Thank you again

 

[MikeCo]

Great, I hope your next brews go well! The kits should have instructions that tell you how much water to use for mash and sparge, and for the overall process. Follow them closely, and along with crushed grain, your beer should be good.

 

[jerrylotto]

I'm surprised nobody picked up on water profile as a possible way to impact mouth feel. Watery is not the same thing as weak. What is your water source, salt profile, and how are you treating it (salts, acids, campden additions)? I do see a mention earlier of "rodi water" - is that reverse osmosis purified or divining rod located? That said, it is probably less significant than a proper crush but it could also be an important factor.

 

[RM-MN]

Mike your help is fantastic
Today I learn a very interesting way to brew.
I just ordered 2 kits of beer and asked them to be crush.
About 2 weeks to get them and I will lot you know
Can wait to try this as I am sure it was my problem.
Thank you again

It wouldn't surprise me if you got grain that was crushed a little coarser than what would give you the best efficiency. Try one kit just as you get it with your expected hour long mash, then do the second one but with a 90 minute mash and see if there is a difference in the mash efficiency. Don't be too concerned about losing heat during that extended mash but do insulate your mash tun. Even a cooler will lose heat but will be less if you can throw a towel or blanket over it.

If your longer mash gets you a higher gravity wort consider getting a grain mill and do your own milling. Set the mill to the thickness of a credit card and see how it goes. If you have no trouble draining the tun, try setting the mill a little tighter.

Also consider buying a Corona style mill and going to BIAB instead of the conventional mash tun. With the bag to contain the grains you can use a much finer milling which will get you a better efficiency.

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

add malt extract or dried malt extract one kilo per brew - for more body and more strength...........

 

[GkF]

Thanks guys for your help
Yes rodi is reverse osmosis as I use for reef tank use and make 0 tds drinking water.

 

[jerrylotto]

OK - so starting with ro water (or di) you have a good known base to work with. Download a tool like Bru'nwater <Download Bru'n Water> or use an online tool like the one at Brewer's Friend <Brewing Water Chemistry Calculator - Brewer's Friend> to figure out quantity and type of salts to add to get a good mash profile and pH for your style and recipe. A pH and TDS meter come in pretty handy but you can still come pretty close to a good start if you do the calculations and weigh things carefully. Ideally, you want to have gypsum, Epsom salt, calcium chloride and sodium chloride (table salt), baking soda, and either lactic or phosphoric acid on hand. You don't need much of these things.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

With distilled (or RO) water, Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water – Bertus Brewery (which could be viewed as a condensed version of A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer) is also an option.

 

[GkF]

Guys I was surprised today that my 2 kits arrived. Iwas home early from work today and took a few hours to brew up one kit.
I followed a online calculator for the water and arrived at 3.5 gal first and 4 gal for sparge. I left first in the cooler for the 90 mins and when done and ready to boil I could see already that it was about 10 times better and the smell was really beer like.
I chilled down to about 72 deg and this time when I added yeast within 20 mins the ferminator was burping away.
Before it would take 2 days to start.
How after a few hours the ferminator is at 74 degs is that temp ok?

 

[FromZwolle]

most ale yeasts will give you better flavor a bit cooler than that. if you have the ability to keep it around 65F, that would be much better.

 

[MikeCo]

What style of beer are you brewing, and what yeast strain are you using? The yeast packet should state its temperature range. In general, higher temperatures for ale yeasts will result in more flavors/character from the yeast, which can be good or bad depending on what you want. Lower temperatures will usually result in cleaner tasting beer which focuses on the malt and hops.

 

[GkF]

Mike the 2 kits I just received are canada pale ale. The yeast says to ferment at 68 to 74 range

 

[MikeCo]

74 seems a bit high for a pale ale to me. I would try to keep it in the mid to upper 60s next time, but I think your beer will be fine as long as you don't let it get any warmer. If possible, keep the temperature stable as the fermentation activiity slows. Many yeast strains can stall if cooled down during fermentation.

 

[GkF]

Thanks guys
I move my fermenter to a cooler room and had been in there now for 4 hours with the temp now at 70 f
By tomorrow it should be down to 66 or so

 

[GkF]

Over the weekend I was ready to bottle. On Sunday I did and now the wait is on

 

[Senza]

Let us know, how it turns out. The waiting after botteling is damn hard, but well worth it in the end.

Cheers!

 

[GkF]

Hey guys thank you all for setting me straight on my adventure in home brew.
Just tried the first beer and what an improvement in texture look and taste. Very enjoyable brew.
Just let it set for 3 weeks and it is fantastic and the best I have ever made.

 

[MikeCo]

That’s great news! Enjoy the beer and welcome back to the hobby.

 

[bracconiere]

 

[GkF]

That’s great news! Enjoy the beer and welcome back to the hobby.

Mike your help has been a ray of sunshine
You were the most influential one to step up . You were dead on the cause and right on the remedy.
All of my sucess is directly due to the steps you mentioned .
Thank you sir

 

[GkF]

Guys Tonite I am drinking from my second batch since I was told what I was doing wrong . First batch was a great improvement and now the second is 10 times better.
I kept the same brew kit so results could easy be tasted and now it so good and normal beer texture and flavor .
I made a little change to this one with a little chopped orange peelings. This has a total change in the flavor
I love the taste as it seems to make it even more beer flavor I can't taste the orange at all but it just seems to overall add a kick to it