All Beers-Lagers & Ales

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

d_striker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
324
Reaction score
13
Location
CO Springs
We've all been in this game long enough to have heard over and over that all beers are either ales or lagers. Saccharomyces cerevisiae or Saccharomyces pastorianus (or uvarum depending who you talk to.)

More and more beers are being fermented with 100% Brettanomyces. These beers aren't really ale or lager, so what would you call them?
 
Is the designation of lager or ale more dependent on the strain of yeast used to ferment them or on whether they are top or bottom fermenting yeast?
 
It's in the same Genus as Saccharomyces cerevisiae, so my guess is that it's closer to an ale than a lager. From this I'd also assume that it's top fermenting and prefers warmer temperatures.
 
Is the designation of lager or ale more dependent on the strain of yeast used to ferment them or on whether they are top or bottom fermenting yeast?



Lagers are generally bottom fermenting and ales are generally top fermenting. Lager yeast is Saccharomyces pastorianus and ales are Saccharomyces cerevisiae.
 
It's in the same Genus as Saccharomyces cerevisiae, so my guess is that it's closer to an ale than a lager. From this I'd also assume that it's top fermenting and prefers warmer temperatures.

Not sure I'm following. Saccharomyces is the genus. Species is cerevisiae or pastorianus.

Brettanomyces is the genus. Lambicus, bruxellis, etc. is the species.

Brett and saccharomyces are of the same kingdom, phylum, subphylum, class, and order, but it ends there.
 
This is an awesome question. I'd love to here a panel on this from some of the pros some day as these beers are so popular now. Right now all they're classified as to my knowledge are "wild" beers or similar names. It's a shame because "wild" is vague as there are many different strains of yeasts and bacterium that make "wild" beers.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
We've all been in this game long enough to have heard over and over that all beers are either ales or lagers. Saccharomyces cerevisiae or Saccharomyces pastorianus (or uvarum depending who you talk to.)

More and more beers are being fermented with 100% Brettanomyces. These beers aren't really ale or lager, so what would you call them?

The distinguishing difference between a lager strain and an ale strain is that a lager strain can ferment melibiose (galactose+glucose) and an ale strain cannot....that's it.

A 100% Brett beer is neither a lager or an ale...it's infected :) (humor there)

Not sure how Brett handles melibiose
 
The distinguishing difference between a lager strain and an ale strain is that a lager strain can ferment melibiose (galactose+glucose) and an ale strain cannot....that's it.

A 100% Brett beer is neither a lager or an ale...it's infected :) (humor there)

Not sure how Brett handles melibiose

Brett takes TG down so low, I wonder if it is able to consume melibiose as well.

My point of this thread is that the statement that all beers are lagers or ales is incorrect.
 
What about the BJCP category "hybrid beers"?

I don't think anyone I know is so rigid to state that all beers are either lagers or ales. Some are wild beers, some are hybrids, some are ales that are lagered, etc.
 
Different countries have different traditions when it comes to categorizing their beers. Here in the U.S. we seem to have more or less adopted the taxonomic designation of lagers vs. ales. In some other parts of the world, it's whether the yeast is top- or bottom-fermenting (which is more strain-dependent), or what brewing process is being used. In Britain, it is my understanding that most people, at least historically, would distinguish an ale from, say, stouts and porters, and not group them together under the umbrella term of "ale".

I have no idea what standard the BJCP used to designate some beers as hybrids. Some, like Koelsch and Alt, are top-fermented beers that tend to be cold conditioned, but a blonde ale is usually just a straight ale. A cream ale may or may not be cold conditioned. A Cal Common is a lager fermented about 5-10 degrees warmer than is typical. Thankfully, the 2014 revisions, if accepted, get rid of the weird hybrid categories.

Where do Brett beers and sours fit in? Most people seem to refer to them as ales, probably in referring to the relative similarity in production between ales and these "wild" beers compared to lagers - they tend to be fermented warm and are usually conditioned cool, not cold. Going by taxonomy, Brett and sour beers should have their own names... such as Brett and Sour beer.
 
Going by taxonomy, Brett and sour beers should have their own names... such as Brett and Sour beer.

Agreed. There's a lot of confusion in the beer community about Brett beers vs sour beers because of the ambiguity.

I come across a lot of people that think all Brett beers are sour which is not necessarily true. Also, I don't really consider a lacto soured beer such as Berliner Weise to be a "wild" beer but maybe that's just me.
 
Traditionally ale would have been the relatively less hopped stuff (pale ale, mild ale, stock ale, etc.) and beer the heavily hopped stuff (porter, pale stout, brown stout, etc.). Lager is a more recent development. I often get a pint of ale and somebody drinking lager tells me they wouldn't drink it because "they don't like beer", adding to the confusion.
 
Back
Top