Added MSG trouble?

[caseymac91]

I made a 5 gallon test batch of cider, and along with my usual flavorings I added MSG. Yes I know it's not necessarily healthy, but I like to experiment. It's been aging in the bottles for about a month now. I did a search to see if anyone else has tried flavoring brews with MSG, and found something quite disturbing. A few websites claim that during fermentation the yeast turn MSG into GHB, a narcotic sedative. Can anyone with background in science tell me if this is true? I would rather not drink "date rape cider".

 

[Warthaug]

Its one of those things that is a theoretical possibility, but doesn't happen to any meaningful extent in reality. In fact, yeast naturally contain a fair bit of MSG - it is a biological intermediary in the usage of glutamic acid (MSG is simply a salt for of glutamic acid - an amino acid found in proteins).

I other words, if it were to be an issue it would happen all the time, as a result of normal amino acid biology in yeast.

As for the 'theoretical' pathway, it relies on an enzyme called glutamate decarboxylate, which converts glutamate into GABA, a precursor of GHB. In humans GABA is a neutrotransmitter; in yeast, GABA is a metabolic intermediary which is rapidly converted into succinate, and then is used to generate energy. It never leaves the cell, so GHB production is negligible. But, in theory, lots of yeast lysis could put GABA into the wort, which could then react with nitrates, go through another reaction or three, to give GHB. Its unlikely, and even under "wort-case" scenarios, would be unlikely to to produce significant amounts of GHB.

As for the MSG you added, I don't know if much will be left. To yeast its just an amino acid - fit to turn into proteins or energy. As in, its food...

Bryan

 

[Warthaug]

PS: And since we're on the topic of MSG, its worth pointing out that there is no scientifically credible basis for the claims it is toxic; indeed, in tests, humans have been fed grams of the stuff (in foods, its generally present in 1/1000th that amount) with no side-effects.

At the end of the day, MSG is a naturally occurring substance, our bodies make it and use it, as do most other forms of life. And, for the fod snobs out there, glutamate is the "fifth" flavour - umami.

Bryan

 

[caseymac91]

Glad to hear I don't have to pitch my batch. Here is a link to the website that had me concerned, I don't understand the science behind it. Some people reported blackouts, scary!

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...der-with-Apple-Juice-and-Monosodium-Glutamate

 

[butterpants]

I hope to hell you label this brew DATE RAPE CIDER.... because that's the funniest thing I've heard all week

 

[caseymac91]

I just might call it that, after trying a glass. The best way to describe the feeling is unusually happy and clearheaded. I also feel tipsy as if I had three. Has me worried..

 

[Warthaug]

Glad to hear I don't have to pitch my batch. Here is a link to the website that had me concerned, I don't understand the science behind it. Some people reported blackouts, scary!

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...der-with-Apple-Juice-and-Monosodium-Glutamate

If you follow the links you'll find that it all boils down to a single paper in the scientific literature which found GBH in minute quantities in wine, as a product of natural fermentation. Everything else is supposition on the part of the posters - i.e. that adding MSG should increase that. Given that MSG is present in high levels (naturally) in corn, and bud/molsons (millers for those in the US)/coors beers lack it, I somehow doubt adding it yourself would change the result. Its not like purified MSG is any different from the stuff that occurs naturally - indeed, the stuff you buy in the spice isle is made from bacteria or plants.

Bryan

 

[caseymac91]

Hopefully just a placebo affect than.